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Freckles or something sinister?


Ree

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Sorry the video is only short.  And you can hear my little puddy Fud in the background making all sorts of noises.  Sorry.  He was running around like a crazy critter trying to distract me from the fish.  :teehee  and its taking its time uploading.... :whistle  :doh11:

 

Here is the link to photobucket...

http://vid1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag52/Reesbucket/pOdge%2005_10_15%20video/05.10.15%20pOdge_zpsutmyagpv.mp4

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As far as streaking goes that isn't bad. My theory on the spots is that if it was indeed blood vessels then the previous spots going away as the site of the bleeding heals make sense, as well as new ones popping up where the rest of his skin is stretching. Podge still looks a little alarmingly round to my eye in your video, so continued stress of pressure against his skin and scales wouldn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Pearlies are SO tough to diagnose with swelling or dropsy because of their scales and shape. It's great that he is swimming around and eating, though!

There is my highly unscientific theory ;). Hopefully the mods gave better insight for you this morning!

Edited by Arctic Mama
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One more amateur thought - do you have access to a microscope or even just a magnifying glass?

Have you tried scraping st a spot gently with your fingernail to see if it moved, shifts, or can be removed?

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One more amateur thought - do you have access to a microscope or even just a magnifying glass?

Have you tried scraping st a spot gently with your fingernail to see if it moved, shifts, or can be removed?

 

Um no I don't have access to a microscope.  I wish I did.  I haven't tried to remove them as I thought that would damage his slime coat?  They are definitely not just on the surface though.  They appear to me to be through the depth of his skin, if that makes sense?  They also are around and under the scales, not just around the edges of the scales, though being a pearl scale the centre of his scales can be difficult to see through.  I don't know if that makes a difference?  I could try if a mod thinks its a good idea?  I just am really :hide: scared of hurting him.

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As far as streaking goes that isn't bad. My theory on the spots is that if it was indeed blood vessels then the previous spots going away as the site of the bleeding heals make sense, as well as new ones popping up where the rest of his skin is stretching. Podge still looks a little alarmingly round to my eye in your video, so continued stress of pressure against his skin and scales wouldn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Pearlies are SO tough to diagnose with swelling or dropsy because of their scales and shape. It's great that he is swimming around and eating, though!

There is my highly unscientific theory ;). Hopefully the mods gave better insight for you this morning!

 

Thanks so much Arctic Mama!  I would love to hear what anyone thinks is going on.  I want to know what I am dealing with so I can stop it, or catch it early if it happens again. 

 

I agree though, he is a very very very round fish.  I am not sure he is as swollen as he was when I first bought him though thinking about it.  When I first bought him home his gill plates bumped into the sides of his scales.  There is more clearance there now, so maybe he was dropsied? or has he lost weight from not eating?  I know in the fish shop there were other fish in the same tank bottom sitting... I should have known to walk away, but he was just too cute to leave there.  I think he might be going to be my 'problem child'.

 

Good news though, I just checked on him, and he is now not so skittish, and interacting with my hand when I put it in the QT tank!  He hasn't done that for over a week! 

 

But I would really really love to know what I am dealing with if anyone has any ideas so I can do some research.  I want to be aware of any further complications that might develop in the future as a result of this bout of illness.

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As far as streaking goes that isn't bad. My theory on the spots is that if it was indeed blood vessels then the previous spots going away as the site of the bleeding heals make sense, as well as new ones popping up where the rest of his skin is stretching. Podge still looks a little alarmingly round to my eye in your video, so continued stress of pressure against his skin and scales wouldn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Pearlies are SO tough to diagnose with swelling or dropsy because of their scales and shape. It's great that he is swimming around and eating, though!

There is my highly unscientific theory ;). Hopefully the mods gave better insight for you this morning!

 

Thanks so much Arctic Mama!  I would love to hear what anyone thinks is going on.  I want to know what I am dealing with so I can stop it, or catch it early if it happens again. 

 

I agree though, he is a very very very round fish.  I am not sure he is as swollen as he was when I first bought him though thinking about it.  When I first bought him home his gill plates bumped into the sides of his scales.  There is more clearance there now, so maybe he was dropsied? or has he lost weight from not eating?  I know in the fish shop there were other fish in the same tank bottom sitting... I should have known to walk away, but he was just too cute to leave there.  I think he might be going to be my 'problem child'.

 

Good news though, I just checked on him, and he is now not so skittish, and interacting with my hand when I put it in the QT tank!  He hasn't done that for over a week! 

 

But I would really really love to know what I am dealing with if anyone has any ideas so I can do some research.  I want to be aware of any further complications that might develop in the future as a result of this bout of illness.

 

 

This photo was taken the day after I bought him home.  It was his first day in the bigger QT tank.  I just thought I would add it for comparison of his body shape.

SANY0761%202_zpsq3nhycrq.jpg

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Let's give the metro a couple more days to take effect.

 

What do you use to neutralize ammonia? Is it Prime by any chance? If it is, I'd like for you to add a dose to the tanks, please.

 

I am not particularly concerned about the dilated blood vessels in the fins. This can happen with medications.

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Let's give the metro a couple more days to take effect.

 

What do you use to neutralize ammonia? Is it Prime by any chance? If it is, I'd like for you to add a dose to the tanks, please.

 

I am not particularly concerned about the dilated blood vessels in the fins. This can happen with medications.

 

ok.  Thanks so much for your help dnalex. 

 

Yep, its prime!  Do I do a 100% water change today?  Or just add the extra prime?  (ill still feed him in a holding dish even if I don't change their water, just to keep the water as clean as possible.)

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So long as ammonia plus nitrites are less than 1.0, you can dose with prime to help detoxify the ammonia and nitrites. Otherwise do water change.

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So long as ammonia plus nitrites are less than 1.0, you can dose with prime to help detoxify the ammonia and nitrites. Otherwise do water change.

 

OK Lisa, Thanks for that.  I might just leave the WC for the moment. I've just checked and they are registering 0ppm ammonia, and 0ppm nitrites.  Ill dose with prime, and check their levels again in 12 hours or so.

 

Do I need to add more kanaplex and metro to the water if I am not doing a WC?

 

How long does kanaplex stay in the water at the appropriate concentration?

 

How long does metro stay in the water at the appropriate concentration?

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Until you do a WC, the meds do not need to be replenished.

 

Ok.  Thanks dnalex! 

 

Ill do one tomorrow though.  I don't want to leave them more than two days in the same water at the moment. 

 

Louie will have been on the kanaplex for 11 days straight when I am to do their water change tomorrow.  She is not showing any symptoms now, and has been eating fine for at least two days, it will be three tomorrow.  Should I take her off the kanaplex then (after tomorrows WC) or leave her on it a little longer? 

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I'd take her off of it.  You don't want to use the kanaplex for longer than 12 days. 

 

Thanks fantailfan1, I was worried about her being on them too long.  I wont replace her kanaplex when I do their WC tomorrow then.  Thanks so much!  :hi

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How are their activity levels?

 

Much better!  Louie is zooming around.  pOdge is constantly moving now too, but no where near as fast as Louie.  I think he is still a little lethargic.  He is pooping well today though.  So that's a good sign.

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Todays doses -

 

prior to WC parameters 0.05ppm ammonia, nitrites 0ppm, nitrates 0ppm.  Just did 100% WC rinsed everything in clean water 3 times.  I gave pOdge new filter floss and all surfaces have been cleaned and rinsed. 

 

Sorry Ill try to add a better update later, I'm just in a bit of a rush at the moment.

 

pOdge - 40L -
2 prazi tablets
1 200 metro
2 measures kanaplex
2tsp Epsom salts

Louie - 13L -
1 prazi tablet
3tsp rock salt - 0.1%

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Todays doses -

 

I added prime yesterday, and didn't water change, and today tested the parameters and they are less than 0.05ppm ammonia, nitrites 0ppm, nitrates 0ppm.  My back is really killing me today, so I haven't been able to do their WC today, it will be done tomorrow morning with Hubbys help, so that is an extra 12-15 hours after their ordinary WC.  I have added more prime to the water and will make sure I do a 100% WC tomorrow.

 

I've added a 800Lphr internal filter to pOdges tank yesterday, and put a sponge on the out flow to stop him being buffeted around.  He is curious again now, so that is a good sign.  He is swimming around a lot more now, and I haven't noticed quite so much yawning or air gulping.  Ill check his spots tomorrow and take videos and photos for you.  He has been eating fine yesterday and today.

 

I think Louie is going to be fine now.  She is buzzing around and eating no problems. No signs of ick, clamping, yawning, gulping or anything else.  How much longer should I keep her in QT before putting her in the main tank?  It is pretty much cycled now I think, so she would help maintain the cycle.

 

pOdge - 40L - 
0 prazi tablets (end round 2)
1 200 metro
2 measures kanaplex
(2tsp Epsom salts still previous dose)

Louie - 13L - 
0 prazi tablet (end round 2)
(3tsp rock salt - 0.1% still previous dose)

Edited by Ree
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I think Louie should stay in QT for a few more days, but no more meds for now. We will revisit the prazi when both are back in the main tank.

How is Podge?

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I think Louie should stay in QT for a few more days, but no more meds for now. We will revisit the prazi when both are back in the main tank.

How is Podge?

 

 

Ok Thanks dnalex. 

 

Ill stop all meds for Louie... and salt down to 0?

 

pOdge is about the same at the moment, I have not seen a vast improvement in about two days now.  I'm doing their water change in a half hour or so, so ill have a good look at him and see how his spots and blush and other symptoms are going and report back to you. 

 

pOdge will have been on kanaplex 12 days yesterday.  Should I keep him on it a little longer?

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ok, Bad news.

 

I've just checked on pOdge and it looks like he is getting worse again.  His blush is about the same, but the spots are a lot more this afternoon.  He is more lethargic again, and he is still clamping his dorsal.  His gills are dark plum still.  He is not yawning as much, or surface gulping as much, but that might be due to adding another filter to his tank? He did eat his dinner, but not as much as he normally would have. a day or so ago, and was doing more spitting out than actual eating.  They had the NLS algae gel for dinner again tonight, and the chlorella flakes for breakfast this morning.

 

I am just trying to upload some photos.  Our internet is slow tonight, so ill add them in a min or two.

 

Todays doses -

 

prior to WC parameters still less than 0.05ppm ammonia, nitrites 0ppm, nitrates 0ppm, ph8.3, water temp 18degrees Celsius.  Again everything washed and rinsed well.

 

pOdge - 40L - 
0 prazi tablets
1 200 metro
2 measures kanaplex
2tsp Epsom salts

Louie - 13L - 
0 prazi tablet
0tsp rock salt - 0%

 

So am I dealing with septicaemia? If it is not responding to the antibiotics, at what point would it be better for him to put him down?  I would really hate to do that, but I am scared he wont make it, and I would hate to prolong his agony further if that is what I am doing.  Just a thought.  If there is a chance he will recover I will keep treating him though.  I do love him and want what is best for him, not what is best for me. 

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here are the photos to go with the previous post...

 

back blush same, spots worse  (sorry this shot is overexposed, so you cant see all the spots that are there, Ill try to get a better shot tomorrow morning)P1050779%202_zpsqh1lsmmm.jpg

 

tummy spots worse, small amount of pineconing still on the left side of his tail (not his left side, but the left hand side looking at the photo)

P1050787%202_zps9ozyoz3g.jpg

 

P1050781%202_zpsi2anfrbe.jpg

 

chest spots worse

P1050786%202_zpsu46yeocn.jpg

 

Left side, spots worse (sorry this shot is overexposed, so you cant see all the spots that are there, Ill try to get a better shot tomorrow morning)

P1050784%202_zpspj6iklrm.jpg

 

The photo of is right side didn't come out, so ill redo it again in the morning too.

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How many days of Metro and Kana has Podge completed?

 

Metro 9 days today

Kana 3 days, one days rest, then 9 days (the one days rest was a mix up... sorry)

 

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