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Ryukin issues - Please help


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  • Regular Member

Hello everyone..

 

I'm experiencing something similar to what happened to me a couple of months ago when I lost my first two orandas

So I hope to do a prompt treatment before is too late..

 

 

I have this two guys in QT (w/ frequent WC) since Friday 13.. They are at .2% salt & prazi (2nd round)

They came from a (what I believe) reliable source.. Same place I got other 3 fish which just finished their QT period w/o any issues..

 

They were super energetic the first week of QT but everything changed a few days ago when the tricolor (red-white-black) started to look a little fatter.. My ignorance told me that perhaps he was under-fed before me or just growing

 

Yesterday they were both bottom sitting (not moving most of the day) & I noticed that tri-color spitted out the repashy gel food (but ate some 1mm pellets) which I found extrange because of repashy soft consistence..

 

Today I give them peas & bloodworms which they both spitted out at first but ate after a while..

 

I know (perhaps) they have flukes but the string-like white poop you can see on the red-white ryukin & the sudden "fatter belly", bottom sitting & collapsed fins in the tri-color really concerned me about an internal disease..

 

One other thing that concern me about the red-white is the white spots on the tail (fungal perhaps)

 

 

So what should I do..??

 

Should I start a metro-kana in both.. ??

just the tri-color (fatter one).. ??

Or perhaps I just over fed them and they just need to fast for a couple of days...????

 

Thank you so much!

 

 

 

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20150321_211605_zpssvvztsza.jpg

 

 

 

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hello, i am sorry that your fish are unwell. if you can please post a video of their behaviour, this will help us. whilst that is uploading, please answer the following questions.

 

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
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Sorry it took forever to answer.. We left early this morning and I just came home..

 

Truth to be told is that I freaked out this morning when I saw the tricolor being pushed around by the current & the red/white yawning heavly so I moved them immediately to a 5G bucket & added some kana & metro.. I perhaps shouldn't have done that, sorry..

 

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) <.25
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0.0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) between 5.0 & 10.0
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0.0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0.0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) < 5.0
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.4
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
    • * Water temperature? 72F
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20G quarantine uncycled
    • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Marineland Pinguin 350
    • * How often do you change the water and how much? Every other day 50-100%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, 100%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 ryukin, 2" (body)
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime (double dose)
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari red bag (1mm), Omega One, Hikari Lionhead, Repashy Soilent Green, Bloodworms, Braine Shrimp, 2-3 times a day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Salt @ .2@ & prazi (second round) on 20G tank - Metro & Kana in 5G bucket
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • Salt & prazi started on Saturday 14, Metro & Kana today Saturday 22
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? White spots on red/white tail, Swollen belly on male tricolor
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Extreme "yawning" on red/white, Bottom Sitting both, Spitting out both, Collapsed fins tricolor,

 

 

 

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It's hard to say if there is an infection or if they are bothered by the prazi.  Either way, since you started the metro and kana I'd leave it in.  I'd continue with prazi also per the schedule you started.  You do not need the salt with the kana and metro in there . . .

 

Where'd the big green poo come from?  :idont  Or I should say who . . . :rofl

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It's hard to say if there is an infection or if they are bothered by the prazi.  Either way, since you started the metro and kana I'd leave it in.  I'd continue with prazi also per the schedule you started.  You do not need the salt with the kana and metro in there . . .

 

Where'd the big green poo come from?  :idont  Or I should say who . . . :rofl

I'm trying to figure out who's pooping (if not both) these huge poops.. I just saw one (big one) in the 5G bucket..

 

If they're pooping.. Does it mean that there's NOT infection ??

 

Can it be bad for them using antibiotics for 14 days if they aren't sick ??

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Pooping doesn't mean no infection.  It just means they are pooping.  Although with a nice green poop like that, most likely whichever fish did that doesn't have an internal infection.

 

I don't know if bad is the word I'd use but you don't want to treat unless it's needed.  I wouldn't go taking amoxicillin for a sore throat unless I knew it was strep.  :idont

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:hi

  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.4
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4

You don't indicate you that buffer the ph with anything.

 

The ph levels between your tank and tap is quite a difference. If you are doing a 50% water change, the ph difference the goldfish experience is 0.5. That is at the edge of what we recommend. If you do a 50%+ water change the ph difference is > 0.5. So with a 100% water change, your goldfish experiences a ph difference of 1.0. That is not good for goldfish. You want to keep the ph difference to <=0.5.

 

Below my signature is information on using plain old baking soda to buffer the ph. I recommend using a fresh box of baking soda and only use that for your goldfish. That way you avoid any cross contamination.

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:hi

  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.4
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4

You don't indicate you that buffer the ph with anything.

 

The ph levels between your tank and tap is quite a difference. If you are doing a 50% water change, the ph difference the goldfish experience is 0.5. That is at the edge of what we recommend. If you do a 50%+ water change the ph difference is > 0.5. So with a 100% water change, your goldfish experiences a ph difference of 1.0. That is not good for goldfish. You want to keep the ph difference to <=0.5.

 

Below my signature is information on using plain old baking soda to buffer the ph. I recommend using a fresh box of baking soda and only use that for your goldfish. That way you avoid any cross contamination.

Hi.. & thank you.. I don't use baking soda

The water for WC's is being aged overnight with an airstone.. I always have 25G of aged water for my WC's..

 

If  for some reason I forget to age water I will only do 25% WC, which takes my PH to 8.0-8.2

(however, I haven't done that in a while)

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I'd rather continue treatment with an antibiotic than cut it short. Last thing you need is antibiotic resistance.

Like Lisa said, you wouldn't take something unless you knew what it was. If you can't check with a scope, continue treatment for the amount of days on the instructions.

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Pooping doesn't mean no infection.  It just means they are pooping.  Although with a nice green poop like that, most likely whichever fish did that doesn't have an internal infection.

 

I don't know if bad is the word I'd use but you don't want to treat unless it's needed.  I wouldn't go taking amoxicillin for a sore throat unless I knew it was strep.  :idont

Hi..

 

Question(s)..

 

I think I started medicating this guys (w/ metro + kana) on the 22nd out of fear (of previous experiences)

and I understand that Kana should stay for 12 days & metro for 14..

 

However.. I have dosed Kana & Metro 4 times now.. the 22nd in a "hospital 5G bucket" , the 23rd, 25th & 27th in their 20G QT tank..

 

The last thing I want is to create "meds resistance" on them but we also know that kana says in their package to do a "maximum of 3 doses"..

& metro says "until symptoms disappear"

 

So... If the fish is acting normal (& because most likely I made an accelerated decision), wouldn't be smart to stop medicating for another week ??

or by doing this I can risk creating "resistance" ??

 

I noticed their gills turning dark and also a dark spot on the tricolor's nose (which I cant pick up with the camera) so I don't know if this could be medicine related or perhaps ammonia burn (which I doubt because it's always <.25)

 

Let me know what you think.. Thx

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The gills themselves are turning dark or the gill plate/covering? Pic? :idont

I'd take both meds to a minimum of 10 days . . .

my bad, It is the gill covers..

 

The spots are darker today so I was able to get a picture..

What you see in this one is somehow similar to the other red/white fish

 

I just added another dose of metro/kana so if you think 10 days will be sufficient (to avoid future resistance) I will stop there..

 

 

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I've seen that as a reaction to meds.... At least it means the body is receiving them properly. I take it as physical indication of its presence. :idont

Edited by Chai
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