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Ragged fins after Kusuri treatment


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  • Regular Member
  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)0-0.25 (both tanks)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)0 (both tanks)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)5 and 10 
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)I will get them later
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)I will get them later
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)I will get them later
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)7.4-7.8 I think (both tanks)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)I will get them later
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature? Don't know but quite cold but not below 18C I believe 
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 32 and 33 gallon running for over a year at least 
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? two internal filters 1-1000l/h and 1-800l/h (different tanks and different brands but I don't know the full filter names) and both tanks have a marina slim filter s20-600l/h
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 90% usually 1-2 weeks
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?I believe 3 and 5 days ago (may be 4 days ago for one but I'm not sure)
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?3 in both tanks now ranging from about 6-11cm TL
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime water conditioner
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Soilent green usually 1-2 times a day and sometimes blood worms every few weeks
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? not for well over a month maybe 2 months
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Kusuri and salt but I have stopped now
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Kusuri and salt at 0.1% for three rounds 
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? excess slime coat, ragged fins
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? bottom sitting and one now floats head down and gets stuck to the filter often

     

 

So i have loosely been following the 5 day treatment schedule as I have been sick and have had a lot of homework and I have just finished round three but I think I'm going to stop it as I have sadly lost Darcy and the new little shubunkin and all my other goldfish have ragged fins and I don't want to loose any more. I have performed a 90% in the tank Darcy and the shubunkin were in yesterday but I woke up and found them both dead and I am about to perform a 90% on my other tank but what should I do the ragged fins are pretty bad and a couple of the goldfish had maybe one or two rips in their tails and I thought it was just from when I weighed them but all the goldfish's tails are ragged and diminishing everyday  :( ;(

 

I have also lost another goldfish called Gizmo and my blue oranda is floating head down :(

 

I will get the photos of them later as I can't find the camera at the minute :(

 

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I'm so sorry for your losses! Have you investigated other ectoparasites? When I had fish who didn't respond to multiple prazipro rounds it turned out we needed a different anti parasitic treatment to do the trick. The symptoms don't sound like flukes, but possibly another parasite and secondary infections setting in. I'd need more info to be sure. Any pictures you can share?

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Okay. I just caught up with your other thread. Were you able to get the Kanaplex and Metronidazole that Lisa mentioned?

It definitely sounds like secondary bacterial infections have set in, all parasite issues aside, and will need to be treated promptly to help your remaining fish. The Kusuri doesn't seem to be eradicating whatever ails your sweet pets.

A mod will be along to help shortly. Hang in there and I'm wishing your fish the very best!

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Okay. I just caught up with your other thread. Were you able to get the Kanaplex and Metronidazole that Lisa mentioned?

It definitely sounds like secondary bacterial infections have set in, all parasite issues aside, and will need to be treated promptly to help your remaining fish. The Kusuri doesn't seem to be eradicating whatever ails your sweet pets.

A mod will be along to help shortly. Hang in there and I'm wishing your fish the very best!

I wasn't able to persuade my mum to allow me to buy it but I have some meds that may be able to fight a bacterial infection until I can buy some :)
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Can you give us a quick rundown of what you have on hand? That will help the minds advise treatments. Please fill out the D&D form when you can, too, so we don't accidentally advise incorrectly and have the history all on one spot in this new thread :)

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Can you give us a quick rundown of what you have on hand? That will help the minds advise treatments. Please fill out the D&D form when you can, too, so we don't accidentally advise incorrectly and have the history all on one spot in this new thread :)

Already filled the d&d form out and here is a list of what I have medication wise that can fight bacterial infections:

Tetra goldfish goldmed

eSHa 2000

I have some other meds but not for bacterial infections etc.

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Are the other fish sick? I'd really, really advise against combining them, unless they're already all showing symptoms, because we don't wat to be needlessly exposing healthy fish to either disease or medicine.

I have four tanks, so I get the pain in the butt of water changes when one or two of them needs daily care! I usually just set up a schedule for the other tanks where I knock them out once per week, altogether, and then it's just the daily changes on the single hospital tank :)

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Are the other fish sick? I'd really, really advise against combining them, unless they're already all showing symptoms, because we don't wat to be needlessly exposing healthy fish to either disease or medicine.

I have four tanks, so I get the pain in the butt of water changes when one or two of them needs daily care! I usually just set up a schedule for the other tanks where I knock them out once per week, altogether, and then it's just the daily changes on the single hospital tank :)

Both goldfish tanks are ill and I'm down to 6 goldfish that are all showing signs of ragged fins :(
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How big is the tank you'd put them all in? If it is 30-40 gallons I'd really think twice daily water changes would be best, because those are very crowded conditions. If it is bigger once daily should work.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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How big is the tank you'd put them all in? If it is 30-40 gallons I'd really think twice daily water changes would be best, because those are very crowded conditions. If it is bigger once daily should work.

It was going to be a 30 gallon so I think I will stick with two tanks then also what should I do to stop the bacterial infection/ slow it down??

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Please post video of your fish and test your tap water parameters and post here. We want to suggest a change in your water changes schedule, but we need to know your tap water parameters to do that. 3 fish in a 30+ gallon tank requires more water changes than 90% every 1-2 weeks, but, again, we need to know your tap water parameters.

 

Regarding ammonia in your tank--it looks like your tank is experiencing a cycle bump. Until your cycle reestablishes, please feed your fish lightly and use Prime to detoxify the ammonia. Do you have any idea as to why your tanks are experiencing a cycle bump?

 

The video of your tanks and fish will help the moderators to observe your fish and see your tank. This will help them to provide guidance.

 

Do you have a heater on hand? Increasing the temperature will help boost the fish's immune system during this time of stress. 22-25C would be good.

 

Regarding filters, please do some research to find out the output (gallons per hour - gph) for each filter. You may find this information online. Ideally you want 10x the size of the tank - for a 30 gallon tank, you'll want 300 gph output (unless you have canister filters than 7x is good). With 3 fish in a 30+ gallon tank you will probably need more output than 10x, but I think more water changes are better.

 

I know I've asked you a lot. Before the moderators recommend a treatment involving medicine (especially something along the lines of antibiotics), we provide information to help you in ensuring that your tank system is in optimal condition to support the health of your fish.

Edited by LisaCGold
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What Lisa said! We really want to help but the mod's will be able to be much more effective if all factors in the tank are accounted for. We don't want to accidentally hurt your fish with contradictory or bad information because we assumed a parameter that was incorrect :)

:grouphug

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I don't think the Kusuri or the salt are to blame for the ragged fins or losses.  Are you still turning the filters off at night and when you leave.  As I mentioned a while back, I am concerned that this is going to cause major problems for your goldfish :(

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Please post video of your fish and test your tap water parameters and post here. We want to suggest a change in your water changes schedule, but we need to know your tap water parameters to do that. 3 fish in a 30+ gallon tank requires more water changes than 90% every 1-2 weeks, but, again, we need to know your tap water parameters.

 

Sorry I haven't replied earlier but I keep getting caught up with homework and life in general so I will go and test my tap params straight after I post this post as I takes me a while to test them correctly without spilling chemicals all over the floor :)

 

Regarding ammonia in your tank--it looks like your tank is experiencing a cycle bump. Until your cycle reestablishes, please feed your fish lightly and use Prime to detoxify the ammonia. Do you have any idea as to why your tanks are experiencing a cycle bump?

 

My tank seems to constantly be on a cycle bump for some reason and I don't understand why seeing as I dose with prime and I have moved a lot of fish to my pond and it has had hints of ammonia for nearly 2 months now I believe and the fish acted fine until now so I will keep changing water and dosing with extra prime.

 

The video of your tanks and fish will help the moderators to observe your fish and see your tank. This will help them to provide guidance.

 

I will get a video asap but would pictures help as well or should I just go with a video??

 

Do you have a heater on hand? Increasing the temperature will help boost the fish's immune system during this time of stress. 22-25C would be good.

 

I only have one spare heater as the only other adequate heater that would fit one of the tanks is in my tropical tank and the one I have spare is just strong enough to heat one of the tanks :(

 

Regarding filters, please do some research to find out the output (gallons per hour - gph) for each filter. You may find this information online. Ideally you want 10x the size of the tank - for a 30 gallon tank, you'll want 300 gph output (unless you have canister filters than 7x is good). With 3 fish in a 30+ gallon tank you will probably need more output than 10x, but I think more water changes are better.

 

On one tank I have about 422 gph but it is most likely less and the other tank I have about 369 gph but it is more likely less considering media and age of the filters etc.

 

I know I've asked you a lot. Before the moderators recommend a treatment involving medicine (especially something along the lines of antibiotics), we provide information to help you in ensuring that your tank system is in optimal condition to support the health of your fish.

 

Ask as many questions as you like as long as it will help resolve the problems with my fish then I don't see why asking too many questions is a problem :)

Edited by goldfishfanforever
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By not having the filters on consistently, the environment of your tanks is not very healthy for goldfish. While this appears to have worked for two months, the cumulative effect of not having the filters on consistently is most likely the results you are now witnessing with your fish, including the cycle bump. I'm afraid that everything we do to your tanks really won't matter if the filters have to be turned off at night and every time you leave home.

 

Regarding the use of Prime and still seeing ammonia in your tank. Prime will detoxify a certain amount of ammonia for a 24 hour period. During that time ammonia will still show up on your tests but it will be in less toxic form. Ideally the beneficial bacteria in your tank system will convert the ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate. This is done best with filters that are consistently on.

 

If I were you, I would enjoy goldfish in your outdoor pond and not put them in aquariums in which adequate filtration is not possible. I would love to have an outdoor pond. If I had one, I don't know if I would have indoor aquariums at all.

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Tap params are:

 

pH: somewhere around 7-8 I can't tell on either test

 

ammonia: 0.25

 

nitrite: 0

 

nitrate: 0

 

also I just tested both tanks and they seem to be around 0 - 0.25 so should i double dose prime??

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By not having the filters on consistently, the environment of your tanks is not very healthy for goldfish. While this appears to have worked for two months, the cumulative effect of not having the filters on consistently is most likely the results you are now witnessing with your fish, including the cycle bump. I'm afraid that everything we do to your tanks really won't matter if the filters have to be turned off at night and every time you leave home.

 

Regarding the use of Prime and still seeing ammonia in your tank. Prime will detoxify a certain amount of ammonia for a 24 hour period. During that time ammonia will still show up on your tests but it will be in less toxic form. Ideally the beneficial bacteria in your tank system will convert the ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate. This is done best with filters that are consistently on.

 

If I were you, I would enjoy goldfish in your outdoor pond and not put them in aquariums in which adequate filtration is not possible. I would love to have an outdoor pond. If I had one, I don't know if I would have indoor aquariums at all.

The reason why all of the goldfish I had indoors were indoors was because they would either a) get eaten by my bigger fish ie. my sturgeon or bigger goldfish or my koi and b) the telescopes (which I had 4 of) were going to stay inside with 2 in each 30 gallon tank as one of them only has one eye and I am afraid they would have no chance against my more brutal fish sadly :(

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Can you talk your parents into letting you run one air pump during the night? I think you could avoid the worst power usage by plugging in a single, good sponge filter and leaving it going 24/7, and just using syphoning for the rest of your mechanical filtration. No power filters or canisters, but very effective and simple biological filtration. It's going to eat much, much less power and be much more healthful for your fish.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/sponge_filtration.html

If your parents can't even allow an airstone to be going, I think it would be wisest to rehome your fish, or you're setting yourself up for heartbreak and continual illness in your tanks because of the fluctuating water parameters. Goldfish can adapt to a wide range of conditions, but they cannot adapt to continually changing water quality and oxygenation. It will weaken and kill them, as you've seen.

The sponge filtration is going to be dirt cheap and much, much better than your current setup. It takes almost no power and easy maintenance. Offer to pay then $3-5 per week to cover the cost of running the pump, if you must.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Can you talk your parents into letting you run one air pump during the night? I think you could avoid the worst power usage by plugging in a single, good sponge filter and leaving it going 24/7, and just using syphoning for the rest of your mechanical filtration. No power filters or canisters, but very effective and simple biological filtration. It's going to eat much, much less power and be much more healthful for your fish.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/sponge_filtration.html

If your parents can't even allow an airstone to be going, I think it would be wisest to rehome your fish, or you're setting yourself up for heartbreak and continual illness in your tanks because of the fluctuating water parameters. Goldfish can adapt to a wide range of conditions, but they cannot adapt to continually changing water quality and oxygenation. It will weaken and kill them, as you've seen.

The sponge filtration is going to be dirt cheap and much, much better than your current setup. It takes almost no power and easy maintenance. Offer to pay then $3-5 per week to cover the cost of running the pump, if you must.

It's not that they don't want my fish to be healthy or anything its just they think it is a fire hazard leaving them on at night or through the day :(

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One other thing I forgot to add in my other post is don't fish need to rest so wouldn't the current blow them around when they try and rest and cause them to get stuck to filters throughout the night??

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I'm sorry, but they're being idiotic. Really. There is no nicer way to say it. There is zero fire hazard with a small airpump, unless a nightlight, pilot light in an oven, or desk lamp are also fire hazards.

This is non negotiable, you have to have filtration of some sort on 24/7. You just have to. Your poor pets are sick and dying not because you don't care and aren't trying to do your best, but because you cannot make up for the damage of inconsistent parameters between day and night.

An air pump is just an armature and an air bladder vibrating. It is so simple mechanically, and draws so little power, that even if it were to somehow get wet and short out it would do nothing more than making a zinging noise and be dead. If they need research into the safety of these pumps and filters we can help provide that, but this is a non negotiable point in keeping indoor fish. Please rehome them if they cannot be convinced, because it's more humane for them to die wuickly by a bird outside than die slowly of illness indoors.

I feel badly for *you* - I know you're trying your best. But this is like bailing out a sinking boat with a straw - all the effort in the world won't overcome the main problem, which is the lack of consistent filtration 24/7.

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