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Here we go again!.. Ryukin in QT


210 Oranda

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Hello everyone!

 

Im trying to find out if this ryukin looks-swims abnormal to any of you..

 

I lost today one of the three guys I had in QT and I wouldn't want to lose any of my remaining two (this calico ryukin & a small ranchu) because of a late treatment.

I just did a 100% WC earlier when I saw the dead fish and I noticed his (in my opinion) swollen belly.. He has been swimming "weird" since I got him on April 16 but I can't figure out why..

 

They're in the middle of the second round of prazi & .3% salt and both have been experiencing "spitting out, flashing/darting & heavy yawning-breathing ".. however, lately they're just motionless stock to the bottom..

 

Please let me know if any additional treatment is required for the (perhaps) swollen belly of the calico

 

Thanks!!

 

20150420_155359_zpsmqkfmpks.jpg

 

20150427_141351_zpssidpenvr.jpg

 

20150427_141359_zpspkgobycp.jpg

 

 

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Can you answer these questions for us:

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

What kind of Prazi are you using?

 

Are you doing the 5 or 7-day rounds?

 

How many days has the salt been at 0.3%.

 

Do you have any antibiotics in case they are needed?

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Can you answer these questions for us:

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)  .25 to .50
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 5
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 5
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.4 - KH 300 - GH between 25&75
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
      • * Water temperature? 76-78
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 10G QT
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? penguin 150 w/ floss only
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? every other day 50-100%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday 100%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? ryukin 2" w/o tail  -  ranchu 1"
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? varies from hikari red bag, omega1, repashy soilent, hikari bloodworms (twice a day)
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? prazi pro (liquid), Mortons canning salt
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. see below
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? calico came with an unusual body shape at the "belly area".. more like square/rounded corners body instead of a "smooth tear drop" like other ryukins I have.. it also came with a piece of the tail missing, split tail & one of the pelvic ones almost gone
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? spitting out food, stuck to the filter intake (motionless), heavy yawing, heavy breathing, darting

What kind of Prazi are you using? prazi pro (liquid)

 

Are you doing the 5 or 7-day rounds? 4 with, 3 without

 

How many days has the salt been at 0.3%. nine days of salt at .3% (114grams) but I reduced it yesterday at .2% (76grams)

 

Do you have any antibiotics in case they are needed? metro, kana, bi furan, triple sufla

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What does his/her poop look like?  What does the belly feel like?  Squishy?  Hard?  somewhere in between?

 

 

Had you been double dosing the Prazipro while the salt concentration was at 0.3%?

 

Why did you reduce to salt to 0.2%?

 

I've only seen him/her pooping once.. stringy white with some food color

The belly feels somewhat soft.. or at least softer than one of the other fish from main tank

(I've never touch their bellies before so I don't know what their belly should feel like)

 

Jared..

I have not been double dosing the prazi..

I reduced the salt to .2% out of ignorance.. I thought 114 grams in a 10G were bothering them a little too much, but I can add the other 38g if you say so

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What does his/her poop look like?  What does the belly feel like?  Squishy?  Hard?  somewhere in between?

 

 

Had you been double dosing the Prazipro while the salt concentration was at 0.3%?

 

Why did you reduce to salt to 0.2%?

 

I've only seen him/her pooping once.. stringy white with some food color

The belly feels somewhat soft.. or at least softer than one of the other fish from main tank

(I've never touch their bellies before so I don't know what their belly should feel like)

 

Jared..

I have not been double dosing the prazi..

I reduced the salt to .2% out of ignorance.. I thought 114 grams in a 10G were bothering them a little too much, but I can add the other 38g if you say so

 

Okay, so the yawning and spitting makes me think Flukes.  The problem is that Prazipro is less effective with salt at 0.3% unless it is double dosed.  What I suggest is that you drop the salt to 0.1% and single dose the Prazi.  If things don't improve, we may need the Metro and Kana for secondary bacterial infections.

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What does his/her poop look like?  What does the belly feel like?  Squishy?  Hard?  somewhere in between?

 

 

Had you been double dosing the Prazipro while the salt concentration was at 0.3%?

 

Why did you reduce to salt to 0.2%?

 

I've only seen him/her pooping once.. stringy white with some food color

The belly feels somewhat soft.. or at least softer than one of the other fish from main tank

(I've never touch their bellies before so I don't know what their belly should feel like)

 

Jared..

I have not been double dosing the prazi..

I reduced the salt to .2% out of ignorance.. I thought 114 grams in a 10G were bothering them a little too much, but I can add the other 38g if you say so

 

Okay, so the yawning and spitting makes me think Flukes.  The problem is that Prazipro is less effective with salt at 0.3% unless it is double dosed.  What I suggest is that you drop the salt to 0.1% and single dose the Prazi.  If things don't improve, we may need the Metro and Kana for secondary bacterial infections.

 

 

 

The other, more aggressive approach would be to continue with Prazi, eliminate the salt entirely and add the Metro and Kana.

 

Man!.. I completely forgot about the 0.1% / single prazi or 0.3% double prazi.. (silly me)

Being in the middle of the second round at a wrong dosage, should I start from scratch or continue at 0.1% + single prazi ???

 

Im looking at both right now and they're moving.. yawning & breathing rapidly, but moving..!

 

The 1" ranchu does not have the belly issue than the ryukin does and I don't think I can manage to have both in QT in different containers so if we can save the antibiotics unless you indicate necessary (life threatening) I will prefer that

 

By the way.. how does the belly should feel like?..

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I would start from scratch with Prazi and salt at 0.1% (1 Teaspoon per gallon).

 

My concern is that a bacterial gill infection is likely to occur if it hasn't already...thus the yawning and rapid breathing.  If the Prazi doesn't clear this in a few days, I would start the antibiotics with both fish in the same tank.

 

The belly should be firm but flexible, not rock hard or soft and squishy.

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They were stuck to the intake this morning when I woke up.. the little ranchu had his mouth completely open (no yawning, open/closing motion)

and that's exactly how I found the other fish dead

 

Im doing a 100%WC right now.. should I start with kana/metro/prazi or should I wait a day or two and hope for improvements  ???

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Go with the kana and metro . . . and prazi.

 

 

I would also put some prefilters on those intakes.

 

I started yesterday with the antibiotics (+ prazi) & decided to turn off the filter to avoid for the fish to do extra effort when swimming..

 

Im a little sad now because the little ranchu is just floating at surface, being push arround by the airstone's bubbles..

He/she doesn't move much.. I really think im gonna lose him/her soon.. :(

 

if there's any additional treatment you think it might help to get him/her back to life please let me know so I can try it

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I would also put some prefilters on those intakes.

 

 

Nothing else I can think of . . .  :idont

 

 

Is there anything I can do to help this fellow???  :(

He/she hasn't eat in 4-5 days.. this morning she/he looked "semi ok" but now is laying on the side with one side of the belly swollen

 

They had yesterday the 3rd dose of Metro/Kana

 

20150504_150227_zpsnf47rkwt.jpg

 

20150504_151100_zpswcw3gvkr.jpg

 

20150504_151120_zpsysdysife.jpg

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I would also put some prefilters on those intakes.

Yes yes! Even my healthy ranchu sometimes drifts and gets stuck to the filter and has to struggle away, he just isn't as good a swimmer as longer bodied fish with all pertinent fins. The prefilters, especially the quality sponges, not only give you more surface area for beneficial bacteria but they prevent damage to your fish, sick or not, from scraping against the plastic of the intake :)

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I'm so sorry he is looking poorly. Fresh warm water at the specified salinity, antibiotics as advised, and prazi are your best bet. Even then he may be too far gone, but I've seen some pretty amazing recoveries on this board.

My thoughts are with you and your fish :grouphug:

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The calico is gone.. :rip:

 She was laying on the side moving slowly but stopped breathing a few minutes after I wrote my last message (30min ago)

 

Im breaking my head trying to understand this.. I mean, what am I doing wrong!?

I know for a fact that this guys have been at the LFS for months w/o problems but now that I bring them home they die!

 

I understand that sometimes they just have bad genes or hidden diseases but how do you explain that they were "ok" several months in China (from birth), then "ok" several weeks in California (golden phoenix fisheries) , then "ok" again several weeks here in Texas at LFS.. then they die in my hands

 

Now I only have the small ranchu who's been eating some but stays most of the time at surface.. and when I throw some pellets it seems that he has difficulties to get to the bottom... :no:

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I'm so sorry.  :k055:

 

Have you disinfected your tanks before bringing home a new fish?  All of the fish have been from the same source?  This may seem like a rude question but do you have any fish that have made it through QT and are still alive?  (I'm not blaming you at all--just trying to figure out if its your fish supplier, water, etc).

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I'm so sorry.  :k055:

 

Have you disinfected your tanks before bringing home a new fish?  All of the fish have been from the same source?  This may seem like a rude question but do you have any fish that have made it through QT and are still alive?  (I'm not blaming you at all--just trying to figure out if its your fish supplier, water, etc).

These below..  (also) the surviving ranchu, the calico :rip:  & the pompom :rip:  are from the same LFS..

The fish below are (in my understanding) happy in their 125G

 

I got the ryukin calico, chocolate pompom & the (surviving) ranchu at the same time.. being treated in same 10gal QT tank..

 

the little pompom died after the second round of prazi, the calico died (today) after 3 doses of antibiotics & several ones of prazi..

the (surviving) ranchu which I thought I lost on the first round of antibiotics (6 days ago) somehow came back to life

He isn't doing great because spends a lot of time at surface, "like not being able to swim to the bottom" but at least he's alive & eating..

 

20150501_102913%20-%20Copy%202_zpsmyoyvd

 

by the way.. I clean the QT tank with vinegar every time I bring new fish and every time I do a 100%WC

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