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QandD

Mystery, never-ending parasites

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I also got Aqua-Prazi in the mail in case PraziPro wasn't working as well, so I would be willing to try a couple of powdered Prazi rounds if you think that would be advisable. Re: powdered Prazi, how do you measure the dose for a 10 gallon QT? The container says 1 tbsp per 500 gallons!!

 

 

I use 1/16 Teaspoon per 10 gallons.

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Hi all, 

 

Just thought I would update you now that D&V are on Day 7 of Paraguard. 

 

Vickie's tail has completely healed, as has her pelvic fin. However, I have noticed two white spots (not ich spots) on her side, and can't tell if they are pigment changes or something else. Here are two photos. The first shows how her tail is better and you can see a spot stage right on her body. The other photo shows the lighter scales. 

 

IMG_3396_zpsgcirkwcn.jpg

 

IMG_3297_zpsmbafetp5.jpg

 

Duchess is also doing a little better. She is not nearly as clamped and lethargic as she was initially; reducing the salt from .3% to .1 - .15% has made her a lot less stressed, but I'm concerned that perhaps the parasites aren't dying as much with reduced salt. Would it be advisable to raise the salt in a week or so once she (hopefully) feels consistently better? 

 

She does not like any new doses of Paraguard post-water change (I have been doing 100% WCs every day) and flicks her head and zones out for a while before recovering herself. She has been flashing and glass surfing less than she had been. The frays in her tail seem to be healing, but because I don't use a light on the QT due to the malachite green, it is hard to see if the opaque patches on her tail are improving. At some point I will just take a video of them under the LED. They are both eating with normal poops and asking for attention. I have read that you can safely dose Paraguard for up to a month or so (according to Seachem), so I am inclined to keep dosing so long as they are showing any kind of signs of parasites and then perhaps a little longer after that. Does this sound right?

 

I hope this is the key to fixing the situation after all! Knock on wood! Thank you for your help so far from me, D, and V.

Edited by QandD

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Keep the salt where it is - it's not killing the parasites, but rather to help with slime coat production and discourage secondary external infections during the course of treatment. This isn't ich, where salt would actively prevent tomites from attaching. You've been doing salt long enough that if the parasite was vulnerable we would have seen more improvements :)

Keep dosing the Paraguard until the symptoms have resolved. The white splotches might remain a long time, essentially as a scar on the fins. But if they're regrowing and everyone is behaving otherwise normally I'd consider that success. A good two or three weeks on Paraguard should hopefully do it.

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Keep the salt where it is - it's not killing the parasites, but rather to help with slime coat production and discourage secondary external infections during the course of treatment. This isn't ich, where salt would actively prevent tomites from attaching. You've been doing salt long enough that if the parasite was vulnerable we would have seen more improvements :)

Keep dosing the Paraguard until the symptoms have resolved. The white splotches might remain a long time, essentially as a scar on the fins. But if they're regrowing and everyone is behaving otherwise normally I'd consider that success. A good two or three weeks on Paraguard should hopefully do it.

 

Thanks for the explanation! This makes me feel better about lowering the salt. I just want to see Duchess well again so badly! 

 

I'll update again if I see any bad turns (or significantly good ones!). Thank you again for your help.

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Update: 

 

Duchess continues to look a bit better, though there are still tears in her fins, it seems that they are not as pronounced. The girls have also been more active and aggressive toward each other (unusual), which I think has to do with the small amount of space. Along those lines, upon changing their water today, I noticed that Vickie has a rip in her tail (not ragged or fuzzy or white--like someone snipped it with a scissors). You can only see it when she fans her tail out and wiggles. It was definitely not there yesterday. Do you think this is a mechanical/aggression issue? She is the one who tends to chase Duchess around, though I have noticed that Duchess sometimes retaliates during feeding times or nips at her when Vickie wiggles all over her (I guess she has boundary issues). Behaviorally, they only really gulp after WCs and I have seen no clamping. Duchess yawns occasionally but seems to have more control over her swimming despite the small space. She swims backward but it seems mostly when she is in a corner and needs to turn around, like a three-point turn for fatty goldfish. 

 

I would love to have a 20 gallon QT but I have absolutely nowhere to put it nor do I have the ability to pick it up to drain it completely, as I have been doing with the 10 gallon. They have been receiving 100% WCs daily with 78 F heat, .1% salt, and Paraguard. I am inclined to just keep an eye on things, but I wanted to update all of you in case I need to do something like Quick Cure if the parasites aren't going away. I would love to put Vickie in the main tank, but it is in the high nitrite phase of fishless cycling. 

Edited by QandD

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Don't worry about the nipping, it is likely space related and unless someone is looking stressed I wouldn't do anything. Otherwise floating one of them in a colander can act like an in tank qt to let them rest from any chasing action.

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Hi all,

 

Just another update since I am still wondering about what to do about their fins. I was expecting a little scarring, and Duchess's splits are doing better, but I've noticed that the white pimple things on her dorsal have not gone away, and there are similar spots on the damaged area of Vickie's tail fin. I've tried taking a video of them. 

 

I'm going 100% WC's daily with .1% salt and Paraguard at 78 degrees F. They have just completed a round powdered Prazi, and I was thinking of doing another, but am not sure. Usually Melafix makes it harder for them to breathe, but I've read in the treatment section that it sometimes helps with spots that aren't ich. 

 

Duchess is acting a little weird since she was afraid of the Finnex LED being so close to her--it's the best light to show them, though. You can see the ragged/white stuff on V's tail at around 1:40 and the pimples on D's dorsal at around 1 minute. I've tried to get shots of her fins in general, too. 

 

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I'm not really seeing anything, truthfully. To my eyes they look pretty much normal. No goldfish is in perfect condition - usually there is a little fin tear, a missing scale, some yawning, etc. Just like humans there are varying imperfections. But in both appearance and behavior if I didn't know they had been sick I'd never have guessed because the evidence is pretty much gone. High fives for beating back whatever was ailing them!

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I'm not really seeing anything, truthfully. To my eyes they look pretty much normal. No goldfish is in perfect condition - usually there is a little fin tear, a missing scale, some yawning, etc. Just like humans there are varying imperfections. But in both appearance and behavior if I didn't know they had been sick I'd never have guessed because the evidence is pretty much gone. High fives for beating back whatever was ailing them!

 

Great! I'm so glad. So I can stop with the Paraguard soon?

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I'd say so. The pimple doesn't bother me, and if the white patches are receding I would conclude treatment on Vickie, at least. You can probably keep Duchess going another few days to see if it further improves or stays the same. But I'd move Vickie into the planted tank so Duchess can chill, alone, for the remainder of the QT.

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I'd say so. The pimple doesn't bother me, and if the white patches are receding I would conclude treatment on Vickie, at least. You can probably keep Duchess going another few days to see if it further improves or stays the same. But I'd move Vickie into the planted tank so Duchess can chill, alone, for the remainder of the QT.

 

Great--I can't move her yet, though, since the nitrites are still dangerously high. I hope to be able to move her soon, though! 

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Ah, I thought you'd finished cycling it. Definitely wait until you're showing nitrates and the nitrites drop off. There may be a little bump when she goes in, but as long as you're testing every day or two for the first week you should notice it before it becomes an issue :)

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Ah, I thought you'd finished cycling it. Definitely wait until you're showing nitrates and the nitrites drop off. There may be a little bump when she goes in, but as long as you're testing every day or two for the first week you should notice it before it becomes an issue :)

 

OK--the saga continues.

 

I was advised on the water quality subforum to try putting the fish into the main tank so that I can do the remainder of the cycle fish-in (I have to leave the country for 3-4 days on August 12th, and will be able to monitor the cycle better at home, was the rationale). I put both fish in, but under better light, I saw that Vickie had a small white tuft on the edge of her dorsal fin and her left caudal lobe was looking uneven with white dots (that have not been going away, apparently). Here is the dorsal dot: 

 

20150802_130913_zpsd4qanvjs.jpg

 

Here is a video where you can see the dot and her tail fin better. She has been on Paraguard and .1% salt for a few weeks at 78F, though in anticipation of putting her in the main tank I unplugged the heater today. Is this a fungus? Do I need to try a short course of formalin?

 

I put her back into the QT immediately after I saw this, since I am NOT tearing down the main tank again if I don't have to. She was in the main tank water for maybe 45 seconds, ha. Poor thing. 

 

At around 29 seconds you can see the ragged quality of part of her tail and that something seems to be hanging off of the edge, similar to her dorsal tuft.

 

 

I am really going to lose it soon!

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Don't panic. Remember how I said fish are rarely in perfect condition? The salt should inhibit any fungus -panda the formalin, any parasites. Please keep an eye on it for a few days and if it spreads or worsens move them to a separate glass container and take some really good macro shots of it.

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YOu know I would like you to try is Silver... Dont know if it will work but it sure does work on wounds and such... cant hurt :) Just a thought since nothing is really working :)

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I'm actually thinking the hanging stuff is slime coat and the fun spot is nothing but the fins healing, we get the occasional pimple around here, too, and have been disease free for three months.

Could the colloidal silver be added in with the Paraguard and salt, Koko, or should we use that if needed once this treatment course is completed?

ETA - I see now they were in the main tank, which I assume means you have previously concluded your treatment cycle. Really, don't panic. I don't even think Vickie needs anything in qt but watching and salt. The colloidal silver is a better bet than the Paraguard at this point, and won't hurt anything. But I honestly don't think this is a pathogen.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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I'm actually thinking the hanging stuff is slime coat and the fun spot is nothing but the fins healing, we get the occasional pimple around here, too, and have been disease free for three months.

Could the colloidal silver be added in with the Paraguard and salt, Koko, or should we use that if needed once this treatment course is completed?

ETA - I see now they were in the main tank, which I assume means you have previously concluded your treatment cycle. Really, don't panic. I don't even think Vickie needs anything in qt but watching and salt. The colloidal silver is a better bet than the Paraguard at this point, and won't hurt anything. But I honestly don't think this is a pathogen.

 

Sorry to freak out--it's just been a bit of a trial with them lately. 

 

Vickie is back in the QT with the Paraguard. She was in the main tank for about 45 seconds, then re-scooped, and plonked back into the Paraguard-treated water. Duchess is in the main tank, though, wreaking havoc on her plants and biting the in-take sponges :-)

 

I'll try to get ahold of the colloidal silver since they both have lesions that seem to never go away. Is there a concentration I should be looking for or a brand?

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Min 500 ppm I like the 1100ppm.... no you cant use it with the Paraguard or salt :(

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Min 500 ppm I like the 1100ppm.... no you cant use it with the Paraguard or salt :(

 

That's OK--I'll stop the salt and Paraguard on Vickie tomorrow. She looks very sad to be away from Duchess, though. Poor thing.

 

I've ordered the 500 ppm silver since it was a reasonable price on Amazon! Do you recommend baths, and how do they work?

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Min 500 ppm I like the 1100ppm.... no you cant use it with the Paraguard or salt :(

 

That's OK--I'll stop the salt and Paraguard on Vickie tomorrow. She looks very sad to be away from Duchess, though. Poor thing.

 

I've ordered the 500 ppm silver since it was a reasonable price on Amazon! Do you recommend baths, and how do they work?

 

 

 

Yes we would do baths .... we need a 1-2 gallon bowl or container... Water from the tank... and if your doing the 500ppm then I would do 10 drops in the bowl... let the little one sit for up to 5 mins... can go up to 30 mins but first time around I rather see how the fish does... so 5 mins please... :) then also report on how he did...:)

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Min 500 ppm I like the 1100ppm.... no you cant use it with the Paraguard or salt :(

 

That's OK--I'll stop the salt and Paraguard on Vickie tomorrow. She looks very sad to be away from Duchess, though. Poor thing.

 

I've ordered the 500 ppm silver since it was a reasonable price on Amazon! Do you recommend baths, and how do they work?

 

 

 

Yes we would do baths .... we need a 1-2 gallon bowl or container... Water from the tank... and if your doing the 500ppm then I would do 10 drops in the bowl... let the little one sit for up to 5 mins... can go up to 30 mins but first time around I rather see how the fish does... so 5 mins please... :) then also report on how he did... :)

 

 

Great--I imagine that the silver should get here by Tuesday and I'll be sure to report how Vickie does. In the meantime I'll keep her separated from Duchess... unless you all think it would be safe to let her be in the main tank.  

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Min 500 ppm I like the 1100ppm.... no you cant use it with the Paraguard or salt :(

 

That's OK--I'll stop the salt and Paraguard on Vickie tomorrow. She looks very sad to be away from Duchess, though. Poor thing.

 

I've ordered the 500 ppm silver since it was a reasonable price on Amazon! Do you recommend baths, and how do they work?

 

 

 

Yes we would do baths .... we need a 1-2 gallon bowl or container... Water from the tank... and if your doing the 500ppm then I would do 10 drops in the bowl... let the little one sit for up to 5 mins... can go up to 30 mins but first time around I rather see how the fish does... so 5 mins please... :) then also report on how he did... :)

 

 

Great--I imagine that the silver should get here by Tuesday and I'll be sure to report how Vickie does. In the meantime I'll keep her separated from Duchess... unless you all think it would be safe to let her be in the main tank.  

 

 

Hi QandD, my pOdge is doing silver dips at the moment.  He is handling it like a trooper.  Hopefully it will help Vickie too.  :hi

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Min 500 ppm I like the 1100ppm.... no you cant use it with the Paraguard or salt :(

 

That's OK--I'll stop the salt and Paraguard on Vickie tomorrow. She looks very sad to be away from Duchess, though. Poor thing.

 

I've ordered the 500 ppm silver since it was a reasonable price on Amazon! Do you recommend baths, and how do they work?

 

 

 

Yes we would do baths .... we need a 1-2 gallon bowl or container... Water from the tank... and if your doing the 500ppm then I would do 10 drops in the bowl... let the little one sit for up to 5 mins... can go up to 30 mins but first time around I rather see how the fish does... so 5 mins please... :) then also report on how he did... :)

 

 

Great--I imagine that the silver should get here by Tuesday and I'll be sure to report how Vickie does. In the meantime I'll keep her separated from Duchess... unless you all think it would be safe to let her be in the main tank.  

 

 

Lets see what Arctic Mama Says :)

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I have zero concerns about her being in the tank. There is nothing to suggest this is going to cause issues and, quite frankly, a larger water volume and territory will probably be good for both fish. :)

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I have zero concerns about her being in the tank. There is nothing to suggest this is going to cause issues and, quite frankly, a larger water volume and territory will probably be good for both fish. :)

:thumbup2:

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