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Excessive yawning. Still. After multiple prazi treatments.


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New video from today. Don't mind the cloudiness, we had Jump Start fall and dissolve before it could be eaten, plus some poo foraging and rejecting of said poo, so despite a water change last night things look a wee bit murky!

I'm debating stopping the Quick Cure here at the third dose and resting the fish since the parasite riddled behavior is pretty much gone. But I'm so paranoid - how do I know it's really dealt with? I don't want to move them to their new home and have this pop up again to infect new tankmates. Could anything survive the formalin and malachite green? I've been treating this stupid, mystery parasite so long I'm complete without confidence it will ever go away :(

It seems like I can beat it back, but never eradicate it. Despite the normal behavior we still have red, irritated pectoral fins and tail streaks - but what more can I do that I haven't already done in the past two weeks?

 

New video from today. Don't mind the cloudiness, we had Jump Start fall and dissolve before it could be eaten, plus some poo foraging and rejecting of said poo, so despite a water change last night things look a wee bit murky!

I'm debating stopping the Quick Cure here at the third dose and resting the fish since the parasite riddled behavior is pretty much gone. But I'm so paranoid - how do I know it's really dealt with? I don't want to move them to their new home and have this pop up again to infect new tankmates. Could anything survive the formalin and malachite green? I've been treating this stupid, mystery parasite so long I'm complete without confidence it will ever go away :(

It seems like I can beat it back, but never eradicate it. Despite the normal behavior we still have red, irritated pectoral fins and tail streaks - but what more can I do that I haven't already done in the past two weeks?

How many days has the Quick Cure been in the water.  You need to leave it in long enough to kill the parasites that will emerge from the encysted stages.

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That was my concern. This is the second full day, third treatment (I treated yesterday morning and this morning, but decided we needed fresh water again and did a water change and retreated the tank just ten minutes ago). Because the directions are so sparse and this isn't ich, I have no idea what the life cycle is. But I'm keenly aware it's a major neurotoxin even though my fish appear to be doing very well.

I was debating removing it tomorrow, giving it a two day rest for anything remaining to hatch, and nuking them again with it. I've been water changing every day or two and really sucking up the detritus on the bottom in hopes of minimising possible reinfection. But for all my years of fish keeping (two decades next year!) I've never encountered something as intractable as whatever this is.

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Since you have had to resort to the Formalin / Malachite Green, I would do a minimum of 3 days without interruption and if they seem to be tolerating it well, go to 6 days with daily 100% water changes before redosing.  That would be my recommendation at typical tropical temperatures (75-78 F).  Keep up the extra aeration.

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The temp is down at 70 to help with oxygen, but I ca always pop the heater in and bump it up. Your recommendations were in line with my original plan before I started freaking out about the stupid formalin, so I'll steel myself and continue on unti Saturday.

I'm really just glad they're looking and acting fairly normal. And not rotting away in horrendous and speedy fashion. I think that bacteria shaved a few years off *my* life in anxiety over trying to treat it without both fish dying, all stubborn parasites aside.

Thanks so much for your continued help, Jared. I hope I can become a knowledgable enough goldfish keeper one of these years to pay it forward and help someone else in the same fashion everyone here has helped me.

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The temp is down at 70 to help with oxygen, but I ca always pop the heater in and bump it up. Your recommendations were in line with my original plan before I started freaking out about the stupid formalin, so I'll steel myself and continue on unti Saturday.

I'm really just glad they're looking and acting fairly normal. And not rotting away in horrendous and speedy fashion. I think that bacteria shaved a few years off *my* life in anxiety over trying to treat it without both fish dying, all stubborn parasites aside.

Thanks so much for your continued help, Jared. I hope I can become a knowledgable enough goldfish keeper one of these years to pay it forward and help someone else in the same fashion everyone here has helped me.

 

You already helped me!  :tou

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The temp is down at 70 to help with oxygen, but I ca always pop the heater in and bump it up. Your recommendations were in line with my original plan before I started freaking out about the stupid formalin, so I'll steel myself and continue on unti Saturday.

I'm really just glad they're looking and acting fairly normal. And not rotting away in horrendous and speedy fashion. I think that bacteria shaved a few years off *my* life in anxiety over trying to treat it without both fish dying, all stubborn parasites aside.

Thanks so much for your continued help, Jared. I hope I can become a knowledgable enough goldfish keeper one of these years to pay it forward and help someone else in the same fashion everyone here has helped me.

I would get the temp up to 75 F (no higher) to get this thing's life cycle moving while the Formalin is in the water.   Just add an airstone if you haven't already and observe for signs of stress.  

 

You are welcome :)

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Oh NO!

Today is the last day of the parasite treatment. No salt, upped the heat again. Quick cure, blah blah blah.

Yesterday I noticed some darting and unhappy behavior, which I assumed was the power head bugging hima again.

This morning, I noticed some white spots on Otto's tail, and continued little blisters on Momoko's. I took a YouTube video for you.

And right after I stopped filming what do I see?! His mouth is a little red again and some white tufts are popping back up on his head. I think I see one on Momoko's, too!

COLUMNARIS AGAIN?! Or something else? Could it have really survived in their systems with that amount of antibiotics and sterilized equipment?

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I know warming up the water for the parasite treatment could have caused an outbreak if it was still dormant in their systems, but I really thought he had nuked it. Where do I go next in meds? More Furan? More Kanaplex? Metro? Meth Blue? PP? More salt? Acriflavin? PIMAFIX?! Gaaaaah!

Do I euthanize the poor animal and start over?

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Today was supposed to be the last day. I popped a heater back in three days ago to speed up the parasite life cycle and the symptoms of that seem totally gone. But this is exactly how the Columnaris popped up before. Started with white ulcers/spots/blisters and progressed to body tufts.

Last night when I put in the Quick Cure (6 days total if I do a treatment today, too) I noted that parts of Otto looked stained a little blue, his slime coat was patchy and he'd been stressed that day, but I didn't connect the dots fast enough :(

I'm trying not to catastrophize. It's just a bummer.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Sorry, I edited it back into the previous one. Today would be the sixth full treatment day. Last night was treatment day five.

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I have some Metromeds that are nearly expired. They may have a month left on them, max. I also have Repashy so I could, technically, make an antibiotic food with the kanaplex, metro, general cure, whatever. I can also go buy some Triple Sulfa if needed, but I don't recall that being highly effective against Columnaris in my reading.

Carl had a good section on the inhibitory effects of various antibiotics against the Columnaris strains, I should go find the page and reread it, again.

ETA - I als have erythromycin on hand, but I believe that was one of the others with a fairly low inhibitory effect on the bacteria.

Are we sure the formalin won't sting any of the missing slime cost spots or the tufts?

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I've discovered the magical Columnaris inducing formula, if anyone wants to replicate. Warm, clean, well oxygenated water, no salt, a little stress, and prone fish? VOILA! :(

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Thanks Jen, me too! I thought we had this totally beat. And some of the lingering parasite symptoms, like red pectoral fins, are still persisting. How stubborn can this possibly be?!

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I have some Metromeds that are nearly expired. They may have a month left on them, max. I also have Repashy so I could, technically, make an antibiotic food with the kanaplex, metro, general cure, whatever. I can also go buy some Triple Sulfa if needed, but I don't recall that being highly effective against Columnaris in my reading.

Carl had a good section on the inhibitory effects of various antibiotics against the Columnaris strains, I should go find the page and reread it, again.

ETA - I als have erythromycin on hand, but I believe that was one of the others with a fairly low inhibitory effect on the bacteria.

Are we sure the formalin won't sting any of the missing slime cost spots or the tufts?

 

I have some Metromeds that are nearly expired. They may have a month left on them, max. I also have Repashy so I could, technically, make an antibiotic food with the kanaplex, metro, general cure, whatever. I can also go buy some Triple Sulfa if needed, but I don't recall that being highly effective against Columnaris in my reading.

Carl had a good section on the inhibitory effects of various antibiotics against the Columnaris strains, I should go find the page and reread it, again.

ETA - I als have erythromycin on hand, but I believe that was one of the others with a fairly low inhibitory effect on the bacteria.

Are we sure the formalin won't sting any of the missing slime cost spots or the tufts?

We need to lick both the parasite infestation and the bacterial infection in order to break this recurring cycle.  I'm not convinced we've cleared the parasite, yet.  Kanaplex and Furan-2 are the best combo for Columnaris.  However, you could also try the Metro Meds as the Metronidazole /Oxytetracycline/Romet B combo might work and could be started while the Quick Cure is still in the water.

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So. Do the medicated food today, then cease it tomorrow when I begin dosing the Furan/Kanaplx combo again? Or do all three at once? We definitely need to kick this, I'm in complete agreement. I just can't believe the volume of meds I'm dumping on these poor fish, but it isnt like I didn't try softer measures, first.

In summary:

1. Quick cure today, with metro.

2. kana/Furan cooler water temps and salt tomorrow.

Continue with metro?

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So. Do the medicated food today, then cease it tomorrow when I begin dosing the Furan/Kanaplx combo again? Or do all three at once? We definitely need to kick this, I'm in complete agreement. I just can't believe the volume of meds I'm dumping on these poor fish, but it isnt like I didn't try softer measures, first.

In summary:

1. Quick cure today, with metro.

2. kana/Furan cooler water temps and salt tomorrow.

Continue with metro?

No.  Do Quick Cure today with just Metro Meds, evaluate tomorrow and continue this if things seem no worse or better.

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Okay. Quick cure and metro, check back in tomorrow. Roger.

 

Okay. Quick cure and metro, check back in tomorrow. Roger.

Metro Meds, not just Metro right?  I want to see if the Oxytetracycline and/or Romet-B will help, not to mention oral Metro is better than water borne.

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Okay. Quick cure and metro, check back in tomorrow. Roger.

Okay. Quick cure and metro, check back in tomorrow. Roger.

Metro Meds, not just Metro right? I want to see if the Oxytetracycline and/or Romet-B will help, not to mention oral Metro is better than water borne.
I have both. Metronidazole from Seachem and Metromeds that are of uncertain age, but probably going on a year (opened in February). I'm using the remaining Metromeds and the Quick Cure, no salt, 78 degree water, buffering and keeping trace minerals up with wonder shells. Daily water changes, no filter (power head and airstones only).

I figured however old the Metromeds are they should still be somewhat effective, if not full strength. Please advise if I need to do a different medicated food that I whip up, myself.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Okay. Quick cure and metro, check back in tomorrow. Roger.

Okay. Quick cure and metro, check back in tomorrow. Roger.

Metro Meds, not just Metro right? I want to see if the Oxytetracycline and/or Romet-B will help, not to mention oral Metro is better than water borne.
I have both. Metronidazole from Seachem and Metromeds that are of uncertain age, but probably going on a year (opened in February). I'm using the remaining Metromeds and the Quick Cure, no salt, 78 degree water, buffering and keeping trace minerals up with wonder shells. Daily water changes, no filter (power head and airstones only).

I figured however old the Metromeds are they should still be somewhat effective, if not full strength. Please advise if I need to do a different medicated food that I whip up, myself.

 

Let's try the Metro Meds food.  It should be fine.  If it doesn't work, I would go back to the water borne Kana and Furan combo.  I'd like to give the Quick Cure a bit more time to be sure the primary parasite is eliminated.

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