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Should I be concerned about this?


Reds12

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My husband and I were admiring some goldfish when out and about one day and my husband spotted this fish and just HAD to have him. (which pretty much meant I had to have him since our fish are mine really.)  We ended up coming home with Pumbaa.

 

He really is a lovely little fish - big, silly personality - always nibbling on some plant (he's not picky) and seriously never stops moving - he wiggles like an overly happy pug puppy when you use that too high squeaky voice they love so much.

 

Anyways - he has some things I just looked at like "faults" that we didn't really care too much about, but I've noticed comments on blogs and forums that now have me wondering if I should be watching him more closely in the future.  The two things that have me wondering are:

 

1.  the bubble under his chin.  He does get sand in it, but he's able to clear it out without difficulty - I've recently read he "WILL" get infection in it etc, so should I be watching for anything specific?

 

and 

 

2.  the one black eye/larger pupil.  This seems to have developed more after we brought him home.  I've read on multiple sites that the fish who are genetically predisposed to this are also predisposed to becoming "heavy" bottom sitters and only living a couple of years.  There doesn't seem to be substantiated information behind this, but it ran across enough different sites that it has me now worried for him.

 

I've included a couple of pics of him - including one of him being pissed off I'm next to the tank and not feeding him.  Its all I'm good for apparently ;)

 

ryu_zpswmuwvepf.jpg

Edited by Reds12
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How long have you had Pumbaa?  Is he still in quarantine?  

 

Please fill out this form as completely as possible. 

 

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank)
* Nitrite Level(Tank)
* Nitrate level(Tank)

 

* Ammonia Level(Tap)
* Nitrite Level(Tap)
* Nitrate level(Tap)
* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
* Water temperature?
* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
* How often do you change the water and how much?
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
* How many fish in the tank and their size?
* What kind of water additives or conditioners?
* What do you feed your fish and how often?
* Any new fish added to the tank?
* Any medications added to the tank?
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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:hi When you look at the eye yourself, does it look like the actual pupil is enlarged?  To me, it just looks like part of his tricolor black pigment.  I've seen many tricolor/calicos with one white eye and one black eye.  Also, Does the black pigment on the body seem to be receding with age?

 

As for the bubble, it looks clean and clear of pus, correct?  Has it grown at all since you got the fish?

 

Please go ahead and fill out the form that Shakaho provided above as this will help us to better advise you :)

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* Ammonia Level(Tank) = 1 (water treated with prime)

* Nitrite Level(Tank) = 0

* Nitrate level(Tank) = 0

 

* Ammonia Level(Tap) = 1
* Nitrite Level(Tap) = 0
* Nitrate level(Tap) = 0
* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2
* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master test kit
* Water temperature? 
* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55 gal
* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? two penguin 400 bio-wheel filters with denitrate, purigen, filter floss & sponge, one side (out of 4) has a charcoal filter the filters came with
* How often do you change the water and how much? once a week - 30%
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 4 days - 30%
* How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 juvenile goldfish - approx 1.5 -2" (we don't plan to keep all 5 in there)
* What kind of water additives or conditioners? seachem prime, flourish & excel
* What do you feed your fish and how often? mixture of sinking pellets, bloodworms, algea tabs and fresh fruits & veggies.
* Any new fish added to the tank? last one was added about a month ago but was from another tank we have (fish was not new to us)
* Any medications added to the tank? no
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. general cure, aquarium salt, kordon rid-ich
* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no
* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? no

 
 
Its really hard to tell if its his pupil or not since its so black.  When I look at him from the front the left side pupil does look like it might be larger than the right side, but it also looks like it might be a combination of that and black pigment around his eye.  I didn't think it looked like that when we got him, but from when I noticed it, it definitely hasn't changed.  The bubble on the other hand is clean and clear of pus, and has not grown.  He can literally suck it right back in - my concern at this point would be if it were to burst, but he has such a second nature about it I didn't think it was an issue.
 
His black pigment has receded a very tiny amount, but mostly no, it hasn't.  I've compared photos from december, january and now and minus a couple of small spots, his color is the same. It doesn't look to have changed at all from january until now.
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Wow!  That's a lot of ammonia in your tap.  It's also not disappearing in 4 days, so something is not right with your system. How long has your tank been running?  

 

Does the size you give for your fish include the tail?  Are they all fancies?  

 

Do you usually find ammonia in your tank water when you haven't just changed the water ?

 

Did you do any major cleaning of the tank/filters recently?

 

Please answer all of the questions above.

 

1ppm ammonia is at the limit that prime can inactivate, so please double the amount of prime you are using.

 

Also cut back at the amount of food you are giving until the ammonia goes away.  You can feed veggies, but cut out the bloodworms for the time being and reduce the amount of pellets.

 

Since you have ammonia in your tap water, you are wise to do smaller water changes, but you should be doing  two 30% changes a week.

 

Would you please do the following:

 

Retest your tank parameters (unless you tested just before you posted).

 

Do a 30% water change.  Test the parameters after the change, and report the before and after results.

 

Test and report again tomorrow.

 

The asymmetrical pupils are unusual but are unlikely to be a problem.

 

My guess on the bubble is that it is something like a hernia in the bottom of the mouth.  I've never seen it before.  It's probably OK, but if not, I don't see what you can do about it.  

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Wow!  That's a lot of ammonia in your tap.  It's also not disappearing in 4 days, so something is not right with your system. How long has your tank been running?  

 

My mistake - I was distracted this morning while typing and wrote "1" for ammonia, but its actually 0.25 for both tank and tap.  This tank has been running since about mid-november.

 

Does the size you give for your fish include the tail?  Are they all fancies?  

 

Taking a measuring tape, the largest, from tip of nose to tip of tail is 2.5" and the smallest 1.5", yes they are all fancies.

 

Do you usually find ammonia in your tank water when you haven't just changed the water ?

 

I don't usually test my water mid week, so I can't say for sure.  This testing was done the following morning from a water change, and then again just now.  Both times it was 0.25ppm.  Should I be using more Prime to treat my water?  I'm using about a cap and a 1/4 - which according to the bottle should treat 60-something gallons.

 

Did you do any major cleaning of the tank/filters recently?

 

No.  

 

 

Ammonia is always a source of discontent for me over here simply because of the amount of chloramines the city adds to the water.  So this is what I think I'm aware of, please correct me if I'm wrong.  Prime will take free ammonia, NH3 and convert it into NH4 which isn't really harmful to fish.  Because of this I will still get a reading for ammonia when testing my water using API master test kit, although it will be a reading of combined ammonia, correct?  Also, because our tap water is treated with chloramines, which is a chlorine/ammonia compound, when the Prime neutralizes the chlorine, it is breaking down the chloramine which in turn releases more ammonia into the water.  As long as its still under 1.2ppm that Seachem claims Prime treats I should be ok with the standard prime dose, but for safety sake, should I still increase my prime dosage?  I'm only giving 1x dosage.

 

The whole thing makes trusting the test results difficult for me - so as long as the reading is no higher than 0.25ppm, nitrates and nitrites are 0, pH is regular for the tank, and the fish are happy I try to not be so concerned about it.

 

I had planned to do a water change tonight when my little one is in bed, so I'll post those values later.  

 

The bubble I'm certain is a type of hernia - I'm more wondering what I would look out for in relation to infection.  I'm guessing he'd probably stop eating if he had an infection close to his mouth like that is likely.

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That's a relief!  I'd never heard of so much ammonia in tap water.  

 

You are a little bit confused.  Prime has nothing to do with the ratio of ammonia to ammonium.  That's a function of pH.  Prime does bind and inactivate ammonia, including the ammonia released from chloramine.  The inactivated ammonia will read in the test, can be oxidized by the biobugs, and will not harm the fish.  If your ammonia reading was 1.0 ppm, that would be too close to the limit of Prime's inactivation ability for comfort, which is why I suggested doubling.  Since that was a misprint, you are fine with the single dose of Prime.

 

What concerns me is that your ammonia reading is not zero.  In a healthy, cycled tank, the ammonia from your tap water would disappear within an hour or two.  I wonder if you are one of those people who has trouble reading the ammonia test.  Have you ever had a sample of water read zero ammonia?  If not, get some distilled water and test that.

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So interesting results...I tested some distilled water and still got a positive reading.  I had ended up buying a new test kit while I was there since this one was almost out of nitrate test bottles and I was down to just 2 test tubes anyways- exact same brand/kit.  I also bought a Seachem indicator that stays inside your tank.  When I put the indicator into the tank it gave me a zero reading, so I retested the tank water with the new test kit - and got a zero reading.

 

I don't know what to make of that other than I probably should start to occasionally calibrate my test kit from now on.  Its very frustrating, but probably my fault for just trusting it without question.

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That's a relief!  I'd never heard of so much ammonia in tap water.  

 

You are a little bit confused.  Prime has nothing to do with the ratio of ammonia to ammonium.  That's a function of pH.  Prime does bind and inactivate ammonia, including the ammonia released from chloramine.  The inactivated ammonia will read in the test, can be oxidized by the biobugs, and will not harm the fish.  If your ammonia reading was 1.0 ppm, that would be too close to the limit of Prime's inactivation ability for comfort, which is why I suggested doubling.  Since that was a misprint, you are fine with the single dose of Prime.

 

What concerns me is that your ammonia reading is not zero.  In a healthy, cycled tank, the ammonia from your tap water would disappear within an hour or two.  I wonder if you are one of those people who has trouble reading the ammonia test.  Have you ever had a sample of water read zero ammonia?  If not, get some distilled water and test that.

 

Just a note to let you know, I also live in San Diego as Reds12 does. You will not get a 0 ammonia reading straight out of the tap due to the extremely high level of chloramines in the water here. It depends on what time of the year you test it what reading you get, but it can be anywhere from 0.25 to 2.0 depending on where our water is coming from and whether it's re-cyc or not. Most people I know who keep fish here double dose prime. I would suggest that unless you are testing your tap water regularly, you may want to do this as a standard thing as well. Me personally, I use a combination of running all my water through a carbon filter and then dosing with water conditioner in order to get a result of 0 ppm before adding to my tank.

 

I'm not trying to disagree with shakaho, I just know the water here and what problems have arisen in my time keeping fish in it.  Not taking the ammonia level down before it goes in the tank, in the past, caused me a nightmare with nitrates that was nearly un-winnable. :)

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