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Shannan Gilbert

Woke up this morning to a sick fish

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) .25
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) no test
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 10
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) .25
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)no test
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6 (I do not have a high Ph test kit)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API test kids , drops
      • * Water temperature? 70
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 40B, I just switched over on 3/29 from a 20G that had been running for aprox 3 months
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? One Aqua tech 20-40 and one Tertra Whisper 60 
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 10% daily to clean the bottom and at least 50% every 3 or 4 days
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 4/3 I did a 60% water change
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? two fish, one is a 10g blue oranda and the other is a 17g ruykin
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? I was using API tap water conditioner, but switched to Prime on 4/1 when I found out there was ammonia in my tap water
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Aqueon goldfish granules (pre soaked for a few minutes) twice a day. Pureed spinach, peas, and carrots gel food once a day( I just started this earlier this week)  Frozen blood worms once a week (they just got this for the first time two days ago. 
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Kordon Ich Attack 24ml added today
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. I treated for Ich once before with these same fish when I got them at the begining of March. I treated with Ich Attack and raised the temp up to 80 for one week. This was after seeing a few spot on the Ruykin. The spots went away after 3 days of treatment and I continuted to treat for 4 days afterwards. 
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? White spots on tail fin and pectoral fins. I noticed that the tail fin seems to be curing under a bit and his dorsal fin is being kept pulled down close to his body
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Bottom sitting, or sitting on the plants. This just started last night. I was on my way to bed and I noticed the Ruykin sitting on one of the plants. I just thought he was sleeping and I snapped a few pictures of it. Then this morning he didn't swim up to the front of the tank to greet me, and I knew there was something wrong. He is always been the friendliest out of the two, and anytime I walk by the tank he is right there to greet me. 

 

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I also noticed he did not eat this morning when I fed them. I have done a 15% WC since testing the water (to clean the bottom) and plan on doing a bigger WC later on today. 

 

My blue Oranda has no signs or symptoms of sickness. 

 

I have been struggling with deciding if I am feeding them enough, or over feeding them. So over feeding could be a factor in this. 

 

I also have an open top tank, which is not usually a problem in my house. But both my kids had friends over this weekend, and there was a few times I caught kids with sticking fingers into the tank water (the Ruykin will nibble at your hand looking for food)

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Have you ever treated with prazi or anything else for flukes?  You seem to be taking very good care of your fish. I can't comment on the value of Ich Attack since the company keeps the active ingredients secret.

 

Does his dorsal fin look frayed or is that just the picture?

Edited by shakaho

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To be honest I can't really tell. He is keeping it pulled into his body. I haven't ever treated for anything other than ich. 

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Hoping your fish to be fine once everything is figured out.

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I got some more pictures during water change. These are the only spots on him.

1bbde89fc24b284de8a4ff4839aca331.jpg

And you can see here how his tail fun is curling under on the ends.

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I also got a better look at his clamped dorsal fin. It dose not appear to be ragged.

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Let's start out by treating your fish with salt.  This is harmless to the fish, and effective against ich, as well as other problems.  You can use aquarium salt, or any other salt that contains nothing but NaCl.  Table salt will typically contain anti-caking agents which are harmful to fish.  A good buy is Mortons Canning and Pickling Salt, which is cheap and finely ground so it dissolves rapidly.

 

Please don't use any more of the Ich Attack, since we don't know how it might affect the treatment.

 

We want to use 0.3% salt, but we will get to this level gradually to keep the fish comfortable. Follow the procedure in this article.

 

You will keep the fish in 0.3% salt for two weeks after the last  ich spot has disappeared.  

 

After that, I recommend you treat your fish with praziquantel for flukes.  We do this routinely while quarantining new fish, since nearly all fish have flukes.

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My red and white Ruykin is currently being treated for ich or some other mysterious parasite. I have the salt up to .3‰, and have raised the tank temp to 75 (I have it set at 80, but apparently my heater is not big enough to heat my 40B to 80 degrees)

My fish dose seen to be getting better, he's not bottom sitting all day and has started to eat again. I have noticed that big color change occurring and some odd behavior. He's turn black on his fins, gill plates, head. I know goldfish can change color, but this is all with in the last 3 or 4 days. He is also doing this odd jerking about thing. I made a video, let me see if I can post it here.

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What are your current water parameters?

 

Can you post a picture showing the black?

 

I don't see the video.

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I can't comment on the value of Ich Attack since the company keeps the active ingredients secret.

The active ingredient is Napthoquinone which is supposed to have some anti-ich capabilities as well as activity againt gram positive bacteria.  But, the data I have been able to find supporting this is sketchy.  It might be a good option for salt sensitive fish, but I agree with you that salt is a better choice for Goldfish :)

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Hope he feels better.

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Goldfish behavior:

oops, i guess I didn't load the video right. Let me try this.

 

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That video was taken on the 14th. These pictures was taken today.

228d88ca380b9b445f1ea3c578f637d7.jpg

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He has gotten a lot more black on him in just two days. I know fish change color, I just didn't realize it was this quick, and was wondering if it had anything to do with the salt in the water.

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Is there any way this fish could have been injured? Goldfish are notorious for getting themselves trapped someplace that seemed harmless and getting injured trying to get out. Was the black area on the gill covers red before it turned black? It looks purplish in the pictures.

The black spots look like what you see with healing injuries or chemical burns.

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I can't comment on the value of Ich Attack since the company keeps the active ingredients secret.

The active ingredient is Napthoquinone which is supposed to have some anti-ich capabilities as well as activity againt gram positive bacteria.  But, the data I have been able to find supporting this is sketchy.  It might be a good option for salt sensitive fish, but I agree with you that salt is a better choice for Goldfish :)

Thanks for the info, Jared. When I couldn't find the active ingredient on the company website, I assumed it was snake oil. :)

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I don't think s/he got stuck anywhere. The only thing I have in my tank is 4 silk plants, (3 potted in small ceramic pots) a bubble wand. I am mainly bare bottomed with about 15 or so large (golf ball size ish) rocks on one side of the tank as their "foraging" area. Then there is the heater and the tubes for my HOB filters. 

 

His gills were white up until a few days ago. (to be honest they are what worry me the most) My water parameters are the same, my WC routine is still the same (10% daily to clean the bottom, 50 to 60% every 3 or 4 days)

 

I noticed the change the most after my last large WC. I have my tank at .3% salt to treat possible ich. During my WC I calculated how much salt I would have to add back to keep it at .3%. At first I wondered if I had calculated wrong, and added to much salt, which is what is causing the color change. But my blue oranda is doing just fine, no drastic color changes. He has had a behavior change since my Ruykin got sick, but he was always the shy follower, and I have always just attributed his behavior change to the fact that the fish he followed around is sick. 

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I can't comment on the value of Ich Attack since the company keeps the active ingredients secret.

The active ingredient is Napthoquinone which is supposed to have some anti-ich capabilities as well as activity againt gram positive bacteria.  But, the data I have been able to find supporting this is sketchy.  It might be a good option for salt sensitive fish, but I agree with you that salt is a better choice for Goldfish :)

 

Thanks for the info, Jared. When I couldn't find the active ingredient on the company website, I assumed it was snake oil. :)

 

I still might be.  I haven't found any real evidence that it works at all :rofl

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