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Pump suggestions?


Reds12

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A recent storm rained so hard that water got into my plugs and fried out my pond pumps - boo!!!

 

So, I'm looking for suggestions....I searched amazon, but am having trouble pulling the trigger.  My pond is 600-700 gallons, but I'm open to suggestions on smaller sizes as I have the option to set up two pumps if need be - I ran two prior to this blow out.

 

Also, if you know of any pond products/boxes to water protect the electrical, that'd be great!  My home depot outdoor breaker obviously didn't do the trick. :(

 

I have all the filtration etc, just need the pumps to move the water.  THANK YOU!!!!!!!

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I have a thing for the Beckett pond pumps. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00827GW2S?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00

 

This is the one I have on my 127 gallon pond. It has withstood quite a bit, and the sponge on the intake can be replaced with whatever you'd like to use to prevent large debris from entering the pump. Right now I don't have anything on it, but everything that it sucks up gets completely shredded by the impeller and sent to my filter! It really is a little powerhouse. They have both smaller and larger models, too. 

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For a 600-700 gallon pond,  you need a pump of at least 1200 gph.  Have you ever shown us your pond?  With a pond of this size, you should consider putting in a retrofit bottom drain going to a settling chamber of some kind, and moving the pump out of the pond.  I'm currently doing this with all my ponds, no matter how small.  

 

It costs more to run two pumps than one large one with the same gph.  There are a lot of good pumps out there, but the electricity to run them is a lot bigger expense than the initial price.

 

For example, the Laguna Max-Flo 1350 uses 75 watts. The Total Pond 1200 uses 110 watts.  The Oase Aquamax Eco Classic 1900 (What a name to type!) uses 70 watts.  A lot of pumps of similar flow rates use almost twice as much energy and still claim to be energy efficient.

 

The best thing I can recommend for in-pond prefiltration is to make yourself a larger version of one of these.  Get a tote with a latch cover, drill holes in the top, put the pump in the bottom and put layers of filter pads between the pump and the lid.  When you pull it out to clean it, the water inside will be filthy, but the pump will be fine.  This type of structure it makes it impossible to accidentally empty your pond, since once the water level drops below the top of the box no more water goes to the pump.

 

The sponge prefilters actually do clean the  water before it goes into the pump.  Of course, you have to clean the sponge every day.

 

Please get an electrician to install a proper GFI outlet with a cover against rain.  Electricity and ponds make a situation way too dangerous for DIY solutions.

 

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For a 600-700 gallon pond,  you need a pump of at least 1200 gph.  Have you ever shown us your pond?  With a pond of this size, you should consider putting in a retrofit bottom drain going to a settling chamber of some kind, and moving the pump out of the pond.  I'm currently doing this with all my ponds, no matter how small.  

 

It costs more to run two pumps than one large one with the same gph.  There are a lot of good pumps out there, but the electricity to run them is a lot bigger expense than the initial price.

 

For example, the Laguna Max-Flo 1350 uses 75 watts. The Total Pond 1200 uses 110 watts.  The Oase Aquamax Eco Classic 1900 (What a name to type!) uses 70 watts.  A lot of pumps of similar flow rates use almost twice as much energy and still claim to be energy efficient.

 

The best thing I can recommend for in-pond prefiltration is to make yourself a larger version of one of these.  Get a tote with a latch cover, drill holes in the top, put the pump in the bottom and put layers of filter pads between the pump and the lid.  When you pull it out to clean it, the water inside will be filthy, but the pump will be fine.  This type of structure it makes it impossible to accidentally empty your pond, since once the water level drops below the top of the box no more water goes to the pump.

 

The sponge prefilters actually do clean the  water before it goes into the pump.  Of course, you have to clean the sponge every day.

 

Please get an electrician to install a proper GFI outlet with a cover against rain.  Electricity and ponds make a situation way too dangerous for DIY solutions.

 

I'm looking more towards about 2000 gph.  I don't think 1200 is enough, and haven't seen much inbetween that is actually available right now.  I can dial down the GPH anyways if I need to, but I don't think it'll be necessary.  I wasn't thinking about the extra power to RUN two pumps though if I were to...I was running two before (upgraded pond and just added a second pump to our preexisting one) so I already have the equipment, and was getting water pulled from both sides of the pond, so was thinking of the benefit of that along with the security that if one burns out I still have the other.  I suppose as long as I have my inflow opposite from where my pump is I should get decent enough movement as long as enough water is moving the get proper circulation.  Using less energy and having less pre-filters to clean sounds like a better option anyways.

 

No electrician needed :)  Our outlets are proper GFI outlets...I was using an outdoor "waterproof" box with a timer, which obviously didn't do its job.  I might just plug everything right into the wall and build a small roof over that area.

 

I have seen you mention bottom drains before I believe...did you happen to do a thread about them?  I didn't put one in initially because I wasn't confident on the steps and its not a huge pond, but I may have to reconsider that.  It would definitely be helpful to a cleaning regime.

Edited by Reds12
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Have you tested the pumps in other electrical outlets? Is the outlet you used a gfci outlet? It may have popped. Oops now I see it was a gfci. I doubt both pumps fried. Try resetting the outlet and check the breaker at the box as well.

Edited by DieselPlower
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Good.  Look for high efficiency submersible pumps in the range you want.  Laguna is highly respected and very efficient.  The one complaint I've heard about it is that the actual gph is less than other pumps with similar "claimed" gph.  I don't know if that is true.

 

When going to larger pumps you should consider the possible need to adjust the diameter of your plumbing.  Currently I have changed most of  my pond plumbing from hose to pvc pipes.  I did it first on a little pond in which a too-long hose  kept collecting debris.  I hate to cut things just in case I want to reuse them.  So I decided to try some pvc going from the pump to the filter and put the hose aside for future use.  I didn't make it pretty, just convenient, with a pipe going up from the pump and then across the pond to the top of the filter.  When I turned it on, it blew my mind.  The pipe was the same diameter as the hose, but the flow coming out of the filter was about 4 times faster than what I had before.  Hoses get kinks.  They bend as you fit them into place.  Debris collects in the bends.  The larger hoses are corrugated.  All of these things increase friction and slow flow.  I knew this, but I didn't expect that much change.

 

As a result of this observation, I have been replacing all of the hoses with pipes.  After I get the retrofit bottom drains and radial flow filters set up, I can run the pipes behind the ponds instead of having them floating in air above the ponds, LOL. 

 

You can buy a retrofit bottom drain or make one yourself.  For more DIY builds go to Koiphen and search "DIY Retro bottom drain".  You'll get some simpler builds.  There are also some nice diagrams there that I have not figured out how to copy.  I take the bottom drain to a radial flow filter, which is a  kind of settling tank.  

 

DIYfilter2_zpsc015937a.jpg

 

DIYfilter_zpsc0711970.jpg

 

Here's

of a build of one of these.  I enjoyed when he pointed out how he closed off a hole in the wrong place.  I have a lot of those, LOL.

 

My radial flow filter empties into an identical container that contains the pond pump.  The water has moved by gravity from the pond to the radial flow filter to the pump container.  The pump sends the water to the biofilter.

 

I siphon the crud out of the radial flow filter daily.  The biofilter stays pretty clean.

 

Is your pond in or above ground?  Lined or container?

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Good.  Look for high efficiency submersible pumps in the range you want.  Laguna is highly respected and very efficient.  The one complaint I've heard about it is that the actual gph is less than other pumps with similar "claimed" gph.  I don't know if that is true.

 

When going to larger pumps you should consider the possible need to adjust the diameter of your plumbing.  Currently I have changed most of  my pond plumbing from hose to pvc pipes.  I did it first on a little pond in which a too-long hose  kept collecting debris.  I hate to cut things just in case I want to reuse them.  So I decided to try some pvc going from the pump to the filter and put the hose aside for future use.  I didn't make it pretty, just convenient, with a pipe going up from the pump and then across the pond to the top of the filter.  When I turned it on, it blew my mind.  The pipe was the same diameter as the hose, but the flow coming out of the filter was about 4 times faster than what I had before.  Hoses get kinks.  They bend as you fit them into place.  Debris collects in the bends.  The larger hoses are corrugated.  All of these things increase friction and slow flow.  I knew this, but I didn't expect that much change.

 

As a result of this observation, I have been replacing all of the hoses with pipes.  After I get the retrofit bottom drains and radial flow filters set up, I can run the pipes behind the ponds instead of having them floating in air above the ponds, LOL. 

 

You can buy a retrofit bottom drain or make one yourself.  For more DIY builds go to Koiphen and search "DIY Retro bottom drain".  You'll get some simpler builds.  There are also some nice diagrams there that I have not figured out how to copy.  I take the bottom drain to a radial flow filter, which is a  kind of settling tank.  

 

DIYfilter2_zpsc015937a.jpg

 

DIYfilter_zpsc0711970.jpg

 

Here's

of a build of one of these.  I enjoyed when he pointed out how he closed off a hole in the wrong place.  I have a lot of those, LOL.

 

My radial flow filter empties into an identical container that contains the pond pump.  The water has moved by gravity from the pond to the radial flow filter to the pump container.  The pump sends the water to the biofilter.

 

I siphon the crud out of the radial flow filter daily.  The biofilter stays pretty clean.

 

Is your pond in or above ground?  Lined or container?

 

A slow reply from me, but I definitely took your wealth of knowledge into account and have been doing a bit of reading/youtube watching.  So, a few things:

 

1. I definitely think you're onto something with swapping out tubing for pvc pipe.  It'll stay cleaner, and will keep my pump precisely where I want it.  I find the tubing never really cooperates and I have to fight with it to get it to sit how I want.  Its a constant source of annoyance for me.

 

2.The link for DIY retrofit bottom drain - BANG ON.  The is exactly what I need.  Thank you.

 

3. I like the idea of a radial flow filter.  With how bad the drought is here, running the bottom drain to a runoff pipe is not a very good idea, so having a settling tank/radial flow filter is a great option for here.  I take it they aren't for everyone from the comments on the videos I've watched, but it all about water conservation for me.  I can still use some of the water and nutrients for my plants, and save the bulk of it to go back into the pond.

 

I've done up a very simple sketch up of a future (summer?) project based off of a few things, and am looking forward to incorporating a radial flow filter into it.

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I have to tell you that,  even for someone as handy as you, putting extra steps into the filtration system with a retrofit bottom drain and a settling tank, requires learning some new things.  Those koi people with koi ponds with real bottom drains,  assorted mechanical and biofilters,  complex plumbing, skimmers, etc.  have already dealt with keeping balance in a complex system.  So they can put a retrofit bottom drain, a settling tank, and a pump container on a stock tank and have it working perfectly in an afternoon.

 

I built a small "model" aquaponics system, primarily to meet all of the challenges before I built a larger one.  I have a flow of retro bottom drain to radial flow filter to pump bucket (all gravity)  then pump to biofilter  (then gravity again) to grow bed to fish tank.  I knew about the phenomenon called "drop down" which says that if you have a series of connected containers  and flow water into the first one and out of the last one, you will have a lower water level in each successive container.  I also knew that bends in the pipe would slow water flow.  In spite of this, I needed about three weeks (some of it spent pouting) figuring out how to keep the pump from emptying the pump bucket.  It works fine now.  

 

Before you build, make up a detailed diagram and description of your plan and I can help debug it.  

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I was wondering if you tried your pumps in other outlets?

 

I did :)  The one pump plug was actually burned.  The others looked ok but they don't work.  Luckily when my husband was at the store and was talking to an employee about outdoor equipment the employee said the plug we were using should not have done that and told us to bring the pumps and plugs back.  We haven't yet, so hopefully customer service agrees with him when we actually do.  :) If they don't, oh well, but its a nice offer in the meantime.

 

I have to tell you that,  even for someone as handy as you, putting extra steps into the filtration system with a retrofit bottom drain and a settling tank, requires learning some new things.  Those koi people with koi ponds with real bottom drains,  assorted mechanical and biofilters,  complex plumbing, skimmers, etc.  have already dealt with keeping balance in a complex system.  So they can put a retrofit bottom drain, a settling tank, and a pump container on a stock tank and have it working perfectly in an afternoon.

 

I built a small "model" aquaponics system, primarily to meet all of the challenges before I built a larger one.  I have a flow of retro bottom drain to radial flow filter to pump bucket (all gravity)  then pump to biofilter  (then gravity again) to grow bed to fish tank.  I knew about the phenomenon called "drop down" which says that if you have a series of connected containers  and flow water into the first one and out of the last one, you will have a lower water level in each successive container.  I also knew that bends in the pipe would slow water flow.  In spite of this, I needed about three weeks (some of it spent pouting) figuring out how to keep the pump from emptying the pump bucket.  It works fine now.  

 

Before you build, make up a detailed diagram and description of your plan and I can help debug it.  

 

I have been working on the start of a diagram, and have a rough sketch up of a set up, but haven't even attempted to work out specifics yet.  I have to actually go outside and play around to get an idea of where I need things to sit and fully expect to have to redo things a few times. :)  I'm sure there will be some degree of trial and error, but I will definitely post a diagram for input from others when the time comes.    I have some time to figure it out since I won't have the actual time to build it for probably a few weeks.  Luckily I already have a bunch of stuff in my garage I can play around with before using the materials that would actually go onto the pond, so I might get some input along the way.  Worst case scenario if it doesn't work...I open a ball socket on the bottom drain, fill the settling tank, fill the pump bucket, (let it run until the pump bucket is full) close the ball socket, THEN turn on the pump and wait until it drains, turn off the pump, repeat as necessary.  Not the most efficient way, but if it doesn't work otherwise, not the end of the world either.

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The one thing I've been curious about...if anyone has used any sort of pool-type pump and vacuum to actually just vacuum their pond.  Cutting out an opening higher up in the pond that would double as a skimmer and hooking up a pool-type pump that can be turned on and a vacuum plugged into it interests me.  I would be more confident in my work not leaking when I'm not home and draining the entire thing...

 

Something like this.  The pump hooks up to the bottom of this and a round plate attached to the vacuum plugs the skimmer box and causes the pump to suction from the vacuum instead.

 

http://www.poolandspastuff.com/Graphics%20Olympic/Skimmers/ACM-19300%20Iso.jpg

 

In a square and flat bottomed pond, it seems like it would be effective, no?

Edited by Reds12
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