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How many breeds of goldfish are there?


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I was trying to make a complete list of fancy goldfish breeds/types/variations and with some help from the Instgram Goldfish community I've made this list:

Screenshot_2015-07-26-17-35-48.png

 

I've only included doubletailed fish- so comets, shubukins ect. are not on the list - this is a list with Fancy Goldfish only. Also, subtypes like shorttailed Ruykin or TVR vs SVR are not looked as a specific type, but as a subtype under Ranchu fx therefore not having their own "category". I lack Broadtail under Moor/Demekin, but can you see any that I'm missing?

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I know there are a lot. I wonder if there are varieties that no longer exist considering how long people have been breeding goldfish into fancy varieties...

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I know there are a lot. I wonder if there are varieties that no longer exist considering how long people have been breeding goldfish into fancy varieties...

 

A lot of Japanese goldfish variations died during war time, but since they often kept records on the looks, characteristics and how they were breed, there are people who are trying to recreate these types with some success. 

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I know there are a lot. I wonder if there are varieties that no longer exist considering how long people have been breeding goldfish into fancy varieties...

 

A lot of Japanese goldfish variations died during war time, but since they often kept records on the looks, characteristics and how they were breed, there are people who are trying to recreate these types with some success. 

 

That's awesome!

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I know there are a lot. I wonder if there are varieties that no longer exist considering how long people have been breeding goldfish into fancy varieties...

 

A lot of Japanese goldfish variations died during war time, but since they often kept records on the looks, characteristics and how they were breed, there are people who are trying to recreate these types with some success. 

 

I never knew that!

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I have read that hundreds of varieties exist in China.  For some of the newer ones, look here

 

All of these are what I would call "subtypes". Very interesting subtypes indeed! I've marked this site for further reference and to see very beautiful fish!

But none of these I would add to my list as they are not clearly defined characteristics as of now and many have not spread beyond China and other Eastern Countries. They are also mixes of already defined variations and seem a bit unstable in their form (some have dorsal fins, whereas other of the same mix doesn't), so these would not make my list :) But thanks for the site and link! Very interesting!!

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Does anyone have any more varieties to be added to the list? :)

 

I'm planning to use this list to make a video series about each variety and what makes them different than other breeds. In this aspect, I would like to use pictures or videos of the different breeds, but as my collection is quite small and "normal" compared to this long list I would ask if anyone would allow me to use their pictures of their fish for the use in these videos? For now I'm looking for pictures and videos of:

Fantail

Oranda

Ryukin

 

If you have any pictures and/or videos that you would like to be use in my videos, please send them to: fancyblackgold @outlook.com . Either as a link to the file or as an attachment. Or you can share a folder or files using Dropbox to the address as well.

All pictures will have clearly marked photocredits/watermarks and will only be used in these videos by me. I will not share them with any other or use them in other connections without your consent.

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But none of these I would add to my list as they are not clearly defined characteristics as of now and many have not spread beyond China and other Eastern Countries. They are also mixes of already defined variations and seem a bit unstable in their form (some have dorsal fins, whereas other of the same mix doesn't), so these would not make my list 

 

I don't quite understand this.  I am probably wrong, but it sounds like you only want to include varieties that breed true -- the offspring of a male and female of that variety all show the characteristics defining that variety.  In that case, the number of fancy varieties is simple -- zero.  Within varieties, some breeders create intensely inbred and selected strains in which the fraction of offspring that have the characteristics of the variety increases substantially.  Still, their first cull removes deformed fry and those that do not have all of the characteristics of the variety.   All varieties that have multiple mutations originated from crosses between varieties that had the desired mutations, followed by intense inbreeding and selection. 

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Sharon's right.

 

Are you trying to just list distinct varieties? 

 

 

If so, you're missing several: Thai Oranda, Top-View Oranda, Ingot Oranda, long-tailed Ryukin (Default is short), China Doll,  and probably a hundred or more others.

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But none of these I would add to my list as they are not clearly defined characteristics as of now and many have not spread beyond China and other Eastern Countries. They are also mixes of already defined variations and seem a bit unstable in their form (some have dorsal fins, whereas other of the same mix doesn't), so these would not make my list 

 

I don't quite understand this.  I am probably wrong, but it sounds like you only want to include varieties that breed true -- the offspring of a male and female of that variety all show the characteristics defining that variety.  In that case, the number of fancy varieties is simple -- zero.  Within varieties, some breeders create intensely inbred and selected strains in which the fraction of offspring that have the characteristics of the variety increases substantially.  Still, their first cull removes deformed fry and those that do not have all of the characteristics of the variety.   All varieties that have multiple mutations originated from crosses between varieties that had the desired mutations, followed by intense inbreeding and selection. 

 

 

 

Sharon's right.

 

Are you trying to just list distinct varieties? 

 

 

If so, you're missing several: Thai Oranda, Top-View Oranda, Ingot Oranda, long-tailed Ryukin (Default is short), China Doll,  and probably a hundred or more others.

 

The purpose of the list is to include the majority of goldfish breeds available today for purchase for the average goldfish keeper. Let's take Oranda for an example. There are a lot of different types of Orandas - but all of them have in common that they are Orandas. So all the varieties of Oranda is still "just" an Oranda.

If we employ your thinking, then we would have to have everyone who ever breed goldfish's bloodline as a separate breed, as they might look like an Oranda, but have small differences from other bloodline. That list would be never ending and while it might be more correct - it still would be impossible to have them all on the list and do a video of them, explaining the difference of the variation.

So yes, this is a simplified list. And it is for that sake, that I only count Oranda once - but do include what I call "subtypes" fx Yuan Bao under Oranda and so forth. One could say that I'm looking at breeds, and you are named variations of that breed. 

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But none of these I would add to my list as they are not clearly defined characteristics as of now and many have not spread beyond China and other Eastern Countries. They are also mixes of already defined variations and seem a bit unstable in their form (some have dorsal fins, whereas other of the same mix doesn't), so these would not make my list 

 

I don't quite understand this.  I am probably wrong, but it sounds like you only want to include varieties that breed true -- the offspring of a male and female of that variety all show the characteristics defining that variety.  In that case, the number of fancy varieties is simple -- zero.  Within varieties, some breeders create intensely inbred and selected strains in which the fraction of offspring that have the characteristics of the variety increases substantially.  Still, their first cull removes deformed fry and those that do not have all of the characteristics of the variety.   All varieties that have multiple mutations originated from crosses between varieties that had the desired mutations, followed by intense inbreeding and selection. 

 

 

 

Sharon's right.

 

Are you trying to just list distinct varieties? 

 

 

If so, you're missing several: Thai Oranda, Top-View Oranda, Ingot Oranda, long-tailed Ryukin (Default is short), China Doll,  and probably a hundred or more others.

 

The purpose of the list is to include the majority of goldfish breeds available today for purchase for the average goldfish keeper. Let's take Oranda for an example. There are a lot of different types of Orandas - but all of them have in common that they are Orandas. So all the varieties of Oranda is still "just" an Oranda.

If we employ your thinking, then we would have to have everyone who ever breed goldfish's bloodline as a separate breed, as they might look like an Oranda, but have small differences from other bloodline. That list would be never ending and while it might be more correct - it still would be impossible to have them all on the list and do a video of them, explaining the difference of the variation.

So yes, this is a simplified list. And it is for that sake, that I only count Oranda once - but do include what I call "subtypes" fx Yuan Bao under Oranda and so forth. One could say that I'm looking at breeds, and you are named variations of that breed. 

 

Let's put it simply then: Goldfish are extremely complicated genetically and there is no way to list them all in the way you plan to do so. Goldfish are all variations of each other. If you plan to list based on 'breed' then you need to list those breeds separately. This means that there aren't going to be many subtypes and a lot of separate types.

TelescopexOranda, Ingot Oranda (I.e. Yuan Bao), and Telechu should be listed separately from Ranchu, Oranda, Ryukin, or Telescope. This comes from the logic that, in the same way, a Labradoodle is not a sub-breed of a Labrador or a Poodle.

 

Butterfly Tail should not be listed (it is a misnomer), but Butterfly Telescope should. A butterfly tail is not a type of goldfish, but a characteristic. A Butterfly Telescope is a type of goldfish.

 

A veiltail is a type of goldfish so can be listed that way. However, a Veiltail can be a veil-tailed Oranda or a veil-tailed telescope. Those need to be listed as subtypes of the Oranda or Telescope. This comes from the logic that, in the same way, a labrador can be curly-coated or straight-coated and needs to be classified as such. Same with Broadtail, which is both type and tail-type. (i.e. broadtail Ryukin)

 

A Thai Oranda is a separate type from a regular Oranda. Therefore it should be listed separately. This is the same with Tiku Pearlscales and Crowned Pearlscales, as there is a visible and recognizable distinction. Those who know goldfish wouldn't call the types of Orandas the same when classifying a Thai Oranda vs. a standard Oranda or Top-view Oranda.

 

A lionchu is a separate type from a Lionhead. Those should be listed separately. A lionchu is a cross between a lionhead and ranchu. Lionhead is not a subtype of that cross.

 

Tamasaba should be included due to it being a genetic variation of the Ryukin. Although it has only one tail, it is still a fancy goldfish variety. I've had those, and they fit the fancy goldfish requirements.

 

Just a typo-help: It's Yuan Bao, not Yuan Boa. Bao is a bun, Boa is a snake. ;)

 

 

 

See? Confusing. :thud I had to re-type this several times to make sure it was understandable.

 

Edited by ChelseaM
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What was the temperature when these were eggs?   For some reason tail development can be temperature sensitive.

I have no idea the outside temperature but as soon as I saw eggs I brought them inside and out them in room temperature water which would be around 73

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