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QandD

Mystery, never-ending parasites

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If there is ammonia on the days between water changes Prime is recommended to neutralize it, but generally speaking with water changes every two days and light feeding the issue is minor.

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Well hopefully Dutchess and co. get well soon. ;)

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With one fish in a ten gallon hospital tank with no filtration and moderate feeding I do 100% water change daily -- bucket to bucket.  With two fish in a ten gallon I'd worry.  After one day, the ammonia can be over the capacity of Prime to inactivate.  

 

I don't really see a problem with using the biomedia from their tank in the hospital tank.  Pathogens may certainly be there, but not likely in large amounts -- such as the amount the fish are shedding.   I agree that medication that kills pathogens in the fish is also likely to kill them in the filter.  On the other hand, the medications may well zap the biobugs, making filtration futile.  So I'm not taking sides here.

 

Rhanrahan, you are new here,  :welcome and we would appreciate you posting an introduction in the Welcome New Members forum.  Clearly you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.  Just FYI,  our policy on D/D threads is that once a member of the moderating team (identified as moderator or helper under the avatar) has given advice, others should back off.  Following advice given by one person is challenging enough for someone upset by a sick fish, but conflicting advice really confuses.  This does not mean that you can't express disagreement.  If you believe a mod/helper is giving the wrong advice,  just hit the report button and explain what you disagree with.  The entire moderating team will discuss the report.  Also, if you want to discuss, for example, whether a filter should be used in a hospital tank, start a thread on the topic.  It should generate a lively discussion.

 

 

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Yeah, too many cooks in the kitchen type of idea. I certainly respect their experiences and knowledge, I have no doubt they are as competent as the next seasoned fish keeper, but I realize that quarantine cases are never really an exact science, it doesn't hurt to get input on alternate courses as long as it doesn't start getting destructive. It can always be taken or left as they'd like, but at the end of the day it's up to the owner to do what they believe is best for their pet. I wasn't really looking to press the issue any further its just a suggestion to consider, in the end if the fish gets better one way or another it's still a win none the less. :)

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Of course that said, I wasn't aware of how they run things here on that subject until now so I'll try to keep that in mind. I never intend any debate as personal so we're clear, were all just interested in helping fish live better lives. Anyway, thanks for the welcome, aha I am rather passionate about my gilled children... (Is gilldern a word yet?) I'll be sure to make an introducton post soon.

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I belong to a pond/koi forum that has a committee for fish health problems.  No one else can make a suggestion on a thread of that kind, and if someone tries, they aren't treated politely.  

 

Please create a thread to discuss alternative approaches.  These are always welcome.

 

Just out of curiosity, why does someone with no goldfish join a goldfish forum?  

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Fair enough, as for why I joined a goldfish site with no goldfish, basically I was watching some videos a woman had of her two orandas. Couldn't help but be intrigued, and felt the need to see and learn more of them, these are so underrated in the hobby or at least my local area... which I can't quite figure out why, ... they're such beautiful bubbly fish. But so many people want predator tanks and whatnot I guess. And though I don't have room to set up another tank yet I'll eventually have a pair of those myself in the future. The local forum I joined years ago rarely has any fun photos of these adorable fellas or opportunities to really learn about them. What can I say I'm just a fish addict of any flavor. Now that I've sorta explained that much, I don't want to fill up this thread with unnecessary posts about me, I'll be sure to do an intro post later on tonight.

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Just an update:

 

I just got home to give D&V their second dose of Furan-2, and I noticed when looking for poops that it's exclusively white and stringy (and not much of it). The ammonia is at .25 ppm and so not a concern. Is this to be expected? I thought they'd been pooping fairly normally, but perhaps the filter was sucking it up in my main tank. If it's all white and stringy I guess that Vickie must be pooping that way, too. :(

 

The other lower lobe of Vickie's tail is also splitting. They beg for food when they see me, but it seems that this is getting worse. Do I just need to wait and see? Do things get worse before they get better in this case?

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The stringy poop can also be a sign of stress, that isn't uncommon. I'd give it a few days before judging the treatment.

What you can do, in terms of water changes, is do daily changes and dose the Kanamycin daily after each change. It is twice as much medication cost, but the purpose of the bath is to maintain a solution of the kana, so redosing if you water change will not hurt things. Alternately you can dose with prime and hang in there until tomorrow. Your choice.

Please provide additional pictures or video when you can. If they are suffering from something else and this treatment doesn't knock it out, we can tweak or adjust as needed if we see what is going on.

Shredded tails or fins wouldn't be made worse by the treatment, it should help, but it might take another two or three days. If you notice things getting significantly worse in terms of clamping, flashing, color blanching, rapid breath, etc, please let us know.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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If the ammonia is only 0.25, I wouldn't do another WC.  I'd just dose Prime.  But I'm lazy.  :rest:

 

:rofl

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I decided to dose Prime since the ammonia level is quite low. I am going to try to move their airstone in case Vickie snagged her tail on it. 

 

I'll let you know if I see any turns for the worse. 

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Forgive me if I missed it...I read this thread 3 times over and didn't see...but has it been shared what the suspicion is yet?  

 

 

 

QandD...my fingers are crossed for ya hun...I can imagine you're very worried :(

Edited by Reds12

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May I have a video or Photos of the whole tank please :)

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May I have a video or Photos of the whole tank please :)

 

I will try to take some photos or a (probably not very HQ) video after I do their water change/medicine dosing this morning. They are eating and active without bottom sitting, but no normal poops, no fin improvement, etc. There is also a lot of what looks like to me to be shedded slimecoat floating around the tank water (hard to get a picture of it). 

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I just wanted to say good luck, parasites are the ultimate pain, so my thoughts are with you.

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Update with video:

 

There is an incandescent bulb on the QT and my phone's video function is also junk, so it's hard to see their tail spots, etc. This is after their water change, and you can see some of Duchess's uncontrolled swimming. She is mostly scared of my phone, though, which has always scared her for some reason. Duchess's behavior has improved slightly: she is gulping much less. However, Vickie has started gulping a bit MORE so I don't know what that's about. Neither is bottom sitting, they are excited about food and my presence (when I'm not trying to scoop them out of the tank, of course), though they are still not pooping normally. Their fins have not deteriorated further, though I have not seen any improvement.

 

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They look pretty good, not overly stressed. I did definitely see the swimming issue. At this point, please finish out treatment if things stay like this. They're tolerating it well by that video. Keep us updated, too, on ether they get worse. For some darn reason animals go downhill faster than they heal :D

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Good luck!  And Duchess looks soooooooo much like my Swimmie.   :teehee

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They look pretty good, not overly stressed. I did definitely see the swimming issue. At this point, please finish out treatment if things stay like this. They're tolerating it well by that video. Keep us updated, too, on ether they get worse. For some darn reason animals go downhill faster than they heal :D

 

Quick question: I have the fish in their holding tank while I have done their 100% WC and re-dosing of Kana and Furan-2. I was wondering if I could do a methylene blue bath in their old tank water (which is what they're being held in). Would this have contraindications or hurt them? I'd like to make sure that they're sucking up as much of the antibiotic as possible, since they are still not pooping normally, if at all. I fasted them yesterday, gave them peas the day before, and gave them Power Green today. I have seen very few poops. Vickie's tail is starting to heal a tiny bit, but I have not seen improvement in Duchess's finnage. I can't really tell if Vickie's mouth is improving.

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Never mind--I put them back into the fresh water. However, I am curious if I would be able to give them a bath during their next water change. Alternatively, would anyone recommend something like a salt dip or topical application of some kind of chemical (meth blue or H2O2) to Duchess's tail lesions? She certainly would not like it, but I would try if it would help. 

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You can do Meth blue baths up to twice daily if they are tolerating them well. Since the tank water is unsalted just put them into the meth bath while you change and medicate the main tank water.

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When they poop let me know. If you're feeding them lightly I'd expect light waste, too :)

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Update: I've seen Vickie poop normally this morning--color of her food, short, normal width. Duchess is not quite right still, though I have seen her very thin poops turning darker rather than white (it's kind of poo mixed with white casing). There is still not a lot of poop, and I fed them normally yesterday as an experiment. 

 

Fins: one of the lobes of Vickie's fins has healed, and her mouth is no longer white-patched. Duchess's fins are the same, though the new thickening on the tip of one of her tail fins (which happened after I raised temps) is now gone. I am not quite sure if I am projecting, but it seems that Duchess has more control over her swimming and both *might* be gulping less. Slow and steady wins the race? 

 

Tomorrow I will give them a meth blue bath during their water change. Also, should I be disinfecting their QT tank and hose with every water change? I've been careful not to cross equipment between the main tank and QT, but I am not sure about the protocol re: QT itself, since it would prolong their stay in the holding bucket for a good while longer. Wouldn't the antibiotics take care of the nasties?

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No, you don't need to disinfect the qt. The meds inhibit the spread at this point. Just keep your qt apparatuses and paraphernalia separate and you can PP it all when the illness has run its course. For now, drying out the nets and bowls and just putting fresh medicated water in the tank is sufficient.

I'm glad to hear they are improving. Thin poo can be normal, especially if you're feeding very small amounts at a time. My fish have those when I'm spreading their food out over 6-8 meals day. The grazing makes their poop thinner, whereas overfeeding in a sitting makes their poop thicker.

Edited by Arctic Mama

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