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NancyJean

Sick Oranda Not Getting Better :-( please help!

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How many salt dips did you do?  What % and for how long?

 

If you'd like to try some antibiotics, I can suggest some.  If not, I completely understand.  :hug

Thank you, yes I would like to try some antibiotics. When I got home this evening she seems better, swimming more upright and Eating again. :-) What antibiotics do you recommend? I have some metro gel food in the freezer.

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How many salt dips did you do?  What % and for how long?

 

If you'd like to try some antibiotics, I can suggest some.  If not, I completely understand.  :hug

For the salt dip, I gave her 2 for 30 min. I mixed 8 tsp salt in 2 gal. Was that correct?

Right now she has no salt added to tank, I read they shouldnt be in salty tank water over a week, is that correct?

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Is there any other med in the gel food besides metro? 

 

For salt dips we usually recommend a much stronger dip that lasts a maximum of 5 minutes.  Typically the dip is 3%.  Your dip was more like 0.4%.

 

Fish can be in salt for over a week but it must be measured carefully and in there for a reason. 

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Is there any other med in the gel food besides metro? 

 

For salt dips we usually recommend a much stronger dip that lasts a maximum of 5 minutes.  Typically the dip is 3%.  Your dip was more like 0.4%.

 

Fish can be in salt for over a week but it must be measured carefully and in there for a reason.

Is there any other med in the gel food besides metro? 

 

For salt dips we usually recommend a much stronger dip that lasts a maximum of 5 minutes.  Typically the dip is 3%.  Your dip was more like 0.4%.

 

Fish can be in salt for over a week but it must be measured carefully and in there for a reason.

She is swimming a little better today.:-)

This is the recipe I used on Hiarki website. It calls for gelatin, food water and meto+.

http://www.hikariusa.com/articles/medicated-feed/

Does this sound right or do you recommend somthing else?

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Is there any other med in the gel food besides metro? 

 

For salt dips we usually recommend a much stronger dip that lasts a maximum of 5 minutes.  Typically the dip is 3%.  Your dip was more like 0.4%.

 

Fish can be in salt for over a week but it must be measured carefully and in there for a reason.

Is there any other med in the gel food besides metro? 

 

For salt dips we usually recommend a much stronger dip that lasts a maximum of 5 minutes.  Typically the dip is 3%.  Your dip was more like 0.4%.

 

Fish can be in salt for over a week but it must be measured carefully and in there for a reason.

Sorry I did the salt dip incorrectly. Could you give me the dirctions you guys use?

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Is there any other med in the gel food besides metro? 

 

For salt dips we usually recommend a much stronger dip that lasts a maximum of 5 minutes.  Typically the dip is 3%.  Your dip was more like 0.4%.

 

Fish can be in salt for over a week but it must be measured carefully and in there for a reason.

Should I have continued adding aquarium salt and epsom salt to the tank? I asked on Aug 5 th and didnt hear back, so I thought I should quit to be safe.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I am doing my best to save her. She is fighting hard and I will do what I can.

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The metro food is fine.  I would also add Kanaplex (or whatever they are calling it these days . . .  kanamycin by Seachem) to the water.

 

I would probably skip the salt dip at this point. 

 

If she is bloated and/or pineconing, I'd add Epsom.  If not then no Epsom either.  :D

 

Sorry it took me so long to get back with you.  Had a family reunion today.  
 

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The metro food is fine.  I would also add Kanaplex (or whatever they are calling it these days . . .  kanamycin by Seachem) to the water.

 

I would probably skip the salt dip at this point. 

 

If she is bloated and/or pineconing, I'd add Epsom.  If not then no Epsom either.  :D

 

Sorry it took me so long to get back with you.  Had a family reunion today.

I am adding some photos of her. While she has less strings hanging off her, she still has flaking skin. She is on her side sometimes and the skin that comes out of the water looks worse.

DSC_0620.jpg

DSC_0606.jpg

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Her face appears to more "flaking" (I don't know what else to call it). The white stuff is now above her eye, does it look like her eye is protruding a little maybe? Also it looks like little white dots on her face, could it be ich?

DSC_0630.jpg

DSC_0629.jpg

DSC_0628.jpg

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So my big question is this: if she were your fish, what would you do, keep trying to treat her or put her to sleep?

She is still eating Ok. Her pelvic fins are the only fins that look normal. The antibiotics i gave her aren't helping.

Do you think she is suffering? In my mind I keep thinking that the acidic water after the ph crash burned her badly enough that she can't grow new skin and fins. Like a human who would need skin grafting or something. I kept praying she would get better. But she has been in the hospital going on 6 weeks.

If I put her sleep, what is the best way? I have half a bottle of clove oil, about half an ounce. Thank you for helping me for so long.

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This is little Mouchie, the victim of the second ph crash. Both are in the hospital tank so getting similiar treatments. I don't wish a ph crash on anyone! Mouchie used to have a cute little white tail. Now he has stiff black stubby scabs. Its weird to feel his tail, because it feels really stiff and the ends are sharp!

DSC_0640.jpg

DSC_0643.jpg

DSC_0638.jpg

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How long and what antibiotics has she been on?  Metro food?  How long?  Is she eating it?  Anything else?

 

Is it always the same area of her body that is out of the water?

 

I'm not sure about the white on her wen.  I'm going to ask the mod team for opinions.

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How long and what antibiotics has she been on?  Metro food?  How long?  Is she eating it?  Anything else?

 

Is it always the same area of her body that is out of the water?

 

I'm not sure about the white on her wen.  I'm going to ask the mod team for opinions.

She started the antibiotics on Monday, so 4 days. I am using the recipe for medicated gel food found on Hikari website. I mixed in Hikari Metro + and added some Maracyn 2 Minocycline. (I wish I had some MetroMeds or Medi-Gold from goldfishconnection but that ship has sailed.) I gave her the medicated food about 3 times a day and fed her about 5 minutes. That was all I gave her.

This evening she is spitting out the medicated gel food. She is refusing to eat her medicine. She grabbed the regular food I put in for Mouchie, tho. I feed Mouchie sinking tablets, and since she cannot go to the bottom it was working ok until today when she gobbled some up. Any suggestions for how I should get her to eat the medicated food?

Yes it is always the same side floating out, the right side.

The white flakes on her wen and face have been there since the ph crashed. She has a lot of flaking around her face. She had long strings hanging from her face which are gone now, I think the salt helped. Sorry I cannot say for sure if the white spots there all along with the flakes.

I ordered a microscope that should be here tomorrow. I also orderd Furan 2 and Seacem kanamycin per your instructions should arrive today or tomorrow.

Did you get anything from the other mods?

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HI  Nancyjean  ,   are you thinking about  injections ?   maybe you need to look  for a fish vet  near you  ,  i think   if your oranda  continues floating   ,  it could be  dificult to cures from the external  diseases  ,  i think the  first thing is a Quality water   ,  but  as i told you if she has a permament damage on his  bladder there is  not much hope 

Edited by elpinacate

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HI  Nancyjean  ,   are you thinking about  injections ?   maybe you need to look  for a fish vet  near you  ,  i think   if your oranda  continues floating   ,  it could be  dificult to cures from the external  diseases  ,  i think the  first thing is a Quality water   ,  but  as i told you if she has a permament damage on his  bladder there is  not much hope

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate any help. Unfortunatley there are no vets near me who do that. I think you are right about the damage to the swim bladder. My husband wants to fit her with weights to help her sink. I don't know. :-(

Has anyone ever done their own injections? I may look that one up.

She has been in the hospital tank for about 6 weeks now with good water quality. Poor thing.

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Your doing a great job taking care of her. Hope she gets better soon!!!!

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The white stuff on the wen is the flesh under the wen growth. As it heals it looks granular and yellow/white. It's a sign of healing, but unless it has been mechanically removed like with a syphoning or filter accident, the flesh would have sloughed or rotted off.

I still think this looks like chemical burns either from pH drops, salt, or something else. And when a burn heals, the dying tissue sheds. This would be what I would expect when a wen wound goes down below to the fish's flesh. It's not quite bone deep but below the scale level, definitely.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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If things aren't looks worse since starting the metro you may just want to do that and the furan-2 for a two week course. I don't think this needs the Kanaplex just yet because I see no signs this is actually a bacterial pathogen. The metro and furan, together, should inhibit any secondary infections while she continues to heal. If you haven't already, consider dropping the salt back down to .1% (1 teaspoon per gallon) because I honestly believe the salt may be high enough to be exacerbating the slime coat shedding and irritation. I'm seeing all the signs on these fish of injury and for how long she has been in clean water the salt is the next culprit I'd consider. Most goldfish aren't bothered by salinity. Some are, especially ones that have already been weakened or sustained injury to their slime coats, fins, and scales as she has.

Any other mod team member may weigh in, this is just my .02

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If things aren't looks worse since starting the metro you may just want to do that and the furan-2 for a two week course. I don't think this needs the Kanaplex just yet because I see no signs this is actually a bacterial pathogen. The metro and furan, together, should inhibit any secondary infections while she continues to heal. If you haven't already, consider dropping the salt back down to .1% (1 teaspoon per gallon) because I honestly believe the salt may be high enough to be exacerbating the slime coat shedding and irritation. I'm seeing all the signs on these fish of injury and for how long she has been in clean water the salt is the next culprit I'd consider. Most goldfish aren't bothered by salinity. Some are, especially ones that have already been weakened or sustained injury to their slime coats, fins, and scales as she has.

Any other mod team member may weigh in, this is just my .02

Thank you so so much, Artic Mom, your .02 cents are worth a million to me!

I agree about the salt and stopped using it after week 1. My gut told me like you said that it seemed to be causing her to shed excessively and it was irritating her.

We will continue the Metro and add Furan2 for a 2 week treatment. Furan2 in the water according to package directions. I am kicking myself for not starting antibiotics earlier just to prevent infections, because she is an older fish, she was worn out by being chased all spring by a male, she has had infections before (as a baby in the pet store, I took her home and treated her) and she had so much damage so quickly.

Please answer 2 questions for me?

1) Is there a way to get to eat the gel food with Metro? She ate it for 4 days, the little turkey is now spitting it out.

2) Is there a way to help her swim correctly, so that she is not floating on her side? It is a battle for her and she really tires heself out.

Thank you again! Please continue to help us. :-)

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If she won't eat it, just switch the dosing to the waterborne instructions for a fourteen day course, less the days she has already been dosed (so ten more days or so?).

Dose the Furan a full fourteen days just as directed. I like to do full water changes every other day, right before redosing the Metro. And do make sure there is no charcoal in your filter and the lights stay off, as the charcoal will absorb the medication and the Furan is light sensitive.

As for her swimming, there is nothing to be done except keep the water level lower so she isn't swimming as deeply and keep the current gentle or non existent, like a sponge filter, baffled HOB, or no filter and just an air stone. The swimming issues may resolve if there is a bacterial infection at the root, but if there isn't they will remain and it's her new normal. Down the road you may decide to euthanize her if she begins experiencing injury from the floating issues. That's out usual recommendation because there isn't much more to be done, I'm afraid. It either resolves with this treatment or its permanent (especially if you're already feeding gel food and plenty of vegetable matter).

Edited by Arctic Mama

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Your doing a great job taking care of her. Hope she gets better soon!!!!

Thank you for the encouragement, Heidi, I appreciate it more than you know.

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high nitrates  above 20 ppm   is related to floating problems  ,  but you say water is very good ,   how is the  poop ? 

 

also  sounds like   you are using lot of medications 

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high nitrates  above 20 ppm   is related to floating problems  ,  but you say water is very good ,   how is the  poop ? 

 

also  sounds like   you are using lot of medications

Thank for the reply, I appreciate any help. :-) I have received excellent advice from people here.

Her poop stared out looking white and stringy. For the past couple of weeks, it looks like a blob of brown, not shaped like normal poop. I will try to get a photo.

After a ph crash in my display tank (I have 7 tanks and the others are all fine) she has been in the Hospital/Quarantine tank going on 7 weeks. Other fish were ok. Nitrates in hospital are very low. Hospital was cycled with alot of cycled media, so no ammonia & nitrites and nitrates were at .5. Daily or every other day water changes.

A side note: I keep up on regular maintance and testing on all my tanks and my koi pond, keeping them clean, cycled and well aerated, All other fish are all thriving and the livestock are reproducing. I do not know why the ph has crashed 3 times on my 75 gal goldfish tank. Another young goldfish was affected by the 2nd ph crash. He is doing much better, not in hopital, tail and dorsal fin are growing back.

In the Hospital since starting on Metro+ and Furan2 this week the nitrifying bacteria are gone which I expected. So now the ammonia and nitrites will rise before a daily water change and there are no nitrates.

Med history on hospital tank:

The first week aquarium salt only. Did Methalyne blue dips the first week.

For the 4 weeks: she got NO meds, just clean water with Prime and the and a few salt dips. She slowly got worse. Her wen starting disolving/flaking off and she was floating on her side.

This week I added Metro+ and Furan2 to the water. She will get a 2 week course.

She is doing better I think. No longer floating on side and able to go under for short periods. I am feeding her Hikari floating food since she cannot go under.

She still has white stuff coming off her though, on her sides, tail, front fins, around her face and even around her eyes.

I know the rules here say I should not speculate or diagnose myself her, but I am so curious what she may have and when I started to see her wen disappearing and the white stuff around her face, I thought Columarius or Hexamita (hole in the head disease.) Hexamita sympoms which match her sympoms are are trailing mucus, pale stringy feces, fin and skin erode, milky body slime coat comes off in strands. I will try to get more photos. The camera does an auto white balance and bleaches out the red colors.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

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I got a new microscope. Can someone point in the direction or give me advice how to safely do a skin scraping and what I should be looking for?

Thank you everyone for all the help! It means more than you know!!! :-)

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