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Dropsy, Red cap oranda, need advice from expert!


kwen

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Hi,

 

I have been fish keeping for about 2 years now...still very new to everything.

 

Four days ago I noticed raised scales near her gills...she was also acting lethargic.

I moved her into a qt tank with epsom salt at first. I purchased kanamycin 100% (69.00 on Angelsplus) and started her on that Thursday...I overnighted the meds thinking it would help.

 

However, I am not sure if I am too late. That picture is from two days ago. Today she seems more active...not bottom sitting anymore....and shes looking around for food. Her scales are still a little puffy BUT her swollen eyes are gone...

 

Dose 3/5 of kanamycin starts tomorrow.

.

She is still eating and pooping well...is that a good sign? Infact the whole time she has had an appetite.

 

Can anyone tell me if there is any chance of saving her...I love this fish so much...I know this is a very fatal disease/infection...Do fish recover?

 

My tank has always been pristine...I feed them a varied diet...I know it's my fault somehow.

 

She was always so healthy.

 

Will kanamycin kill my bb? Right now the QT does not have a filter...just a bubbler. I keep up with 75-100% WCs between 48hr med doses. Should I add one?

 

Thanks so much!

 

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:hi It sounds like you have a chance to save her as she has shown some improvement.  I would suggest adding Epsom Salt at 1 Teaspoon per 5 gallons of water.  Dissolve it in some water before adding it to the tank.  

 

Is this Kanamycin Powder or Food?  What are the dosing direction?  $69  :yikes  How much did you get?  The Kanamycin alone might do the trick, but we usually suggest combination of kanamycin and Metronidazole plus the Epsom salt for dropsy.

 

Are you using Prime in between water changes to manage the ammonia and nitrite?

 

It would also be very helpful if you could answer the following questions to the best of your ability:

 

 
  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
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:hi It sounds like you have a chance to save her as she has shown some improvement.  I would suggest adding Epsom Salt at 1 Teaspoon per 5 gallons of water.  Dissolve it in some water before adding it to the tank.  

 

Is this Kanamycin Powder or Food?  What are the dosing direction?  $69  :yikes  How much did you get?  The Kanamycin alone might do the trick, but we usually suggest combination of kanamycin and Metronidazole plus the Epsom salt for dropsy.

 

Are you using Prime in between water changes to manage the ammonia and nitrite?

 

It would also be very helpful if you could answer the following questions to the best of your ability:

 

 
  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

 

 

I wasn't sure if I should stick with the salt, so I will add it back in tomorrow morning. The kanamycin is powder. The dosing directions are 1/2 tsp per 10g every 48hrs for 10 days. It is labeled as Kanamycin 100% at 3 ounces.

 

I am using Prime inbetween the changes, her QT tank is 10g and she is about 3 1/2".

 

Here is the info for the tank she was in before the QT:

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 20-30ppm
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0 (last I tested it came up 0)
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) - 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) - 0 ( tested this about 8 months ago)
  • * Ph Level, Tank - 7.6-8
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH is 8, sorry I don't have the test for KH, GH. If this is important I will get it.
  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master test kit, liquid.
    • Water temperature? - 69/70
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55g...1 1/2 years
    • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? two aqua clear 70g filters and one 20g filter loaded with extra sponge.
    • * How often do you change the water and how much? once a week, 85-100%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 5 days ago, 100% (this was when she was acting sick)
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 6...Two fish are about 1 1/2", two are 3 1/2, the others are about 2"...Initially she was in a 40g breeder by herself about 5 months ago I moved her due a move...I was going to purchase a new 40g to move her back into...

 

  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Just prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Repashy super green (twice a day), peas/zucchini (every other day), blood worms/brine shrimp (once a week), seaweed (once a month).
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? She was bottom sitting last week which was unlike her...she is usually very strong and active...very friendly. She was also gasping and had raised scales near her gills.

 

For the QT tank...

 

First day...Epsom salt 1/2tsp for 10gallons. I soaked her food in salt as well.

Second day- soaked food in salt, fed peas.

Third day-First does of kanamycin 1/2tsp per 10g. Epsom salt stopped. She looked horrible. Eyes were popping out and scales more ruffled, bottom sitting.

Fourth day-Improvement, eye started going down, movement improved and no longer bottom sitting, stool is normal.

Fifth day-Second dose at 1/2tsp per 10g...improvement and no more bottom sitting but still has raised scales though not as puffy.

Sixth day-Does not bottom sit or gasp...her eyes are not puffy but still has a little bit of puffiness in her scales.

 

 

Each dose I change 100% of her water. I cut back on her food and only feed tiny bits and peas to help with any constipation...

 

I hope I answered everything...thank you so much for the help!

 

Also...is it safe to add a filter to the QT? I am worried I might transfer a disease to it. At this point should I get the second medication for her?

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I think what you are doing is good.  I would add the Epsom salt back until the scales are completely flat.  It seems like the Kanamycin is working, so I would keep that going.  It might be a good idea to order some Metronidazole in case the Kanaplex doesn't cure this alone or there is a relapse.  This site has both medicines for a great price:

 

http://www.petmountain.com/searchx/0/0/1/1/?s=Metroplex&g=SEARCH

 

http://www.petmountain.com/searchx/0/0/1/1/?s=Kanaplex&g=SEARCH

 

It might be a good idea to get a test for your KH if you find that your tank pH drops significantly.  If the test show a low KH, you can correct this easily with baking soda.  There is a link about this under my signature.  

 

I would also consider adding more protein into their diet.  I like New Life Spectrum Thera-A 1 mm sinking pellets and Hikari Lionhead.  If you don't want to do pellets, you could up their frozen bloodworms to every day.  A more complete diet will help them to fight off diseases.  The Garlic in the Thera-A helps to prevent internal infections.  I feed my fish sinking pellets in the morning, Repashy Super Green for Lunch and frozen bloodworms for dinner.  Another plan could be pellets in the morning and an alteration of Super Green and bloodworms at night.  

 

Lastly, I think you are overstocked in the 55 and I am concerned about health issues as the fish grow.  Are your measurements from nose to end of tail or nose to peduncle?

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I think what you are doing is good.  I would add the Epsom salt back until the scales are completely flat.  It seems like the Kanamycin is working, so I would keep that going.  It might be a good idea to order some Metronidazole in case the Kanaplex doesn't cure this alone or there is a relapse.  This site has both medicines for a great price:

 

http://www.petmountain.com/searchx/0/0/1/1/?s=Metroplex&g=SEARCH

 

http://www.petmountain.com/searchx/0/0/1/1/?s=Kanaplex&g=SEARCH

 

It might be a good idea to get a test for your KH if you find that your tank pH drops significantly.  If the test show a low KH, you can correct this easily with baking soda.  There is a link about this under my signature.  

 

I would also consider adding more protein into their diet.  I like New Life Spectrum Thera-A 1 mm sinking pellets and Hikari Lionhead.  If you don't want to do pellets, you could up their frozen bloodworms to every day.  A more complete diet will help them to fight off diseases.  The Garlic in the Thera-A helps to prevent internal infections.  I feed my fish sinking pellets in the morning, Repashy Super Green for Lunch and frozen bloodworms for dinner.  Another plan could be pellets in the morning and an alteration of Super Green and bloodworms at night.  

 

Lastly, I think you are overstocked in the 55 and I am concerned about health issues as the fish grow.  Are your measurements from nose to end of tail or nose to peduncle?

 

I just ordered the Metronidazole and a KH test (from amazon).

 

I've strayed away from pellets but I might try it again, maybe alternate with bloodworms/pellets each day. I've seen that pellet w/garlic at Petco. I will definitely add more protein in.

 

My fish measurments are to end of tail.

 

The fish in the 55g were mostly "rescued" from Walmart so I am sure they have growth issues. They are nice and shiny and very active but small. Those few were my first fist so I had no idea what to look for.

 

The red cap was a local fish store purchase. When I got her (I think a year and a half ago) she was an inch...now she is about 3 1/2 maybe 4. She seems to grow a lot but I probably inhibited her growth now :( Not sure how big she should be for the age. She is very plump and stocky. I have pictures if that helps?

 

I really would like to work with orandas specifically but I am not off to a great start. I am going out to purchase a 40g B this weekend for the oranda once she recovers (hopefully). Working on setting up a fish room in my basement so I have more room for larger tanks.

 

 

 

I really appreciate the time and advice!!

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Sure, we'd love to see some pics of your fish and tanks.  The 40 gallon will be ideal for 2 Orandas.  It seems like you are being hard on yourself.  This is a learning process and you are off to a good start :)

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