Help with changing the diet of my fish

[AllieCalhoun]

Hi guys,

 

Since I have set foot in this place, people talk about not overfeeding your fish. I was very surprised about that and just red a recommended article by Steve Hopkins (?)

 

In Holland we usually see poor goldfish from fishbowls who look starved... as do the fish we can buy in the pet store. So we tell people to choose a good quality pellet and feed little fish 3 times a day as much as they can eat in 5 minutes. When they grow older, you can feed one or two times. Personally I have like 3 or 4 differend kinds of Hikari fishfood, which is considered high quality. I feed my fish two times a day, around noon and around six PM.

People who dont have fish often think they are fat, because of their build, but thats just how they're supposed to be.

 

Now I understand that it might be better to feed them less pallets and more veggies. I really liked this part of the artikel: 'Its important that de pellets are withheld to the extend that the fish is obliged to eat their salad too. If they are not eating their veggies then do not give them any more pellets until they do.' ROFL!

 

Now I will ask my questions:

- What veggies are good to give? I have experience with peas, they love them but they are not very good on a regular basis I read... And they love broccoli too, but that really makes the tank dirty.

- I read that you shouldnt expect the fish to start eating veggies immediately. Doesnt that effect the water quality? Because in Holland we tell people not to leave the veggies too long in the water, because of the ammonia/nitrite stuff.

- What veggies are unsafe? (I like to experiment but I dont like to accidentely poison my fish...)

- Can my fish lose their excess bodyfat?

[Blitz]

My fish have eaten spinach, cucumber, and zucchini quite happily once one of them worked up the nerve to try a bite. You could also try seaweed (nori). I think that's their favorite. All three zoom over when I put that in the veggie clip.

[AllieCalhoun]

you have a veggie clip? What is that? It sounds like something that would keep my tank clean...

 

Do you cook the zucchini before feeding it?

Edited August 25, 2015 by AllieCalhoun

[shakaho]

Leafy greens -- kale, spinach, lettuce if you wish although unlike the the first two, lettuce has little nutritional value. While very nutritious, peas provide substantial calories, that your fish do not need.  You might substitute green beans.  Some people say broccoli makes their fish gassy.

 

Ammonia comes from protein, so if you feed low protein vegetables like greens, they will rot without releasing ammonia.  Goldfish prefer their vegetables a little rotten anyway.

[Mr. Hyde]

Hello.

A veggie clip is just that, a clip (with a suction to attach to the inside of the tank) that holds your veggies.

I use it for spinach (blanched so spinach isn't too tuff) and to hold dried seaweed sheets that I break into smaller pieces first.

The seaweed sheets are pretty good for the fish and are available in green, red and brown.

I only ever bought the green ones.

As a rule, I give the veggies only as a complimentary food along with their staple pellets (or gel food if you prefer).

I don't think the veggies alone will be enough nutrients to replacea meal.

[AllieCalhoun]

Well, the stuff I read is that you shouldnt feed much pellets, just once every day or every other day and then feed them veggies so they dont get bored.

 

(its all really new and confusing to me, so I hope to get some clarification)

Edited August 25, 2015 by AllieCalhoun

[shakaho]

You read right, Allie.  I'd feed them pellets daily, but just a mouthful, which takes about a half a minute.

 

Mr.Hyde, these fish need a reducing diet.

[AllieCalhoun]

Okey I do feel comfortable with feeding them 'normal' food on a dayly basis, but I will see to it that its not too much.

Do you have an estimate as of how many pellets per fish I should count?

 

(now I can cross my hobbies.. I do have a veggies-garden, lol...)

Edited August 25, 2015 by AllieCalhoun

[shakaho]

How many pellets have you been using?  

[AllieCalhoun]

I dont know I never count...

[Mr. Hyde]

You read right, Allie.  I'd feed them pellets daily, but just a mouthful, which takes about a half a minute.

 

Mr.Hyde, these fish need a reducing diet.

 

I hear you Shakaho.

Just thought throwing in one meal of pellets a day as opposed to solely veggies was a good idea.

[shakaho]

I dont know I never count...

I feed by volume.  In each pond, I use measuring spoons.  In one, the fish (8 adult fantails) get 2 teaspoons of large pellets a day in the summer and up to one teaspoon a day in the winter (unless the temperature < 10^oC when I don't feed at all).  If the water starts looking dirty, I reduce the amount fed.  If the fish are trying to eat the water lilies, I increase the amount.

 

Watch for how much it takes for the fish to get a mouthful and start to chew.  Unfortunately, with mixed sizes of fish in the tank, you won't find this easy.  Or you can time how long it takes for all the food to disappear.  If less than 30 seconds, feed a little more.  If more than a minute, feed less.  You might start with 1/4 teaspoon.

[AllieCalhoun]

Okey, I will observe closely Thanks

[jmetzger72]

I prefer to give my fish aquatic veggies like algae, etc. that they would find in their natural habitat.  However, if you you want to try terrestrial veggies, I have had the most success with raw red leaf lettuce and blanched zucchini.  Both of these can be offered with a veggie clip.  I found that blanched broccoli made the water smell 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Jared

[jmetzger72]

According to Helen Roberts in her book Fundamentals of Ornamental Fish Health, terrestrial plants contain a lot of the structural carbohydrate, cellulose which is is used to for support to keep them upright in the air.  Aquatic plants do not rely on cellulose for support as they simply float upward in the water.  So, cellulose is not a natural or necessary part of the fish's diet.  This is why I prefer giving my fish plants sourced from aquatic environments.

[AllieCalhoun]

I understand, but cellulose gets broken when you cook veggies, thats why we can digest them, right?

I just cooked four green beans for them and put them in. I am curious how they will like it.

Can I just let it decay there or do I have to clean the leftover out after a certain amount of time (and what amount)?

[Hidr]

Mine get such a varied diet adding new food has never been a problem. It did take them awhile to take to the gel food but now that is not a problem either.

I remove left overs so it wont mess up the water.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Hidr

[jmetzger72]

I understand, but cellulose gets broken when you cook veggies, thats why we can digest them, right?

I just cooked four green beans for them and put them in. I am curious how they will like it.

Can I just let it decay there or do I have to clean the leftover out after a certain amount of time (and what amount)?

Yes, blanching is supposed to break down the cellulose.  I just think it makes logical sense to skip that step and offer them a more indigenous choice (aquatic veggies) instead.  But, that's just my 

 

Currently, I offer my Goldfish a mix of high quality sinking pellets in the morning and alternate Repashy Super Green gel and frozen bloodworms every other night.  By the way, Steve Hopkins is also a big proponent of feeding bloodworms

 

I do, however, offer my Plecos blanched Zucchini because it is the only thing that survives the Goldfish long enough for the Plecos to eat

Edited August 25, 2015 by Jared

[kiro]

I have a question as well, so I hope you don't mind AllieCalhoun that I "kidnap" your thread.

As far as the amount of food goes, I read to feed about 1-3% of fish bodyweight for them daily? (more to younger fish, less to older ones).

Is this right information?

[GoldenSpoiledRotten]

I have a question as well, so I hope you don't mind AllieCalhoun that I "kidnap" your thread.

As far as the amount of food goes, I read to feed about 1-3% of fish bodyweight for them daily? (more to younger fish, less to older ones).

Is this right information?

1% for pellet foods. 3% for gel foods. This is due to the water content in the food, not the age of the fish. The age of the fish only comes into play with what you feed, not how much. Edited August 27, 2015 by ChelseaM

[shakaho]

I don't think so.  These recommendations seem to come from two sources -- breeders "grooming" young fish as show specimens and recommendations for aquaculture (fish farming).  In aquaculture, one wants to get the fish to market size as rapidly as possible.  This means getting 3-4 year's growth in one year.  Goldfish breeders show some confusion on the subject of grooming and health.  Some say this produces not just the optimal show fish, but also optimal health.  Yet they have a saying, "Don't show your breeders and don't breed your show fish," and some acknowledge that the show fish may fail to breed.

 

Koi breeders are more of one mind.  Some are devoted to producing jumbo koi with the goal of show-quality fish more than a meter long.  These generally agree that the jumbo koi are unlikely to live as long as fish that haven't been "groomed" as rigorously.

[AllieCalhoun]

I still have one question left: how long do you let the green stuff decay? Do you ever get it out of there or is it really no threat to your water quality?

[Mr. Hyde]

 I do, however, offer my Plecos blanched Zucchini because it is the only thing that survives the Goldfish long enough for the Plecos to eat

I thought it was because nobody else in your house ever eats zuchini, so you make the pleco eat it

[koko]

 

 I do, however, offer my Plecos blanched Zucchini because it is the only thing that survives the Goldfish long enough for the Plecos to eat

I thought it was because nobody else in your house ever eats zuchini, so you make the pleco eat it

 

[kiro]

 

I have a question as well, so I hope you don't mind AllieCalhoun that I "kidnap" your thread.

As far as the amount of food goes, I read to feed about 1-3% of fish bodyweight for them daily? (more to younger fish, less to older ones).

Is this right information?

1% for pellet foods. 3% for gel foods. This is due to the water content in the food, not the age of the fish. The age of the fish only comes into play with what you feed, not how much.

 

Thank you very much! I remembered reading somewhere about this, but didn't remember it had to do with water content.

For what to feed, then, is it so that older fish need less animal protein, or am I remembering that incorrectly as well?

Edited August 27, 2015 by kiro