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Floaty Ranchu


Eddie

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Hello.

I am new to the forum and apologize that my first post is to ask for help with my little Ranchu.  His name is Tank.

 

He has SBD.  Not sure what caused it to flare up so bad this time.  He has had issues before but not to this extent.

 

He is 3 years old.  He is normally in an 80 gallon with 5 other fish.  A 5-6” incl tail moor, two 3.5” off spring of my ranchu and moor, a 2 ¼” pearlscale, 1 ¾” ranchu.  The last two are fairly new.  I did the quarantine with salt and Prazi for the last two before adding to the main tank.

It has an Aquaclear 70, an Eheim Pro 3 2075 and two airstones.

I do 80% water changes every 5 days and dose tap water with Prime.

Normally feed Hikari Lionhead pellets, peas every 2-3 days and frozen brine shimp/bloodworms 3 times a week.

I’m pretty good at monitoring and maintaining water quality so I am at a loss.

 

I would appreciate any help.  This is my wife’s favourite fish!  Why does it always have to be “THAT” fish? L

 

Here is what I have done so far:

May 25-27 fasting

 

May 27 100% wc

Metroplex and kanaplex

 

May 28 2 x ¼” cubes of NLS Algae gel

Double dose of Prime

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

•   Test Results for the Following:

◦                     * Ammonia Level(Tank) .25

◦                     * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

◦                     * Nitrate level(Tank) 0

◦                     * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0-.25

◦                     * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0

◦                     * Nitrate level(Tap) 0

◦                     * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 6 tested twice, seems low

◦                     * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 6.6

◦                     Other Required Info:

▪    * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master

▪    * Water temperature? 24 degrees

▪    * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 10 g hospital tank 2 weeks

▪    * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? floss/bubbler filter

▪    * How often do you change the water and how much? 90% every 2 days

•   * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday 90%

•   * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 Ranchu 3 1/2”

•   * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

•   * What do you feed your fish and how often? NLS algae gel

•   * Any new fish added to the tank? no

•   * Any medications added to the tank? yes

•   * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment

¼ teaspoon of Epsom, 2 part metroplex and kanaplex both Seachem

•   * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?  2 small red dots at vent

•   * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Floating upside down.  Swims normally but floats to the top upside down as soon as he stops swimming.  Rights himself and eats fine.

 

IMG_3487.jpg

 

This is the video from my photobucket

http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rookiespey/media/Goldfish/20150527_195352.mp4.html

Edited by Eddie
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Try and separate him into a QT tank. Keep the water low and not a lot of flow in the water - just put in an air stone. Feed lightly with mainly peas and fast for a few days after feeding. Watch for poop... if he poops normal, then you can rule out any digistive problems. Then it is his swim bladder that is faulty or damaged. Little can be done to that, in my experience, sadly.

 

There will be a mod shortly (they are pretty fast in here) and give you more advise or ask more questions. Shift recovering to your fish!

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Yes, I'd guess we are either looking at a congenital swim bladder defect or constipation. Any pictures or descriptions of his poop? Isolating him in his own tank will help you observe that more effectively :).

Hang tight for a mod and welcome to the forum, Eddie!

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Thanks fancyblackgold and arctic mama.

He is already in a qt tank.

Sorry it was misleading as I was giving background on the fish and his normal housing.

 

His poop is the color of the food he eats.  Not stringy.

Edited by Eddie
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Woke up this am and the poop was stringy and clear.  The two tiny red dots by his vent are gone as well.

I am treating with kanaplex and metroplex thinking it may be bacterial or parasites.

I am going to do a 80% wc and redose the meds.

Any thoughts?

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Hello! Sorry to hear about your floaty fish.

 

Since you've started the antibiotics, please continue them until you hear otherwise from a moderator. Metro for 14 days and kana for 12 days.

 

Your ph is quite low for a goldfish. Ideally 7.0 and above is best just so long as the ph is stable. My tank water is about 8.2. See below my signature for information on how to buffer your water to increase your kh which will increase your ph. You'll need a kh test kit to do this correctly. Also don't raise the ph too quickly as that will stress your fish. You'll want to do this in your main tank also.

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I had a "Doh!' moment.

My ph reads 7.2 city and tanks.

So weird.  I double checked and did it twice yesterday.

I'll keep going with the meds as you suggested Lisa.

Thanks.

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I agree that this is probably a swim bladder defect.  But, I would still try an elimination diet while you have him separated.  Try feeding one small meal a day of only one food.  Do this for a few days and then switch to another food and observe for improvements.  I don't think the antibiotics will help, but I agree that you should continue them along with the Epsom Salt now that you've started.  There is a chance that it could be an infection.

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I agree that this is probably a swim bladder defect.  But, I would still try an elimination diet while you have him separated.  Try feeding one small meal a day of only one food.  Do this for a few days and then switch to another food and observe for improvements.  I don't think the antibiotics will help, but I agree that you should continue them along with the Epsom Salt now that you've started.  There is a chance that it could be an infection.

Thank Jared.

I'm hoping it is bacterial.  I have been reading the old posts from here trying to figure this out. 

He has been on NLS algae gel the last 2 days.  Very small meals.

 

His poop has been consistently clear and stringy.

 

This is him today.  Not as upside down as yesterday.  :idont 

Fingers crossed...

 

I'll keep on the meds and salt for now.

 

20150529_093305.jpg

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Tank is not looking to good.  

He swims and eats ok at times but his anal fins are looking white and tattered.  Most likely from being exposed to the air.

He spends most of the time floating at the top of the tank.  

I put a little shelf under the water line in the hospital tank so he could use that to keep from floating to the surface.  He used it for a few minutes and now is floating on the opposite side of the tank from the shelf.

 

I am day 8 of the metroplex, kanaplex and epsom salt.  

 

Thoughts?  :idont 

Edited by Eddie
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I'm sorry to hear he isn't doing well. We wil let the mods weigh in, but it could be that he has a malformed swim bladder and when he eats it is enough pressure on it to cause floatiness. Sometimes a little poo backed up is the straw that breaks the camel's back, so to speak.

If it was an infection I'd be expecting better responsiveness by a week into treatment, but it could well be that it is working on any potential bacterial issues and the symptoms are taking time to visibly resolve despite treatment.

Please hang tight for more advice from a better source than me. I'm cheering for Tank!

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Thanks Arctic mama.

I am pretty much set on the fact it is a damaged swim bladder.

Darn, was hoping it was reversible.  I'll finish the treatments and keep my fingers crossed.

Edited by Eddie
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One suggestion from the moderating team is to try a lower water level. If indeed it is a damaged swim bladder, it may be best to have the fish in shallow water.

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Hi Lisa.

He is in a 10 gallon qt tank that is only 3/4 full.  I was trying the lower water level...couldn't be more than 8" deep.

I did notice that when I have been doing the water changes and I place him in a temp bucket with only 3" of water, it seems to help.

The problem is, 3" in a 10 gallon tank is not a lot of water.

 

Should i lower it more than the 8" it's at now?

Edited by Eddie
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How about trying 1/2 full to see how he handles it? This would mean twice the water changes during the remaining QT period. Another option is to get a plastic tote that has a low profile and can handle a 10 gallon volume of water.

 

We have a member on Koko's (I can't remember their name right now) who has/had to keep their fish in shallow water due to swim bladder issues. Instead of an aquarium they created an indoor pond for the fish. This allowed the water level to be low and the pond allowed for the necessary water volume.

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How about trying 1/2 full to see how he handles it? This would mean twice the water changes during the remaining QT period. Another option is to get a plastic tote that has a low profile and can handle a 10 gallon volume of water.

 

We have a member on Koko's (I can't remember their name right now) who has/had to keep their fish in shallow water due to swim bladder issues. Instead of an aquarium they created an indoor pond for the fish. This allowed the water level to be low and the pond allowed for the necessary water volume.

That's dedication!

Keep us posted on how things go, Eddie. Many of us do euthanize for congenital swim bladder issues or damaged swim bladders when it becomes difficult for the animals to eat and they begin in getting secondary infections from air exposure, but it's very wise to exhaust every possibility first. :grouphug

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Thanks you two!

I will definitely see if I can get a flatter tub.  So just an air stone and no bubble filter I guess.

I'll give it a shot.

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A shallow plastic tote like this one allows you to have only a few inches of water and still have a reasonable volume.  The large surface area encourages  exercise which also may help with swimmer bladder problems.  If you can find a depth at which the fish can remain upright, increase that depth very slowly, like a half inch a week.  Don't worry about the volume.  I kept a mature fish in four inches of water in a similar tub for 4 months with just one of those little Walmart filters.  I changed half of the water (~ 2 gallons) daily.

 

Feed lightly, favoring vegetables and algae.  I think duckweed is the ideal food.  It's very nutritious and goes through the gut very fast.

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