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Splain this to me Lusy,


mickeyrom

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Why in the world are these incessant water changes necessary when we filtrate, the water parameters are perfect? Why bother with filtration if  weekly water changes are still absolutely necessary?

My water has 0 with Nitrates, Nitrites and Ammonia.. In a 40 gallon breeder tank with one GF in it(fan tail), clear water, fish looks happy, whatever that is, but everybody says weekly water changes are needed. I am really getting frustrated with this. I am a reasonably intelligent person and this does not make sense to me. In a 10 gallon tank with 5 small fish, I change one gallon every 4 weeks, and clean the gravel at the same time. I know that they are not GF, but it is a much smaller tank and there are 5 fish.

At Aquatic Enviroments, the best aquarium store in this area, a guy who works there told me that "change a couple gallons once a month".

Tell me something that makes sense which will support your POV, because I think this might be overkill. I am not sure it is, but neither am I convinced it is abusive to the fish if I don't follow this excessive practice of weekly WC. Thank you.

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Well Let me try an help ya....

 

Goldfish do produce a lot of waste and if you have a good filtration thats great that will help pick up and help keep the BBs in place... The reason for so many water changes.....

 

Good reading....

 

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/page/index.html/_/water-quality-articles/the-importance-of-water-changes-r200

 

 

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/page/index.html/_/water-quality-articles/water-change-how-often-r189

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Another bit of advice: What your pet store tells you may not work for every fish, so follow the advice of those who keep the particular fish you're caring for. Most pet shops focus on things like tropical fish, not goldfish. A goldfish should not be treated like a small tropical, just like you wouldn't treat an Oscar the same as a Discus. All fish have different needs, and the generalizations that most pet stores give just don't work for everything.

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All I got out of that is that it's important for their growth. I don't care if they, or in this case she, gets big or not. Actually had I known about this fact that they get very large, I would not have purchased them. (now one). I am not convinced, so probably I will increase the WC over what I do for the tropicals, but not at the draconian level accepted by the GF fancy.

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Another bit of advice: What your pet store tells you may not work for every fish, so follow the advice of those who keep the particular fish you're caring for. Most pet shops focus on things like tropical fish, not goldfish. A goldfish should not be treated like a small tropical, just like you wouldn't treat an Oscar the same as a Discus. All fish have different needs, and the generalizations that most pet stores give just don't work for everything.

The guy who told me this, actually does keep GF. Gracie will be way ahead of the other fish she was with at WM. I have made a decision to do weekly changes, but not the volume folks here recommend. 3 gallons each week should be very adequate, as well as gravel cleaning at the same time..

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Another bit of advice: What your pet store tells you may not work for every fish, so follow the advice of those who keep the particular fish you're caring for. Most pet shops focus on things like tropical fish, not goldfish. A goldfish should not be treated like a small tropical, just like you wouldn't treat an Oscar the same as a Discus. All fish have different needs, and the generalizations that most pet stores give just don't work for everything.

The guy who told me this, actually does keep GF. Gracie will be way ahead of the other fish she was with at WM. I have made a decision to do weekly changes, but not the volume folks here recommend. 3 gallons each week should be very adequate, as well as gravel cleaning at the same time..

 

I'd give a look at the second link Koko posted to get a better understanding of why doing more than a 7% water change is important, then. 

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Water changes can help to remove excess organic compounds, replace minerals and keep pH stable.  This is not a Kokos thing.  Any reputable source recommends regular water changes.  Personally, I enjoy the maintenance as part of the hobby and don't regard it as a chore.  It's just like walking your dog  :)

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Water changes can help to remove excess organic compounds, replace minerals and keep pH stable.  This is not a Kokos thing.  Any reputable source recommends regular water changes.  Personally, I enjoy the maintenance as part of the hobby and don't regard it as a chore.  It's just like walking your dog  :)

Or Combing your cat :thumbs:

 

I guess it all comes down to the level of care you want to give to your pet.... KG has been around for a very long time. Its not like we just made up this information. Its a collective group and we all learn from our experiences.....

 

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink  :)

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Water changes can help to remove excess organic compounds, replace minerals and keep pH stable.  This is not a Kokos thing.  Any reputable source recommends regular water changes.  Personally, I enjoy the maintenance as part of the hobby and don't regard it as a chore.  It's just like walking your dog  :)

Or Combing your cat :thumbs:

 

I guess it all comes down to the level of care you want to give to your pet.... KG has been around for a very long time. Its not like we just made up this information. Its a collective group and we all learn from our experiences.....

 

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink  :)

 

But nothing like changing the litter  :thumbdown

 

:rofl

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Hi mickeyrom. When nitrate hits 40, do a water change. The nitrate test is "harder" than the others, so be sure to follow the directions carefully. 

Oh yeah Diesel, I didn't do it right at first, but then I read the instructions. Definitely harder, but today it was at 0 again.

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Allan, you can do anything you want with your goldfish, and you can believe whoever you want.  The experienced people here find that by providing 20 gallons per fish, and changing 50% of the water weekly, and having a HOB filter that turns over 10X the tank volume per hour, even a beginner has a high probability of having healthy, long-lived  goldfish (provided he didn't start with sick fish).  That's a system for keeping goldfish.  There are many others.  Pick one and follow it.

 

There are many breeders of fancy goldfish who grow out their juveniles (to huge sizes) in 5 gallons per fish, 8 feedings a day, no filter, and 100% water changes daily or every other day.  That's a system that works for experienced breeders.   But it wouldn't work at all if they used 50% water changes weekly.

 

There are people who keep goldfish in ponds whose only water changes occur when they clean a filter or vacuum the crud from the bottom of the pond a couple of times a year.  However they get help from Mother Nature, who provides the pond with a huge diverse population of microbes that keep the water quite healthy, although sometimes pretty ugly.  That's a system.  If they scrubbed the algae from the sides of the pond or fed their fish the amount most people give their aquarium fish, the system wouldn't work.

 

If you think the guy at the fish store has a system that works, follow his system.  But follow his whole system, don't mix parts of that with parts his with parts of ours.

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Makes sense to me Sharon. I am not so rigid that at times I might change more than 3 gallons, but neither am I so rigid as to be tied to this fish tank that it becomes an annoyance rather than a pleasure. I realize that I am not going along with the "program" but I  am not a serious fish keeper in the traditional definition. I have a few tropical fish, not thing fancier than one Betta Splendens, and a couple of Guppies, 3 Zebras and two cories.They are in a total of three tanks. The 40 gallon than our GF lives in has more water volume than all the rest combined, by a large amount. I may add a second GF eventually, but I am undecided.

There is only one difference in the advice I am getting here and from Aquatic Environments, and that is re. the WC. I am not picking and choosing.Actually I am changing water more often than they recommended.

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Hi mickeyrom. When nitrate hits 40, do a water change. The nitrate test is "harder" than the others, so be sure to follow the directions carefully. 

 

This is the advice I would give to any fish keeper for pretty much any fish tank, not just goldfish. Unfortunately when stores tell people they can change X amount of water X times per month, they aren't necessarily taking into account the person's tank size or stocking levels which can vary, and people get the idea that it's time between changes that matters and not water quality. Changing a few gallons once per month might work in a 10 gallon tank with a couple small fish in it, but would not be advice I would give to someone keeping 10 fish in that same tank. Just something to keep in mind. 

 

tl;dr -- overstocked tanks need water changes more often, under stocked tanks can go a bit longer before water needs to be changed. But, water changes should keep nitrate levels below 40 and need to be done regularly. 

Edited by goldfishgirl82
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Hi mickeyrom. When nitrate hits 40, do a water change. The nitrate test is "harder" than the others, so be sure to follow the directions carefully. 

 

This is the advice I would give to any fish keeper for pretty much any fish tank, not just goldfish. Unfortunately when stores tell people they can change X amount of water X times per month, they aren't necessarily taking into account the person's tank size or stocking levels which can vary, and people get the idea that it's time between changes that matters and not water quality. Changing a few gallons once per month might work in a 10 gallon tank with a couple small fish in it, but would not be advice I would give to someone keeping 10 fish in that same tank. Just something to keep in mind. 

 

tl;dr -- overstocked tanks need water changes more often, under stocked tanks can go a bit longer before water needs to be changed. But, water changes should keep nitrate levels below 40 and need to be done regularly. 

 

I have a ten gallon with 2 cories and 3 zebras and clean the gravel and replace 1 gallon, once per month. I have been changing the filter too, but somebody here told me that it would cause a recycle, so now I am eliminating the charcoal and not changing the filter unless it's  aged beyond  just washing it out.

My GF is in a 40 gal breeder, and as she is quite small so far, I see no problems if I change only a couple gallons per week.I do NOT overfeed. The highest my Nitrate ever tested was 2 and usually it's 0.

Edited by mickeyrom
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Personally, I don't think that's enough of a water change on that 10 gallon. Most people recommend a 25% (2.5 gallon) weekly water change on a tank that size with that many fish... but if your nitrates are staying below 40 you can keep doing that if you feel it works for you. I would test the water weekly to be sure. 

Edited by goldfishgirl82
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Personally, I don't think that's enough of a water change on that 10 gallon. Most people recommend a 25% (2.5 gallon) weekly water change on a tank that size with that many fish... but if your nitrates are staying below 40 you can keep doing that if you feel it works for you. I would test the water weekly to be sure. 

You really think that 5 fish that small is too many?

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Water changes can help to remove excess organic compounds, replace minerals and keep pH stable.  This is not a Kokos thing.  Any reputable source recommends regular water changes.  Personally, I enjoy the maintenance as part of the hobby and don't regard it as a chore.  It's just like walking your dog  :)

This is soooo key! If you regaurd WCs as tedious annoying labor and a PITA :( it defeats the purpose of keeping fish, especially goldfish!

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Personally, I don't think that's enough of a water change on that 10 gallon. Most people recommend a 25% (2.5 gallon) weekly water change on a tank that size with that many fish... but if your nitrates are staying below 40 you can keep doing that if you feel it works for you. I would test the water weekly to be sure. 

You really think that 5 fish that small is too many?

 

 

I don't think it's too many fish for the tank. I think the amount of water changed when you change the water is not enough. If you're only changing 10% of the water once a month, the nitrates are going to build up a lot faster than you are removing them. 

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Water changes can help to remove excess organic compounds, replace minerals and keep pH stable.  This is not a Kokos thing.  Any reputable source recommends regular water changes.  Personally, I enjoy the maintenance as part of the hobby and don't regard it as a chore.  It's just like walking your dog  :)

This is soooo key! If you regaurd WCs as tedious annoying labor and a PITA :( it defeats the purpose of keeping fish, especially goldfish!

 

I can't disagree with that, but it really is a PITA. The GF were entirely my Wife's idea, and she admits that had she known what she knows now, that idea would have died on the vine. That is why I have not decided to get Gracie a companion. If she dies, then would be repeating the cycle, so to speak. No pun intended.So here we are , almost $400 later and trying our best, (it really is) to keep this one GF (less than 3" long) in a palatial 40 gallon home, do the limited WC, feed her one pellet at a time, give her veggies and  actually spend time visiting her. I joined two GF sites, and mostly I get a guilt trip for my troubles. I think places that sell GF should have a warning posted right next to the tank.

 

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I agree about the warning! I also think people should do research before buying any pet! The enclosure is almost always more expensive than the animal itself! :hug

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I agree about the warning! I also think people should do research before buying any pet! The enclosure is almost always more expensive than the animal itself! :hug

I had an enclosure, a ten gallon tank. Who knows except GF fanciers that they require so much space. There was a time when a ten gallon tank was considered pretty large, believe it or not.

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I agree about the warning! I also think people should do research before buying any pet! The enclosure is almost always more expensive than the animal itself! :hug

I had an enclosure, a ten gallon tank. Who knows except GF fanciers that they require so much space. There was a time when a ten gallon tank was considered pretty large, believe it or not.

 

Many people do not realize how big goldfish get. If I were to put a couple of lne in a 10 gallon, it would look absurd. It would be like making a dog live its life in a closet.

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I agree about the warning! I also think people should do research before buying any pet! The enclosure is almost always more expensive than the animal itself! :hug

I had an enclosure, a ten gallon tank. Who knows except GF fanciers that they require so much space. There was a time when a ten gallon tank was considered pretty large, believe it or not.

 

Many people do not realize how big goldfish get. If I were to put a couple of lne in a 10 gallon, it would look absurd. It would be like making a dog live its life in a closet.

 

 

Of course I didn't know how large GF get. I assumed the large ones I saw were a different  kind of fish. TG we didn't get a Comet, or common. BTW it is all relative. Living in a 40 gallon tank is still pretty cramped, don't you think? They swim a couple of feet and they have to turn, or bump into the glass.

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I have two adult comets (one is a shubunkin, but that's just a color variation) in a 40 B right now.  It's a holding tank for them while I'm treating them with dips.  They are  quite comfortable in there, although they were bothered by those transparent walls for the first week, since they've been in a pond for four years.  

 

If a fish is in a 3 foot long tank, it can't swim much more than a couple of feet before it has to turn around no matter how long it is.  Adult goldfish don't zip around like the kids do.  Fish biologists describe them as a sedentary species. It's not like they sit on the bottom, they are usually moving, but very slowly.  After all, if you go fast you might miss seeing something edible.

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