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Goldfish Slightly Off


Josie

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Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrate level(Tank) 5

* Ammonia Level(Tap) 1

* Nitrite Level(Tap) 0

* Nitrate level(Tap) 0

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) pH 8.2 KH 150

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) pH 8.2 KH 60

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Drops

* Water temperature? 72 F

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 60 gallons, about 2 months

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aquaclear 70 (2 of them)

* How often do you change the water and how much? Weekly, about 80 %

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 6 days ago, about 80%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 of them, each is about 3"

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, baking soda

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari purple and lionhead, repashy, peas, bloodworms

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? No

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. I did a salt QT for 4 weeks when I got the fish

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Sometimes staying at top and biting water surface, occasional darting/erratic swimming, just started yesterday

So the fish are acting pretty normal, but yesterday I noticed that they kept swimming to the top and biting at the surface. I also noticed some darting behavior. It is not happening frequently enough for me to get it on video, but I don't want to take any chance and wait for it to get worse. Should I treat with prazi, or could it be something worse?

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Huh. Usually darting and gasping or biting at the surface is water quality, but your params look good. Hopefully the experts will be able to help you out. High five for catching it quickly - that makes whatever the problem is easier to treat or rectify.

I am NO expert, just a multi decade fish keeper. But whenever my fish are acting off the very first thing I do is a massive water change. It usually keeps the situstion the same or improves it until I can get more targeted advice.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I just got home and double checked my parameters to be sure, and they were:

 

Ammonia=0-0.25

Nitrite=0

Nitrate =5

 

I did observe them for a while and while they are acting mostly normal, the two males are going up to the surface every 4 or 5 minutes.  I also see them yawning or making an O mouth every so often, which is why I was thinking flukes...but I am no expert.  Also I have never used prazi on them so maybe it would be a good idea either way.  I am going to go ahead and do a water change now since I am due for one anyways.

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A Prazi treatment would be a good idea. Can you share the details of the salt QT?

I followed the instructions in the article that Tithra wrote-I believe it was 0.1% salt and temperature around 78-80 F.  I did this for about 4 weeks.  I did not use prazi or raise the salt up to 0.3% during this time, since I felt like my fish source was a reputable one, and I had observed these fish at the store for several weeks before I bought them.

 

I will also note that I added two mystery snails about 10 days ago.  I had lots of nerites in the tank but I removed them all (in order to keep bioload down) at the suggestion of some of the members on this site.  So now the tank just has the three goldies and the two new mystery snails. I did not QT the snails.  The snails came from a tank at the store that was free standing and had it's own water supply.  All it had in it were a lot of snails and two long stick looking fish (I don't know what kind).

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So just a question about the Prazi-should I follow the schedule outlined by dnalex?  Raise salt to 0.1%?  Do I need to add a heater or is room temp okay for this?

 

From what I have read in other people's threads since I joined Koko's my fish are displaying symptoms that may be caused by flukes...does anyone agree with this statement?  I don't want to self diagnose since I am still a newbie :)

Edited by Josie
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Can you get some prazi? Either Prazipro or powdered prazi like Aquaprazi.

 

I need to find out about the snails and how they handle prazi and salt. Stay tuned for that.

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Darting is a symptom of flukes. Frequent yawning is also symptom. Since you've not done a prazi treatment yet, I suggest doing this. I just need to find out about the snails and prazi and salt.

 

Regarding going to the top and biting the surface, that could be at least a couple of things that I know of: the fish are eating a film of protein at the surface of the water or there is not enough aeration. The first is okay and I wouldn't worry about it. The second could be remedied by an airstone or using a filter in which the return flow disturbs the surface of the water (like with an HOB filter). Your two AQ70's should provide enough aeration. What are the dimensions of your 60 gallon tank?

 

There may be other reasons for fish to be biting the surface of the water. Others may chime in here with their ideas.

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Darting is a symptom of flukes. Frequent yawning is also symptom. Since you've not done a prazi treatment yet, I suggest doing this. I just need to find out about the snails and prazi and salt.

 

Regarding going to the top and biting the surface, that could be at least a couple of things that I know of: the fish are eating a film of protein at the surface of the water or there is not enough aeration. The first is okay and I wouldn't worry about it. The second could be remedied by an airstone or using a filter in which the return flow disturbs the surface of the water (like with an HOB filter). Your two AQ70's should provide enough aeration. What are the dimensions of your 60 gallon tank?

 

There may be other reasons for fish to be biting the surface of the water. Others may chime in here with their ideas.

The tank is about 48Wx13Dx23H.  I took out the bubble stone a few weeks ago since I do not have lids and the tank is heavily planted.  It did not seem to bother the fish until now.  Also there is space between the filters and water level to help with aeration.  I could try putting an air stone back in to see if that helps.  Let me know about the snails-I am mid water change now and I could easily take them out for the duration of the treatment if need be :)  I am lucky enough to have prazi-pro on hand.  If you think I should stock up on any other meds just in case I would be glad to do so.

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Darting is a symptom of flukes. Frequent yawning is also symptom. Since you've not done a prazi treatment yet, I suggest doing this. I just need to find out about the snails and prazi and salt.

 

Regarding going to the top and biting the surface, that could be at least a couple of things that I know of: the fish are eating a film of protein at the surface of the water or there is not enough aeration. The first is okay and I wouldn't worry about it. The second could be remedied by an airstone or using a filter in which the return flow disturbs the surface of the water (like with an HOB filter). Your two AQ70's should provide enough aeration. What are the dimensions of your 60 gallon tank?

 

There may be other reasons for fish to be biting the surface of the water. Others may chime in here with their ideas.

The tank is about 48Wx13Dx23H.  I took out the bubble stone a few weeks ago since I do not have lids and the tank is heavily planted.  It did not seem to bother the fish until now.  Also there is space between the filters and water level to help with aeration.  I could try putting an air stone back in to see if that helps.  Let me know about the snails-I am mid water change now and I could easily take them out for the duration of the treatment if need be :)  I am lucky enough to have prazi-pro on hand.  If you think I should stock up on any other meds just in case I would be glad to do so.

 

 

I've read up a bit on snails and salt: I would take the snails out for the duration of the treatment.

 

I would suggest doing 0.3% salt for a couple of weeks to kill off parasites that the snails may have introduced through any water that came in/on their shell. My only concern with doing this amount of salt is your plants. What kind of plants do you have?

 

As for stocking up on meds, metroplex and kanaplex by Seachem is good to have on hand.

 

I need to go to bed for now, so you should wait to do the salt until we know how your plants can handle it (unless you know your plants handled the 0.1% salt before).

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Darting is a symptom of flukes. Frequent yawning is also symptom. Since you've not done a prazi treatment yet, I suggest doing this. I just need to find out about the snails and prazi and salt.

 

Regarding going to the top and biting the surface, that could be at least a couple of things that I know of: the fish are eating a film of protein at the surface of the water or there is not enough aeration. The first is okay and I wouldn't worry about it. The second could be remedied by an airstone or using a filter in which the return flow disturbs the surface of the water (like with an HOB filter). Your two AQ70's should provide enough aeration. What are the dimensions of your 60 gallon tank?

 

There may be other reasons for fish to be biting the surface of the water. Others may chime in here with their ideas.

The tank is about 48Wx13Dx23H.  I took out the bubble stone a few weeks ago since I do not have lids and the tank is heavily planted.  It did not seem to bother the fish until now.  Also there is space between the filters and water level to help with aeration.  I could try putting an air stone back in to see if that helps.  Let me know about the snails-I am mid water change now and I could easily take them out for the duration of the treatment if need be :)  I am lucky enough to have prazi-pro on hand.  If you think I should stock up on any other meds just in case I would be glad to do so.

 

 

I've read up a bit on snails and salt: I would take the snails out for the duration of the treatment.

 

I would suggest doing 0.3% salt for a couple of weeks to kill off parasites that the snails may have introduced through any water that came in/on their shell. My only concern with doing this amount of salt is your plants. What kind of plants do you have?

 

As for stocking up on meds, metroplex and kanaplex by Seachem is good to have on hand.

 

I need to go to bed for now, so you should wait to do the salt until we know how your plants can handle it (unless you know your plants handled the 0.1% salt before).

 

Thank you!  I did not have the plants before when I did the salt.  I have anubias, java fern, swords, italian vals, water sprite and a few more random ones, but I am mostly worried about the fish.  If some of the plants take a hit in order for the fish to get better I won't mind.  For now I will remove the two snails, do 0.1% salt and prazi, and wait to hear back.  Thank you so much for your advice!

Edited by Josie
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Okay, one more thing and I'm definitely going to bed. Make sure there is no carbon in the filters during treatment. (Actually you don't need carbon in the filters on a daily basis.)

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Okay, one more thing and I'm definitely going to bed. Make sure there is no carbon in the filters during treatment. (Actually you don't need carbon in the filters on a daily basis.)

I am carbon free, and I will try to order all the meds you suggested in the morning.  Thanks again!

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I would take out as much of the plants as possible and the raise the salinity to 0.3% over 24 hours. You'll want to have that salinity level for two weeks. This is what the moderating team recommends to help eliminate parasites.

 

I'm changing my mind on the heater. I've read around on the forum. It would be good to raise the temp to 76F to help speed up the parasite birthing process so that they get zapped by the salt and prazi. (I could be wrong on this, so if another moderator or someone else has a different opinion on this, please chime in.)

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Thanks for updating me. When I get home from work tonight I will raise the salinity another 0.1% and add a heater. Unfortunately I will probably have to take my chances on the plants, there are so many of them and I have no idea what I would do with them all. The fish are more important than the plants so I will be okay if some of them don't make it.

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I think most of the plants would be ok at 0.1% salt but I think some of the more fragile ones will not do well with 0.3% salt.

 

I agree--snails out.

 

If it was me, I would stick with 0.1% salt and prazi for 2-3 rounds and see if that reduces or eliminates the biting at the surface.   If not, then I'd raise the salt to 0.3% if the biting continues.  Just looking out for your plants.  And the symptoms sound  like flukes . . .

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I think most of the plants would be ok at 0.1% salt but I think some of the more fragile ones will not do well with 0.3% salt.

 

I agree--snails out.

 

If it was me, I would stick with 0.1% salt and prazi for 2-3 rounds and see if that reduces or eliminates the biting at the surface.   If not, then I'd raise the salt to 0.3% if the biting continues.  Just looking out for your plants.  And the symptoms sound  like flukes . . .

Thanks for chiming in :) I will keep it at 0.1 for now, hopefully that will save my plants, plus I won't have to double dose Prazi. I ordered some metro, kana and extra prazi just in case, and the snails are separated. When I get home I will put in a heater and see how everything goes!

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Just a quick update: my goldies are all looking and acting completely normal :)  I am very happy to have caught the signs early and to have had great advice specific for my situation.  I will, of course, finish the 6 rounds of Prazi, but it is awesome to see an improvement in their behavior so quickly.  As a bonus, the plants are still doing great and I have even seen some growth in the three days since I added salt-what a relief!  Thank you!

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