Jump to content

I thought I was dealing with constipation now I am not sure


TonySydney

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

Hi Everyone, I did a 90% water change on Monday and while my three telescope butterfly tails were in the bucket during the water change I fed them one defrosted cube of blood worms. Everything seemed fine when I returned them to their cleaned tank. After a little while I noticed one fish sitting on the bottom of the tanked moving his mouth a lot like he was panting.

 

I left him in the tank and did not feed the fish for 24 hours. He did not improve so I put him in a large bucket of water 3.7 US gallons and put in 1.25 teaspoons of Epson Salts. He did not improve after 24 hours so i replaced half the water in the bucket with fresh treated water and added another teaspoon of Epson Salts.

 

He is still sitting on the bottom moving his mouth a lot but has not pooped. Should I continue this treatment or am I mistaken and it is not constipation?

 

Before any one asks the tank water did not show any Ammonia or Nitrite but maybe 5-10ppm of Nitrate - hard to tell. I am about to do another water change in the main tank tonight and will refresh the water in the bucket with more Epson Salts unless I hear otherwise from this forum.

 

Thanks for reading my post - Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 77
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

Please put the fish in clean water immediately. That level of Epsom is too high of a concentration. Please also fill out the Diagnosis form, which I have linked in my signature, and post it here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks Heidi030, things have been going along very well for a long time now. Then suddenly this!



Test Results for the Following:

·        * Ammonia Level 0ppm

·        * Nitrite Level 0ppm

·        * Nitrate level 0ppm now but up to 5pmm before water change

·        * Ammonia Level 0ppm

·        * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0ppm

·        * Nitrate level(Tap) 0ppm

·        * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2

·        * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2

I cant test for KH, GH and Chloramines

Other Required Info:

·        * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?  API Freshwater Master Test Kit

·        * Water temperature? 24 degrees Celsius

·        * Tank size (how many gals. 79 US gallons) and how long has it been running? 14 months

·        * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Two internal power filters Aquatopia 1000 litres per hour (each filter)

·        * How often do you change the water and how much? 90% twice a week

·        * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? The problem occurred after a water change (I fed them blood worms while they were in the bucket. Something I have done in the past without a problem)

·        * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 telescope butterfly tails, bodies about 4-5 inches long

·        * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime water conditioner

·        * What do you feed your fish and how often? Twice to three times a day, duckweed, Hikari Lionhead sinking pellets, New Life Spectrum Algae Max, New Life Spectrum Algae Gel food and the Protein New Life Spectrum Gel food mixed together, Steamed peas occasionally, blood worms occassionally

·        * Any new fish added to the tank? No

·        * Any medications added to the tank? No

·        * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.  Did the Prazi treatment recommended on Kokos website in April this year. For the fish I think is Constipated I used 1.5 – 2 teaspoons of Epsom Salts in 3.7 US gallons of tank water

·        * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? This fish looks fine but sits on the bottom of the tank

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? I have not fed him for three days now, should i try and feed him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

All anyone can do is guess. I will offer an educated guess:

 

"What do you feed your fish and how often? Twice to three times a day, duckweed, Hikari Lionhead sinking pellets, New Life Spectrum Algae Max, New Life Spectrum Algae Gel food and the Protein New Life Spectrum Gel food mixed together, Steamed peas occasionally, blood worms occassionally/"

 

Unfortunately I'd place that under the "overfeeding" category. This can open a titanic can of worms unfortunately with short body telescopes.

 

Goldfish of this size would be 2 maybe 3 years old? They should be fed lightly once per day, or moderately every other day - in my experiece. ESPECIALLY if they have acess to duckweed.

 

I lost a telescope too over feeding.

Edited by apecentral
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Find a larger container for the fish, and one with a larger surface area.  Something like this would be good.  You might also add an airstone.  Test the water he is in now for ammonia and nitrite.  Even without feeding, these can build up quickly when you have a large fish in a small container.

 

As Chelsea said,  clear out the epsom salts.  The concentration exceeds what we usually use, and it hasn't helped.   I recommend 0.1 % salt.

 

How many rounds of prazi did you do back in April?

 

Try this once you have clean water in the tank.  Feed just duckweed (assuming he likes it).    Duckweed goes through the digestive tract quickly, so you can tell when the old poop has been expelled by the presence of green poop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi Everyone, I did the six treatments of Prazi recommended on Koko's.

 

He is back in the tank and not eating although he looked interested in soaked algae pellet food. He was sitting on the bottom of the tank most of the time. He did move around a bit while the other two ate the algae pellets though.  He has not pooped in three days, I am concerned I over did it with the Blood Worms and I blocked him up.

 

To be clear; I was feeding two to three small meals a day on the advice I got from this forum. The range of food I offer is to make sure the fish do not suffer a deficiency. A meal for these three fish would be two frozen gel food blocks that together would be the size of a pea. The gel food is cut into smaller blocks and fed to the fish after it has defrosted. If that was breakfast I would give them some soaked algae pellets for dinner (maybe 15 to 20 of the tiny soaked pellets between three big fish) if they got duck weed it would be many hours later and only half a teaspoon.

 

I will now only feed once a day if you think what I have outlined above is two much. I will also stick with the duckweed for a while. The duckweed is not always available; it is growing in my tropical fish tanks and I always monitor the amount I give. I am starting to think that goldfish are too inbred for me to keep healthy. I am always checking on them, monitoring their behaviour and doing the 'keep the water perfect and you get healthy fish' thing. That is why I do two big water changes a week, I always slowly adjust the water in the bucket to the new tank water by adding the new clean tank water to the bucket, then using a bowl, I lift the fish one at a time out of the bucket and then gently put them back in the tank. I do this so I don't shock them with different water parameters. I check the temperature matches too.

 

Despite my best efforts goldfish seem to go downhill so quickly if something goes wrong. I gave up keeping goldfish for many years before trying again and I am starting to loose heart here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

Ok lets just try something... LEts not feed for a day and then I would like you to give them nothing bug Green beans  (2-3meals a day )(cooked) for 2 days :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

28118244-B0F6-4672-A753-3C3C3B0592BA_zps

 

I posted this image to give you an idea of my tank setup. It is the fish on the right who is in trouble. This photo was taken from my dining table where I now do work from home instead of my study so I can watch my fish. The sick fish in question is moving about a bit now but still mostly on the bottom. I wish he would poop, I never thought I would actually ever write something like that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

In Australia green beans are in the pod and we steam the whole thing, do you want me to remove the beans inside the pod and just cook those?

Just steam the whole thing... just make sure you cut the ends off and  then cut them to pieces :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Helper

And please don't freak out about the feedings, several small feedings a day are great. One mouthful for each fish is a good way to go if you're not weighing the food. Just enough for them to stop and chew, no more. Goldfish are grazers, the smaller and more frequent the feeding, the better.

Keep us posted as to how the greens go for you :)

Edited by Koko
feelings to feedings :teehee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Helper

Hi Everyone, I did the six treatments of Prazi recommended on Koko's.

 

He is back in the tank and not eating although he looked interested in soaked algae pellet food. He was sitting on the bottom of the tank most of the time. He did move around a bit while the other two ate the algae pellets though.  He has not pooped in three days, I am concerned I over did it with the Blood Worms and I blocked him up.

 

To be clear; I was feeding two to three small meals a day on the advice I got from this forum. The range of food I offer is to make sure the fish do not suffer a deficiency. A meal for these three fish would be two frozen gel food blocks that together would be the size of a pea. The gel food is cut into smaller blocks and fed to the fish after it has defrosted. If that was breakfast I would give them some soaked algae pellets for dinner (maybe 15 to 20 of the tiny soaked pellets between three big fish) if they got duck weed it would be many hours later and only half a teaspoon.

 

I will now only feed once a day if you think what I have outlined above is two much. I will also stick with the duckweed for a while. The duckweed is not always available; it is growing in my tropical fish tanks and I always monitor the amount I give. I am starting to think that goldfish are too inbred for me to keep healthy. I am always checking on them, monitoring their behaviour and doing the 'keep the water perfect and you get healthy fish' thing. That is why I do two big water changes a week, I always slowly adjust the water in the bucket to the new tank water by adding the new clean tank water to the bucket, then using a bowl, I lift the fish one at a time out of the bucket and then gently put them back in the tank. I do this so I don't shock them with different water parameters. I check the temperature matches too.

 

Despite my best efforts goldfish seem to go downhill so quickly if something goes wrong. I gave up keeping goldfish for many years before trying again and I am starting to lose heart here.

I'd say you're doing great. Really. Their lifespans are on the shorter side and fancies are prone to problems, it's true. Don't take it personally or as a sign of poor husbandry - it's not! They're stock, and they're highly specialized, overbred stock. You do the best you can and don't sweat the rest.

It sounds like you're a meticulous fish keeper. Your fish are lucky and leading great lives, even if they're prone to issues it's not your doing :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks Arctic Mama, I really appreciate your kind words. I do get upset when one of my fish gets sick. I am doing everything I can to give them the best life. The sick fish is moving a little bit but still sitting on the bottom. I will buy the beans tomorrow and steam them (well only one it would seem) and then try feeding them to the fish. My other two fish are waving frantically at me trying to get my attention. I am ignoring them for the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Update, my sick fish is moving about a bit more. I steamed one bean and sliced it into thin slices. The sick fish got one piece, the other fish about 3 pieces each. The sick fish is sitting on the bottom of the tank again but seems to be in a holding pattern. When should I offer the sick fish more food? Thanks to everyone for taking the time to give me advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi Again Arctic Mama, I just reread your advice about one mouthful each at a time and that goldfish are grazers. This did not register with me the first time  read it. I will make this my mission now. One mouthful each two to three times a day. The sick fish is moving about a bit more, I am hopeful he / she? will recover.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi Koko, I am feeding the beans one mouthful as a meal 2 times a day. Are we all sure this is enough food? My sick fish is moving more and eating. I had to put him in a large bowl for the first feed as the other two goldfish kept trying to take his food. The second feeding he came to the top of the tank and I had fed him his bean slice. He is not back to normal yet, in fact he is doing a head stand as I type this but I feel more confident he will recover. I will do another 90% water change tomorrow.

 

Thanks Heidi I am glad to see he seems to be improving too. I am still a little shocked at how quickly he got sick. I am going to follow Arctic Mama's advice and just feed one mouthful to each fish for a meal. If that is enough food then I was overfeeding.

 

I am going to a conference at the end of the month and my sister and her husband will be house sitting to feed the fish and take care of my dogs for me. I am thinking of asking her to just put in half a teaspoon of duckweed into the tank twice a day. Does everyone think that would be OK or is that too much food per day for three largish goldfish? I will be away 6 days.

 

Thanks again everyone it is a comfort to be able to talk to other people who understand how much my fish mean to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I think we have had some communication problems on this thread.  Particularly, we haven't been clear about the difference between feeding a tank of healthy fish and feeding a floaty fish to clear any digestive problems.   I know when I advised you back in post #6. I assumed you were keeping the sick fish in a hospital tank.  When feeding duckweed or greens to a floaty fish, we give them nothing but that food and a lot of it.  So the green bean feeding was a treatment for the sick fish in isolation, not a way to feed the healthy fish  in the tank.  Basically you fast the fish for two days, but supply a little bit of green bean so it has something moving through the gut.

 

I had two fish recently that flipped over in response to something toxic in their tank.  I took them out, put them in a shallow storage tote, and covered the water with duckweed.  Both fish were upside down.  The next morning both were upright, the duckweed was gone and the bottom of the tub was covered with green poop.  While they needed another week to get over the toxicity problem, neither fish has shown a bit of floatiness since that initial duckweed feeding.

 

We recommend one mouthful of pellets at a feeding for healthy fish.  Veggies contain mostly water and little nutrition while they keep the gut active. Duckweed contains an average of 90% water.  A half teaspoon of duckweed contains 1/20 teaspoon of dry food.    Feeding that is much like me eating a lettuce leaf and a soy bean once a day.    I would lose weight, but I would certainly be bottom sitting most of the time from lack of energy.

 

I hope this clarifies things a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Things are not good now the sick fish is upside down (belly up) I put him back in the main tank because the bucket was too small, I can put him in a larger container of water. He took the beans this morning but spat them back out. I am getting confused, I was told I was overfeeding all my fish earlier on, that I should only be feeding them once a day or every second day. So I stopped the three feeds, then later on I was told three small feed are fine.

 

Should I put the sick fish into a larger tub with the duckweed? I think I am going to lose him at this rate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I meant to  mention he pooped this morning it was not green as i expected but dark brown or black (maybe the blood worms I fed him many days ago?) but normal consistency

Not stringy or with air bubbles in it. Should I try peas, i can shell and steam the pulp?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I have a large plastic floating fish breeding box, it has perforation in the sides and is meant to isolate female fish from amorous males. It is large enough that my sick fish can turn around in it. I am thinking of putting him in this box when I feed the other fish. This will let me control what he eats and he gets to enjoy the filtered water of the main tank at other times. I will let him out of the box after the other fish have eaten. What do you think? Is this a good way to control what eats and give him the benefits of the large water volume of the main tank? He is back to headstands now and has been swimming around a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...