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Demekin Fry Diary


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  • Regular Member

We can't tell you what to do, but I would take a close look at them now and for the next few weeks.  See if any are developing interesting traits.  Consider Jenna's Betty - the telechu with no dorsal and telescope eyes.  She's a really interesting and rare fish.  

 

Essentially, I would humanely cull any that looked sick or have uninteresting traits and raise a few promising ones.

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We can't tell you what to do, but I would take a close look at them now and for the next few weeks. See if any are developing interesting traits. Consider Jenna's Betty - the telechu with no dorsal and telescope eyes. She's a really interesting and rare fish.

Essentially, I would humanely cull any that looked sick or have uninteresting traits and raise a few promising ones.

Thank you so much for the advice. I recently saw a picture on the internet of a ranchu x ryukin and it just made me think the worst I guess. I'm sure there will be some interesting traits in there somewhere. Like you say, I'll just have to wait and see
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I thought of betty as soon as you said they were a cross but its really your choice. I would love a ranchu cross demekin but oh well I'm in the UK

You'll be pleased to know that I am also in the UK. Leicestershire to be precise. I am not yet 100% sure of what I am going to do with the babies but I think I may go down the route of keeping them, but performing regular, heavy culling.
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I thought of betty as soon as you said they were a cross but its really your choice. I would love a ranchu cross demekin but oh well I'm in the UK

You'll be pleased to know that I am also in the UK. Leicestershire to be precise. I am not yet 100% sure of what I am going to do with the babies but I think I may go down the route of keeping them, but performing regular, heavy culling.

That's awesome to know you are in the UK too :). By the way if you ever need to get rid of any baby demekin/ranchu crosses I won't turn them down unless my parents say I cant have any

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I thought of betty as soon as you said they were a cross but its really your choice. I would love a ranchu cross demekin but oh well I'm in the UK

You'll be pleased to know that I am also in the UK. Leicestershire to be precise. I am not yet 100% sure of what I am going to do with the babies but I think I may go down the route of keeping them, but performing regular, heavy culling.
That's awesome to know you are in the UK too :). By the way if you ever need to get rid of any baby demekin/ranchu crosses I won't turn them down unless my parents say I cant have any
Well I'll bare that in mind mate! Thanks for the offer. Im expecting to get a fair few more spawns from these guys in the coming weeks and I doubt I'll be able to raise them all to maturity. After culling, ill see how many I have and send you a message if I've got any going. First come first serve! [emoji6]
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I thought of betty as soon as you said they were a cross but its really your choice. I would love a ranchu cross demekin but oh well I'm in the UK

You'll be pleased to know that I am also in the UK. Leicestershire to be precise. I am not yet 100% sure of what I am going to do with the babies but I think I may go down the route of keeping them, but performing regular, heavy culling.

That's awesome to know you are in the UK too :). By the way if you ever need to get rid of any baby demekin/ranchu crosses I won't turn them down unless my parents say I cant have any

Well I'll bare that in mind mate! Thanks for the offer. Im expecting to get a fair few more spawns from these guys in the coming weeks and I doubt I'll be able to raise them all to maturity. After culling, ill see how many I have and send you a message if I've got any going. First come first serve! [emoji6]

Kk thanks :)

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--8th April 2015--

So as you guys know, the fry I am raising are actually a ranchu demekin cross - not pure demekin as I had originally thought.

I was originally quite upset by this as I really wanted to be able to see the fry develop and become ever-more resemblant of their demekin parents and develop the unique traits possessed by their parents.

The first option that came into my head was disposal by some means - be it by culling or even rehoming, but then after getting some great advice/inspiration from Motherredcap I decided to keep the fry and raise them as telechus (telescope x ranchus)

So, now that I have ranchu attributes to consider, I really need to reconsider my future plans for these fish. In order to be able to develop these fish to their fullest potential, some big changes are going to have to be made to my raising methods.

For example:

I will be culling considerably more heavily as a larger percentage of the fry will be of substandard quality.

I will be culling out different traitgrowth.fish with dorsal fins.

I will be grooming the fish in shallow water as opposed to deep water.

I will be raising the babies in green water in order to encourage good wen growth.

So that is just a small list of what are - in my opinion - the most drastic changes I will need to make to their future living arrangements.

GOOD NEWS!!!!

So, some of you may be thinking 'how on earth is this guy going to find any fish of decent quality in a batch of 13 fry?'...

Well, this morning, just as my new shipment of demekins arrived, I saw my fish at it again, so I quickly ran over to the tank to see my black ranchu being chased all over the tank by two of my male demekins and a light scattering of eggs sprawled across the bottom of the tank. I quickly grabbed a bowl and hand spawned them so that I wouldn't have to move all my fish out onto a separate tank to be able to raise the babies in the main one.

Being my first hand spawn I was in awe at how these eggs just came flowing out of her into the bowl. I repeated the same process with both of the males from the tank making sure to swirl the eggs into the water to prevent clumping.

All round I think it was a pretty successful spawn and I now have quite a large batch consisting of a couple of hundred eggs.

The bowl is now floating in my quarantine tank with my new demekins at a regular temperature of 73°. Hopefully they will have hatched by the end of the week [emoji13]

Here are some pictures of the real mother and the new batch of eggs:

002a98271d6c30447800ea88161d2999.jpg

dee245229e323973c025236ef489299d.jpg

As you can see, there is a higher concentration of eggs in the middle of the bowl and a lot of the eggs are touching each other. I maybe should've chosen to use a flatter bowl. Do you think this will be a problem or will they still a hatch fine??

I would like to say another huge thank you to motherredcap for her great advice albeit inspiration and I wish you all the best of luck with your own fishy adventures [emoji6]

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I'm glad you are interested in the project! The mother is beautiful.  Here is the famous Betty's introduction thread, if you haven't seen it. 

 

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/117040-ive-got-to-telechu-how-happy-we-all-are-pic-heavy/?hl=betty

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I'm glad you are interested in the project! The mother is beautiful. Here is the famous Betty's introduction thread, if you haven't seen it.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/117040-ive-got-to-telechu-how-happy-we-all-are-pic-heavy/?hl=betty

I don't think I've seen that thread. I saw a few others about her and her dropsy, poor thing [emoji26] [emoji26] I'll looks at that one in a bit though
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--Genetics--

Okay guys and girls, so this isn't a full update but I just wanted to discuss some of the calculations I have made regarding the genetics and traits that will be expressed by these fish once they are fully mature.

This is my very first shot at breeding goldfish - as you will know if you've been following the thread - so I'm not 100% sure about all of my calculations here in the way of genetics so do not assume that everything I say here is correct. As I say, I am a goldfish beginner so if anyone notices any mistakes or errors in any of my calculations, please tell me!! 

While my knowledge of raising the fry themselves may not be the best, I do have a keen interest in and relatively good knowledge of genetics due to my previous experiences with guppy breeding.

By drawing a basic punnet square, I was able to calculate that in the first generation of fry (F1), the telescope eye trait will not be expressed and will lie dormant. This is due to the fact that all the male gametes (sperms) from the demekins were carrying telescope eye genes whereas all the female gametes (eggs) from the ranchu possessed the ordinary, flat eyed genes. For those of you who don't know, telescope eyes are a 'homozygous recessive' and normal eyes are 'homozygous dominant' meaning that the only traits that will be expressed from this spawning will be normal eyes, however all the babies will still carry the dormant telescope eye gene - it just won't be expressed.

To help you understand this, here is a basic punnet square I drew to represent this cross:

c158dccfe513f95fffb618c39c644e3f.jpg

The recessive genes are represented by a lower case 't' whereas the dominant genes are represented by an upper case 'T'.

As this punnet square represents, the only allele that will be expressed by the fry in F1 will be that of the female who we know is a ranchu. In other words - no telescope eyes for any of the fry in F1.

When these fry reach maturity, I would continue the line (line breeding) in order to preserve the genes and - in an effect - strengthen the gene pool of the line. I could do this in a number of ways. The first way and the way most people would probably go about breeding would be to go out to the pet store or a breeder and select a nice fish of the opposing sex and breed that with the fish from F1. This is called outcrossing and should only really be performed when beginning a line at the origin (O) or if/when new genetics need to be introduced to the line be it for a new colouration, or if copious amounts of inbreeding has weakened the fish and new genetics are desperately needed. The way I would go about producing the second generation (F2) would be by performing a 'back cross' to the father of the babies.

Here, another punnet square shows the outcome of this spawn:

fce12089020c27f97bf47bbb19647cf8.jpg

So as you can see, F2 gives us some very interesting results! Roughly 50% of the resulting fry will express the telescope eye allele with the other 50% expressing normal eyes.

This is because in two of the boxes, the homozygous dominant allele (normal eyes) is present causing the homozygous recessive allele to lie dominant. The resulting fish is called a 'carrier' of the telescope eye trait.

In the other two boxes, there is no homozygous dominant allele and thus, the resulting babies will express the telescope eye trait!!

So, in short what I'm saying is, the F1 babies from this crossbreed will not express the telescope eye trait, however in F2, roughly 50% of the fry will! [emoji5] [emoji5]

I apologise if this has been confusing to any of you reading this. It isn't that hard to get your head around after a little bit of research though. Punnet squares are extremely powerful tools in the world of genetics and they allow us fishkeepers to make extremely accurate predictions on the outcomes of virtually any spawn so to any of you who are hoping to start breeding your fish seriously, I word really recommend researching them and learning how to use them! [emoji5]

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--Genetics--

Okay guys and girls, so this isn't a full update but I just wanted to discuss some of the calculations I have made regarding the genetics and traits that will be expressed by these fish once they are fully mature.

This is my very first shot at breeding goldfish - as you will know if you've been following the thread - so I'm not 100% sure about all of my calculations here in the way of genetics so do not assume that everything I say here is correct. As I say, I am a goldfish beginner so if anyone notices any mistakes or errors in any of my calculations, please tell me!! 

While my knowledge of raising the fry themselves may not be the best, I do have a keen interest in and relatively good knowledge of genetics due to my previous experiences with guppy breeding.

By drawing a basic punnet square, I was able to calculate that in the first generation of fry (F1), the telescope eye trait will not be expressed and will lie dormant. This is due to the fact that all the male gametes (sperms) from the demekins were carrying telescope eye genes whereas all the female gametes (eggs) from the ranchu possessed the ordinary, flat eyed genes. For those of you who don't know, telescope eyes are a 'homozygous recessive' and normal eyes are 'homozygous dominant' meaning that the only traits that will be expressed from this spawning will be normal eyes, however all the babies will still carry the dormant telescope eye gene - it just won't be expressed.

To help you understand this, here is a basic punnet square I drew to represent this cross:

c158dccfe513f95fffb618c39c644e3f.jpg

The recessive genes are represented by a lower case 't' whereas the dominant genes are represented by an upper case 'T'.

As this punnet square represents, the only allele that will be expressed by the fry in F1 will be that of the female who we know is a ranchu. In other words - no telescope eyes for any of the fry in F1.

When these fry reach maturity, I would continue the line (line breeding) in order to preserve the genes and - in an effect - strengthen the gene pool of the line. I could do this in a number of ways. The first way and the way most people would probably go about breeding would be to go out to the pet store or a breeder and select a nice fish of the opposing sex and breed that with the fish from F1. This is called outcrossing and should only really be performed when beginning a line at the origin (O) or if/when new genetics need to be introduced to the line be it for a new colouration, or if copious amounts of inbreeding has weakened the fish and new genetics are desperately needed. The way I would go about producing the second generation (F2) would be by performing a 'back cross' to the father of the babies.

Here, another punnet square shows the outcome of this spawn:

fce12089020c27f97bf47bbb19647cf8.jpg

So as you can see, F2 gives us some very interesting results! Roughly 50% of the resulting fry will express the telescope eye allele with the other 50% expressing normal eyes.

This is because in two of the boxes, the homozygous dominant allele (normal eyes) is present causing the homozygous recessive allele to lie dominant. The resulting fish is called a 'carrier' of the telescope eye trait.

In the other two boxes, there is no homozygous dominant allele and thus, the resulting babies will express the telescope eye trait!!

So, in short what I'm saying is, the F1 babies from this crossbreed will not express the telescope eye trait, however in F2, roughly 50% of the fry will! [emoji5] [emoji5]

I apologise if this has been confusing to any of you reading this. It isn't that hard to get your head around after a little bit of research though. Punnet squares are extremely powerful tools in the world of genetics and they allow us fishkeepers to make extremely accurate predictions on the outcomes of virtually any spawn so to any of you who are hoping to start breeding your fish seriously, I word really recommend researching them and learning how to use them! [emoji5]

Great read and the drawings helped :)

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--Genetics--

Okay guys and girls, so this isn't a full update but I just wanted to discuss some of the calculations I have made regarding the genetics and traits that will be expressed by these fish once they are fully mature.

This is my very first shot at breeding goldfish - as you will know if you've been following the thread - so I'm not 100% sure about all of my calculations here in the way of genetics so do not assume that everything I say here is correct. As I say, I am a goldfish beginner so if anyone notices any mistakes or errors in any of my calculations, please tell me!! 

While my knowledge of raising the fry themselves may not be the best, I do have a keen interest in and relatively good knowledge of genetics due to my previous experiences with guppy breeding.

By drawing a basic punnet square, I was able to calculate that in the first generation of fry (F1), the telescope eye trait will not be expressed and will lie dormant. This is due to the fact that all the male gametes (sperms) from the demekins were carrying telescope eye genes whereas all the female gametes (eggs) from the ranchu possessed the ordinary, flat eyed genes. For those of you who don't know, telescope eyes are a 'homozygous recessive' and normal eyes are 'homozygous dominant' meaning that the only traits that will be expressed from this spawning will be normal eyes, however all the babies will still carry the dormant telescope eye gene - it just won't be expressed.

To help you understand this, here is a basic punnet square I drew to represent this cross:

c158dccfe513f95fffb618c39c644e3f.jpg

The recessive genes are represented by a lower case 't' whereas the dominant genes are represented by an upper case 'T'.

As this punnet square represents, the only allele that will be expressed by the fry in F1 will be that of the female who we know is a ranchu. In other words - no telescope eyes for any of the fry in F1.

When these fry reach maturity, I would continue the line (line breeding) in order to preserve the genes and - in an effect - strengthen the gene pool of the line. I could do this in a number of ways. The first way and the way most people would probably go about breeding would be to go out to the pet store or a breeder and select a nice fish of the opposing sex and breed that with the fish from F1. This is called outcrossing and should only really be performed when beginning a line at the origin (O) or if/when new genetics need to be introduced to the line be it for a new colouration, or if copious amounts of inbreeding has weakened the fish and new genetics are desperately needed. The way I would go about producing the second generation (F2) would be by performing a 'back cross' to the father of the babies.

Here, another punnet square shows the outcome of this spawn:

fce12089020c27f97bf47bbb19647cf8.jpg

So as you can see, F2 gives us some very interesting results! Roughly 50% of the resulting fry will express the telescope eye allele with the other 50% expressing normal eyes.

This is because in two of the boxes, the homozygous dominant allele (normal eyes) is present causing the homozygous recessive allele to lie dominant. The resulting fish is called a 'carrier' of the telescope eye trait.

In the other two boxes, there is no homozygous dominant allele and thus, the resulting babies will express the telescope eye trait!!

So, in short what I'm saying is, the F1 babies from this crossbreed will not express the telescope eye trait, however in F2, roughly 50% of the fry will! [emoji5] [emoji5]

I apologise if this has been confusing to any of you reading this. It isn't that hard to get your head around after a little bit of research though. Punnet squares are extremely powerful tools in the world of genetics and they allow us fishkeepers to make extremely accurate predictions on the outcomes of virtually any spawn so to any of you who are hoping to start breeding your fish seriously, I word really recommend researching them and learning how to use them! [emoji5]

Great read and the drawings helped :)
Thanks for the feedback!! Glad you enjoyed it!
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--9th April 2015--

My first batch of demechus seem to be doing very well - as usual. I will say though, my extensive research on goldfish fry development has left me somewhat disheartened as the growth rate of this batch is considerably slower that that of the ranchu master, Alexander Vasiljev's top view ranchus. This is of course greatly due to the fact that the babies had to go without live food for nearly a week whilst I was on holiday and Alexander Vasiljev has considerably more knowledge and experience when it comes to this subject.

Here are some update pictures of the fry from this morning:

13e6b8427e8fa35cacf4bec4600abf70.jpg

dc0b466c5e0f6c416d1b27df6482847b.jpg

As you can see, the new location of the basin has not been a problem and algae has continued to grow readily on the walls of their tub, aiding me in the removal of nutrients (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and providing a constant food source for the fry to graze on.

It has been 24 hours since I hand spawned the second batch of fry and the results look very promising. I have transferred the bowl the eggs are adhered to into my heated quarantine tub housing my new demekin stock so that the eggs will be kept at a steady, constant temperature of 73° to ensure good development during the embryonic stage. At higher temperatures 80°+, fry have been known to exhibit severe growth deformities so temperatures in the mid 70°s are really ideal for good, steady and - most importantly - healthy development.

Here is a picture of the tub holding the spawning bowl:

7ec6f276326f2f9443e368becff010a7.jpg

The bowl is secured to the edge of the tub with cable ties to keep it from floating freely.

Usually in untreated water, fuzzy, infertile eggs would start to appear around the 24 hour mark, however, seeing as I have treated the water with methylene blue, the eggs do not turn fuzzy with fungus, but rather turn a cloudy white as they begin to break down. I would strongly suggest using methylene blue to hatch goldfish eggs, as fungus can quickly spread from infertile eggs to fertile eggs, rendering them useless. Methylene blue prevents the growth of fungus and kills any developing spores, preventing contamination.

Now, as you guys know, I am still unsure of what to do with the fry of these spawns. I understand that this is very good practise for me, but I wouldn't want to have go grow these fry to maybe 2-3 inches and then have to cull them all as I have nowhere to house them. As I stand at the moment, I am not planning on developing this as a line because I simply don't have the resources. I agree with motherredcap that it will be very interesting to see if any interesting, albeit peculiar traits are expressed as a result of this cross but I quite frankly do not want to raise ugly fish should they turn out that way.

I will certainly be raising the best selection of these fry after intensive culling to possibly the point where they show colours, but after that, I fear that I will have reached a bit of a dead end whereby I will have nowhere to house the fry and nobody to take them off my hands.

I am also expecting more fry from my new demekin stock so I will need to put just as much time and effort into raising them too, who I will likely favour over the hybrid babies as they will undoubtedly look much more attractive by comparison and I will be able to examine the traits expressed by them and how they compare to those of their parents.

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I just ran through these last couple of posts, a lot has happened in the last few days! :o

I am Betty's human. :teehee Happy to report she is doing just fine, has never dropsied (though was a little prickly once before from stress or otherwise).

Anyway! Just see where this takes you, and where your resources will allow. As Motherredcap said, Betty and my semi-lionhead spawned last year and while the lasting two produced neither tele eyes nor missing dorsals, they are both very precious to me. :wub: And the coloring on them is very neat too - one matte white fish, and another strange calico type with lots of blue.

You don't have to make any decisions now - they are still so small that you have time (but do cull as you see extreme deformities, i learned the hard way that it does not pay to wait and see). You said this before, and it's good practice. I'm raising some butterfly fry now and this is going easier than the first time - though i still don't feel like I've got it down pat!

Best of luck with both batches!

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I just ran through these last couple of posts, a lot has happened in the last few days! :o

I am Betty's human. :teehee Happy to report she is doing just fine, has never dropsied (though was a little prickly once before from stress or otherwise).

Anyway! Just see where this takes you, and where your resources will allow. As Motherredcap said, Betty and my semi-lionhead spawned last year and while the lasting two produced neither tele eyes nor missing dorsals, they are both very precious to me. :wub: And the coloring on them is very neat too - one matte white fish, and another strange calico type with lots of blue.

You don't have to make any decisions now - they are still so small that you have time (but do cull as you see extreme deformities, i learned the hard way that it does not pay to wait and see). You said this before, and it's good practice. I'm raising some butterfly fry now and this is going easier than the first time - though i still don't feel like I've got it down pat!

Best of luck with both batches!

That's great news! I think I will definitely be culling very heavily on both batches of fry and with any future batches from this crossbreed.

Its reassuring to hear that you had some success from your crossbreed! Would it be possible to maybe see some pictures of the babies? Do you have a thread dedicated to this spawn?

Thanks for the input as well! I need all the advice I can get! [emoji13]

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I have a thread that I update with pictures of my fish. This post is the most recent update, but you'll have to scroll a bit to get to Myrtle and Edna - those are the two from Betty and Blimp. :)

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--11th April 2015--

So it's time for another update! I've been thinking for the past few days about what I actually want to get out of my hobby. My original intentions were to create an aesthetically pleasing fish tank which -whilst acting as an attractive piece of furniture in my house - would serve as something that would help relieve stress which - at the time - was a substantial problem. Anyway, a few years down the line, began buying and selling fish as a way to help me financially support my constantly expanding hobby. Now, I have reached what I once thought was the pinnacle of the hobby - I hatched my very first batch of fry! It was a small batch of only 22 fry which quickly diminished to 13 and eventually (out of my own stupidity and carelessness) to 9.

I encountered numerous issues with my brine shrimp hatcheries causing my fry to be left without a supply of live food for a number of days. I think it is safe to say - whilst some of the fry remain alive - this batch was unsuccessful and the chances of a single baby - if any - will grow and develop to be a fish that will not only look nice and that I would be proud to house in my display tank, but a fish that would also be healthy and happy. Just looking into the tub of the remaining fry, I can just see deformity after deformity. Literally every fish has a deformity of some description, be it a crooked spine, an offset tail, a missing fin or a deformed skull. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I fear that none of these fish will live a happy, painless life. I know it would be interesting to see what kind of traits these hybrids express but it will come at the cost of their own wellbeing, and that is not a price I am willing to pay.

I am also expecting eggs from my new demekins any time now and I would much rather put all this time and effort into those as the finished product will likely be much more attractive and healthy.

For this reason, I have already disposed of the batch of eggs I hand spawned on Wednesday and plan to do the same with the three week old, deformed fry later on today. This will of course be done completely humanely and painlessly with the use of clove oil.

I would like to say a huge thank you to jennie (Betty's human) and motherredcap for their input and advice however I feel that this decision is in the best interests of both the fish and myself.

I will post some final pictures of the fry below.

I also plan to start a new thread dedicated to the new demekin fry as and when they are laid. Until they, farewell to you all and - as usual - good luck with your own fishy adventures!!

d34c63097b10d2bb0ba7390b70271ba3.jpg

59d77792dfe8321588dccac746b057cc.jpg

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--11th April 2015--

So it's time for another update! I've been thinking for the past few days about what I actually want to get out of my hobby. My original intentions were to create an aesthetically pleasing fish tank which -whilst acting as an attractive piece of furniture in my house - would serve as something that would help relieve stress which - at the time - was a substantial problem. Anyway, a few years down the line, began buying and selling fish as a way to help me financially support my constantly expanding hobby. Now, I have reached what I once thought was the pinnacle of the hobby - I hatched my very first batch of fry! It was a small batch of only 22 fry which quickly diminished to 13 and eventually (out of my own stupidity and carelessness) to 9.

I encountered numerous issues with my brine shrimp hatcheries causing my fry to be left without a supply of live food for a number of days. I think it is safe to say - whilst some of the fry remain alive - this batch was unsuccessful and the chances of a single baby - if any - will grow and develop to be a fish that will not only look nice and that I would be proud to house in my display tank, but a fish that would also be healthy and happy. Just looking into the tub of the remaining fry, I can just see deformity after deformity. Literally every fish has a deformity of some description, be it a crooked spine, an offset tail, a missing fin or a deformed skull. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I fear that none of these fish will live a happy, painless life. I know it would be interesting to see what kind of traits these hybrids express but it will come at the cost of their own wellbeing, and that is not a price I am willing to pay.

I am also expecting eggs from my new demekins any time now and I would much rather put all this time and effort into those as the finished product will likely be much more attractive and healthy.

For this reason, I have already disposed of the batch of eggs I hand spawned on Wednesday and plan to do the same with the three week old, deformed fry later on today. This will of course be done completely humanely and painlessly with the use of clove oil.

I would like to say a huge thank you to jennie (Betty's human) and motherredcap for their input and advice however I feel that this decision is in the best interests of both the fish and myself.

I will post some final pictures of the fry below.

I also plan to start a new thread dedicated to the new demekin fry as and when they are laid. Until they, farewell to you all and - as usual - good luck with your own fishy adventures!!

d34c63097b10d2bb0ba7390b70271ba3.jpg

59d77792dfe8321588dccac746b057cc.jpg

 

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I would love the fry but its your decision my spawning ended up with no fertile eggs :(

Edited by goldfishfanforever
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--11th April 2015--

So it's time for another update! I've been thinking for the past few days about what I actually want to get out of my hobby. My original intentions were to create an aesthetically pleasing fish tank which -whilst acting as an attractive piece of furniture in my house - would serve as something that would help relieve stress which - at the time - was a substantial problem. Anyway, a few years down the line, began buying and selling fish as a way to help me financially support my constantly expanding hobby. Now, I have reached what I once thought was the pinnacle of the hobby - I hatched my very first batch of fry! It was a small batch of only 22 fry which quickly diminished to 13 and eventually (out of my own stupidity and carelessness) to 9.

I encountered numerous issues with my brine shrimp hatcheries causing my fry to be left without a supply of live food for a number of days. I think it is safe to say - whilst some of the fry remain alive - this batch was unsuccessful and the chances of a single baby - if any - will grow and develop to be a fish that will not only look nice and that I would be proud to house in my display tank, but a fish that would also be healthy and happy. Just looking into the tub of the remaining fry, I can just see deformity after deformity. Literally every fish has a deformity of some description, be it a crooked spine, an offset tail, a missing fin or a deformed skull. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I fear that none of these fish will live a happy, painless life. I know it would be interesting to see what kind of traits these hybrids express but it will come at the cost of their own wellbeing, and that is not a price I am willing to pay.

I am also expecting eggs from my new demekins any time now and I would much rather put all this time and effort into those as the finished product will likely be much more attractive and healthy.

For this reason, I have already disposed of the batch of eggs I hand spawned on Wednesday and plan to do the same with the three week old, deformed fry later on today. This will of course be done completely humanely and painlessly with the use of clove oil.

I would like to say a huge thank you to jennie (Betty's human) and motherredcap for their input and advice however I feel that this decision is in the best interests of both the fish and myself.

I will post some final pictures of the fry below.

I also plan to start a new thread dedicated to the new demekin fry as and when they are laid. Until they, farewell to you all and - as usual - good luck with your own fishy adventures!!

d34c63097b10d2bb0ba7390b70271ba3.jpg

59d77792dfe8321588dccac746b057cc.jpg

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I would love the fry but its your decision my spawning ended up with no fertile eggs :(
I would've been more than happy enough to give you some of the babies had their condition of been been better. The deformities were extremely severe so culling would've been the most humane thing to do. [emoji20] [emoji20]
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--11th April 2015--

So it's time for another update! I've been thinking for the past few days about what I actually want to get out of my hobby. My original intentions were to create an aesthetically pleasing fish tank which -whilst acting as an attractive piece of furniture in my house - would serve as something that would help relieve stress which - at the time - was a substantial problem. Anyway, a few years down the line, began buying and selling fish as a way to help me financially support my constantly expanding hobby. Now, I have reached what I once thought was the pinnacle of the hobby - I hatched my very first batch of fry! It was a small batch of only 22 fry which quickly diminished to 13 and eventually (out of my own stupidity and carelessness) to 9.

I encountered numerous issues with my brine shrimp hatcheries causing my fry to be left without a supply of live food for a number of days. I think it is safe to say - whilst some of the fry remain alive - this batch was unsuccessful and the chances of a single baby - if any - will grow and develop to be a fish that will not only look nice and that I would be proud to house in my display tank, but a fish that would also be healthy and happy. Just looking into the tub of the remaining fry, I can just see deformity after deformity. Literally every fish has a deformity of some description, be it a crooked spine, an offset tail, a missing fin or a deformed skull. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I fear that none of these fish will live a happy, painless life. I know it would be interesting to see what kind of traits these hybrids express but it will come at the cost of their own wellbeing, and that is not a price I am willing to pay.

I am also expecting eggs from my new demekins any time now and I would much rather put all this time and effort into those as the finished product will likely be much more attractive and healthy.

For this reason, I have already disposed of the batch of eggs I hand spawned on Wednesday and plan to do the same with the three week old, deformed fry later on today. This will of course be done completely humanely and painlessly with the use of clove oil.

I would like to say a huge thank you to jennie (Betty's human) and motherredcap for their input and advice however I feel that this decision is in the best interests of both the fish and myself.

I will post some final pictures of the fry below.

I also plan to start a new thread dedicated to the new demekin fry as and when they are laid. Until they, farewell to you all and - as usual - good luck with your own fishy adventures!!

d34c63097b10d2bb0ba7390b70271ba3.jpg

59d77792dfe8321588dccac746b057cc.jpg

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I would love the fry but its your decision my spawning ended up with no fertile eggs :(
I would've been more than happy enough to give you some of the babies had their condition of been been better. The deformities were extremely severe so culling would've been the most humane thing to do. [emoji20] [emoji20]
Okay :( it's for the best :)
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