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Is our hobby ethical?


Jim_D

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I don't worry about how ethical something is, beyond my own actions and contributions to it. I'm not responsible for every other fish owner's level of knowledge and husbandry practices - I'd drive myself nuts if I went down that road - but I am absolutely responsible for how I care for and manage the animals in my charge and I strive to do the best I can for each of them.

For me, thats enough.

I agree 100%. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Edited by kehresmann
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  • Regular Member

I don't worry about how ethical something is, beyond my own actions and contributions to it. I'm not responsible for every other fish owner's level of knowledge and husbandry practices - I'd drive myself nuts if I went down that road - but I am absolutely responsible for how I care for and manage the animals in my charge and I strive to do the best I can for each of them.

For me, thats enough.

 

 

I totally get your post, but I have to say that it's 'our' consumerism for these fish that fuels the unethical behaviour. So if there's a cause and a consequence, some of it lays at our own feet.

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I don't worry about how ethical something is, beyond my own actions and contributions to it. I'm not responsible for every other fish owner's level of knowledge and husbandry practices - I'd drive myself nuts if I went down that road - but I am absolutely responsible for how I care for and manage the animals in my charge and I strive to do the best I can for each of them.

For me, thats enough.

 

 

I totally get your post, but I have to say that it's 'our' consumerism for these fish that fuels the unethical behaviour. So if there's a cause and a consequence, some of it lays at our own feet.

 

True, but to an extent, unavoidable. And it's throughout life... Want to eat meat? A cow dies. Want to eat vegetables? Pesticides will be sprayed.  Want a weed free lawn? Herbicides will be sprayed. Want a green lawn in the summer? Water will be wasted. Want to wear clothes? An Asian child will be abused. Want cheap stuff? Again with the Asian child thing. Some of this is slightly exaggerated but I think my point is clear.

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I don't worry about how ethical something is, beyond my own actions and contributions to it. I'm not responsible for every other fish owner's level of knowledge and husbandry practices - I'd drive myself nuts if I went down that road - but I am absolutely responsible for how I care for and manage the animals in my charge and I strive to do the best I can for each of them.

For me, thats enough.

 

 

I totally get your post, but I have to say that it's 'our' consumerism for these fish that fuels the unethical behaviour. So if there's a cause and a consequence, some of it lays at our own feet.

 

True, but to an extent, unavoidable. And it's throughout life... Want to eat meat? A cow dies. Want to eat vegetables? Pesticides will be sprayed.  Want a weed free lawn? Herbicides will be sprayed. Want a green lawn in the summer? Water will be wasted. Want to wear clothes? An Asian child will be abused. Want cheap stuff? Again with the Asian child thing. Some of this is slightly exaggerated but I think my point is clear.

 

 

 

There are many organisations from local government right through to federal governments in many countries trying to reform albeit slowly the things that you mentioned.

 

I think it's just an easy out to think that 'nothing will ever change so why bother' all change starts by the small people at a grass roots level. The majority of posters in this thread acknowledge that things aren't great in the trade of ornamental fish.

 

Wouldn't it be good if a set of standards were in place? A simple start would be organisations like the RSPCA being given the credentials and enforcement controls over LFS's like they have over other pets.

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I actually stopped keeping marines because it weighed on my conscience that they were wild caught!!!!!

Yup that was me too... and In CA they got alot of there fish off the coast...:(

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In my early days of fish keeping I had the mindset that "if it's not my fish, it's none of my business" and "nothing will change, so what's the point in trying" (actually I think the latter used to be my general thoughts on life  :thumbdown ). Luckily I've moved on from there! I can't change everything, but at least I can do the best for my fish and fish of those who are willing to be given advice, and decide where my money goes. I'm slowly steering myself away from the chain stores like Petco, at least the local ones where the employees know nothing and the animals are kept in awful conditions. I pretty much feel no need to shop there now since the fish store of my dreams opened in my city a few months ago! Owned by one guy, no other employees. It's small, but the stock is AMAZING and the owner is very knowledgeable. Best part is all the fish are kept in pristine conditions! Even the bettas. He occasionally has a few in cups (most are in mini tanks or mixed in with the other tropicals) but the ones that are get daily water changes at least. Felt like I struck gold when that place owned :clapping:

My point is, it's easy to say that since you can't change everything you shouldn't try to change anything. But that's not a very proactive mindset to have. The hobby is slowly progressing. It's obvious change is being made - fifty years ago the idea that goldfish should be kept in large tanks was practically non existent. That change wouldn't have happened if everything had just said "not my fish, not my business" and not even tried. Koko's would very likely not be here... or at least not the way it is now.

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So much angst in this thread! :yikes:rofl

 

Goldfish has been bred and kept for more than several hundred years. Unfortunately, there is no going back now. It's a very profitable business, and that will not change any time. I'm not being defeatist, however. I can't stop the business, nor do I want to. What I can do is influence how things can be, such as making sure to pass the word along on basic principles of goldfish keeping. That's all we can do, but that's enough, I think. The prime example is the bowl. What was once a ubiquitous item is now something that even big chain stores will frown upon. So, let's keep at it, and improve the hobby as best as we can. And enjoy it at the same time. :)

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I was happy to find this on the Australia RSPCA website -

 

RSPCA Policy A10 Housing of companion animals

 

10.4

Fish

Where fish are maintained in captivity, particular consideration should be given to temperature control, water quality, stocking density, species compatibility, the surface area and volume of the container and the provision of safety areas (e.g. in fish ponds) and suitable environmental enrichment materials.

 

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The rspca aus website also recommends 50l as a minimum for goldies which is still lower than what we say but a lot better than what pet stores give..my "friend" bought a 90 litre tank and they told her its plenty of room for 12 goldies x.x and she believes the pet stores over me

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The rspca aus website also recommends 50l as a minimum for goldies which is still lower than what we say but a lot better than what pet stores give..my "friend" bought a 90 litre tank and they told her its plenty of room for 12 goldies x.x and she believes the pet stores over me

 

That's so horrific.... she'll learn fast if she even pays attention to her water parameters. :/ (Or, when they all start dying)

I think some people just don't understand that water is so important to their fish's health. Not keeping up with your water quality is like forgetting to feed your cats or dogs for days on end. 

 

If people understood how water quality works, and understood how much waste goldfish produce, it would be so much easier to convince them to do the better thing for their fish. 

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A lot of the things they're talking about here are regulated in a lot of other countries, including the USA and AUS.. India just needs its own laws on this.

Edited by ChelseaM
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