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We have metro powder and solient green gel food. Rather than feeding 3 year old MetroMeds, can we make our own medicated gel food?

 

We were actually feeding medicated gel food before, but was told to stop and just have metro powder in the water. Is it safe to feed both medicated food and have metro in the water?

Edited by dancingclown
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We have metro powder and solient green gel food. Rather than feeding 3 year old MetroMeds, can we make our own medicated gel food?

 

We were actually feeding medicated gel food before, but was told to stop and just have metro powder in the water. Is it safe to feed both medicated food and have metro in the water?

 

I live in Seattle, you live in Seattle. I could meet you somewhere close to me and give you some of mine. How much does your fish weigh? I'll need this to know how much MMs I need to give you that covers 14 days.

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We have metro powder and solient green gel food. Rather than feeding 3 year old MetroMeds, can we make our own medicated gel food?

We were actually feeding medicated gel food before, but was told to stop and just have metro powder in the water. Is it safe to feed both medicated food and have metro in the water?

I live in Seattle, you live in Seattle. I could meet you somewhere close to me and give you some of mine. How much does your fish weigh? I'll need this to know how much MMs I need to give you that covers 14 days.

This is your absolute best option if you can make it happen. The advantage of MMs over waterborne metro is MMs actually contains 3 medications (metro along with 2 others) vs just the metro if you did the waterborne or the food that you have . . . .
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Thanks so much for the help. I sent you a message, Lisa. I believe we would need 213*0.01*14 = 29.82 grams of Metro Meds.

 

We will up the epsom to 1 teaspoon per 5.

 

I also had a question regarding another 14 days of MM: we've already done 14+ of metronidazole in the water. Do we need to worry about overmedicating (damage to liver, kidneys, etc.)?

 

For example, a couple posts back we were warned about overdosing the metro.

 

if you're treating the tank water, there is no need to be feeding the goldfish medicine (i would be concerned for overdosing). i would treat as per recommendation from the manufacturer..

 

in fact, i would look at reducing the feeds to one or twice a day, very light meals (no medfood). change the water less. the fish could be stressing from so much handling of it or it's environment. keep it in a dark(ish) room, no direct sunlight or overhead lights.

 

I'll also take two more pictures and post them. The scales look better, although he is still upside down. I wonder if his swim bladder is just permanently damaged though...

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I'll message you with place to meet. If it were Kanaplex that you had used, I'd've worried about using more antibiotics. Kana is harder on the organs than metro.

At this point the mods are recommending the MMs. Given what is happening for your fish, I think it is worth the risk to use the antibiotics in MMs. The MMs include metro, oxytetracycline, and romet B. This combo may help your fish.

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Thanks for answering my questions. We're just worried, I think.

 

I guess I am also not sure if the scales are going down, looking at him with better lighting, and given the fact the view is from his belly:

 

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_61915%20005_zpsiyi1t5qd.jpg

 

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_61915%20003_zpsbliipr6l.jpg

 

I'll go check my messages now.

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What you don't want to do is feed metro AND have it waterborne.  That would be overdosing the daily dose which can be dangerous.  MMs can be fed up to 30 days.  Since the fish has already been IN metro for 14, I would only feed MMs for 30 days.  :D

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What you don't want to do is feed metro AND have it waterborne.  That would be overdosing the daily dose which can be dangerous.  MMs can be fed up to 30 days.  Since the fish has already been IN metro for 14, I would only feed MMs for 30 days.   :D

 

Lisa, Did you mean to say feed MMs for 14 days or for 30 days? I'm meeting the owner at 3pm today. I want to give him the right amount of MMs.

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What you don't want to do is feed metro AND have it waterborne.  That would be overdosing the daily dose which can be dangerous.  MMs can be fed up to 30 days.  Since the fish has already been IN metro for 14, I would only feed MMs for 30 days.   :D

 

Lisa, Did you mean to say feed MMs for 14 days or for 30 days? I'm meeting the owner at 3pm today. I want to give him the right amount of MMs.

 

 

Blargh.  14 days  :wa  for me. rofl  Too many things going on in my head today for a Friday.  :rofl

 

Thanks Lisa.  :D

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Ok we are at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons epsom, no metro in the water, and started the metro meds.

 

Many thanks to Lisa for her help and generosity!

 

We'll update when anything changes.

 

Thank you all again!

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Hi all,

 

So...good news (I think)! Gus's scales look like they've gone down quite a bit, almost all the way, I'd say, although it's a little hard to tell when he's upside down:

 

For reference 6/16/15 (posted already above):

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_61615%20002_zpsmx1pnhng.jpg

 

6/22/15 (new):

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_62415%20004_zps1on5kcxw.jpg

 

6/23/15:

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_62415%20010_zps2ak5v2xc.jpg

 

6/24/15:

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_62415%20017_zps4g272hgs.jpg

 

It is a little scary how effective the MMs were (relative to the other methods we tried)...

 

He's still upside-down though. His balance *may* be getting a little better; he can halfway right himself to get at food, but can't stay upright. He also is staying off the bottom less than before (so sort of bottom-sitting, but upside-down). Ammonia hasn't gotten above 0.25.

 

I know we do the full 14 days for MMs - what should we do about the epsom? How long do we keep it at 1 tsp per 5?

 

I'm hesitant to get too excited, but the scales really do look better. I'm not sure about swim bladder damage, if it's permanent, and what we do about that... But I figure I should ask about the epsom first.

 

Again, thanks to all of you so much, and to Lisa for the MMs... =).

Edited by dancingclown
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Hehe yeah... I've tried not to say anything out loud so I don't jinx anything... ;).

 

Do you happen to know what to do about the epsom? I know Jared said something above about the duration and amount of epsom, and reevaluating that - do we start reducing it now that the scales are starting to flatten?

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: Managed to miss that... Thanks, I'll keep it in a few more days.

Edited by dancingclown
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Here's an update:

 

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_62715%20001_zps5bdsvlwr.jpg

 

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa368/dancingclown/Gus_62715%20002_zpschbk0bzh.jpg

 

Feeling good about the scales. Don't see any sticking up. Gus is still upside down though. His poos look good, and he's very hungry and active when I go to feed him. But otherwise he sits on the bottom upside down when I have the lights off, and can't permanently right himself up when he's swimming.

 

We've been keeping the temperature around 80 F.

 

Any ideas about additional actions or whether to keep the epsom at this level (1 tsp per 5 gallons) given his swim bladder issues? I am curious: what happened so that we don't mind leaving in epsom in longer at higher concentrations any more?

 

Thanks!

Edited by dancingclown
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I think you can stop the Epsom.  

 

I don't know where the 8 day limit that we used to suggest using Epsom came from but after lots of reading and trying higher concentrations for longer periods of time on our own fish without any negative outcomes, we are comfortable suggesting the higher concentrations for longer than 8 days.  :D

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How deep is the water that Gus is in? For fishies with swim bladder issues, if you put them in shallower water (4-6 inches) they get around much easier. Some people have an indoor ponds in this case. You could try this in the current tank, and see if Gus gets around easier and is able to right himself. You'll need to change water more frequently.

Here is something Sharon wrote regarding shallow water for fish presenting with swim bladder issues

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/120855-and-then-a-miracle-occurs/

Edited by LisaCGold
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Huh that link is super interesting. The tank is just a 10 gallon, so this one is maybe...about the long end of a piece of paper, I think, so maybe 11 inches.

 

I'll try lowering the water some - I can't see that it'd hurt. I'm changing the water about 3 times a day right now, so I'll see how much worse the ammonia gets.

 

Otherwise, I'm taking the epsom down to zero (by not replacing it during water changes). Gus really seems active, and super hungry, which is good. Just the upside down thing going on now...

 

Thanks! (And thanks for the info on the epsom duration - just wanted to understand).

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If you find the shallow water works better for Gus, something like this http://www.amazon.com/Sterilite-19608006-41-Quart-Underbed-See-Through/dp/B002BA5F4I/ref=sr_1_7?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1435512232&sr=1-7&keywords=sterilite+tub could serve as a "pond" for Gus while his swim bladder rehabilitates.

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Yeah it's been hard to tell if the shallow water helps. I haven't been able to leave it shallow for too long, because the ammonia builds up pretty quickly (it becomes like 3-5 gallons of water, and Gus is a pretty big fish...). So pretty much only when I'm at home and I'm able to change the water frequently. It seems like he stays on his back/side mostly regardless of the water depth.

 

But - I have been noticing something I thought was interesting lately. Sometimes he hangs out near the bubbler, and seems to eat the air? And sometimes he tries to get to the top to take a gulp (and sometimes fails =().

 

I don't really know how the swim bladder works - is it possible he needs to refill it with air or something? So maybe the shorter depth would help, if it's easier to get to the surface. If it doesn't improve, we can try the large shallow tub you linked to.

 

Man he's hungry though. I tried helping him to the top so he could gulp, but he just kept trying to eat my hand instead. I thought 1% of body weight was a lot of food...

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Here is some information about swim bladders http://saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/BIO308-Wiki-Swim-Bladder.pdf

Hunger is a good sign!

I can't find the post on this right now, but you can do some "physical therapy" on your fish when the water level is lower. This requires more patience and effort on your part. Gently cup your fish in the upright position, and guide him to stay upright by gently using your finger to tap him upright when he tips. Over a couple of days work up to guiding your fish to swim by gently cupping your fish in the upright position and slowly moving your cupped hand through the water. At times you'll just be carrying your fish through the water, other times he will be moving on his own in an upright position. You can try this initially for a couple of minutes each day, then twice a day for a couple minutes each time, etc. At first it will be tiring for the fish so make sure not to over do it. Over time the hope is the fish gains more stamina and swim bladder function returns.

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