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Opaque spot on tail of fantail goldfish


QandD

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Hi all,

 

I have a question about a spot on my fantail goldfish's tail. She also has some very mild fraying in two spots, but she's always moving so it's hard to get as HQ a picture as I would like. 

 

20150312_115459_zpsdlwlimzf.jpg

 

She does not always swim with her head down--I know that Erik Johnson says that this can be a sign of an internal bacterial infection. She just likes to dig.

I am concerned about what to do since normally I would dose a .3% salt solution; would a salt bath work instead? I also don't know if this is a bacterial or fungal issue. I am reluctant to dose Pimafix since she seemed to be pretty out of it when I have tried it in the past. My parameters aren't as stable as I would like--I would like to see more nitrates--so I am nervous about anything that would disrupt the biofilter.

Here are my parameters, etc:

 

    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0 after water change, .25 ppm this morning
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0 ppm
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0-5 ppm (orangeish hue to yellow)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.0
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Master Kit
      • * Water temperature? 74-76 F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 gallons, 5 years with biofilter disruptions
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aquaclear 70 (2 of them)
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? lately, daily or every other day due to trace ammonia and paranoia
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 50% this morning
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 fish around 3 inches body length
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, Flourish comprehensive
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? 2x daily; mixture of spirulina, recently New Life Spectrum pellets (previous Aqueon goldfish pellets), peas periodically, treats: brine shrimp about every 2 weeks
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Melafix for 3 days now
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Prazi about a month and a half ago (2 rounds as per bottle instructions); haven't salted in a long time due to plant addition; I have done antibiotics (Maracyn 1 and 2) for a columnaris infection one year ago; methalyne blue bath about 1.5 weeks ago
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? slight fraying and opaque spot
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? seems nervous and agitated since the death of her tank mate; startles easily but otherwise inquisitive and hungry

 

 

Thank you!

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Keep up with the extra water changes.  It is the best way to help a fish heal.  I really don't have anything to tell you about the spot on the fin.  Could be many things or nothing.  How long has it been there?  Did is start out tiny and grow? 

I know when I had my veiltail she always has splits and spots.  I was constantly trying to find ways to keep them gone or repair them.  It just seemed to be part of owning a veiltail.

Just a FYI in my planted tanks I have little to no nitrates.  The plants use it up.

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How are you managing the pH difference between your tap and tank when you do large water changes?

 

What kind of media do you have in the filter?

 

Can you describe in detain how you administered the 2 rounds of Prazi?

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I am... not managing the pH difference...? I'm not sure how I would do that. Should I do a chemical like "buff it up" in the fresh water? 

I administered the Prazi as directed by the bottle. So, two rounds poured in a place where there was a lot of water circulation and then did water changes when specified. 

I use the foam cube included with the Aquaclear and ceramic media, either Purigen or Fluval Biomax. I am thinking of adding floss to the media boxes, but I'm not sure if that would be a good idea. I also have sponges on the intake tubes since I have a sand substrate.

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Keep up with the extra water changes.  It is the best way to help a fish heal.  I really don't have anything to tell you about the spot on the fin.  Could be many things or nothing.  How long has it been there?  Did is start out tiny and grow? 

I know when I had my veiltail she always has splits and spots.  I was constantly trying to find ways to keep them gone or repair them.  It just seemed to be part of owning a veiltail.

Just a FYI in my planted tanks I have little to no nitrates.  The plants use it up.

 

Hidr, She has had it for a while, and only recently has her fin started to fray very slightly. I don't remember how it grew, to be honest. It seemed to appear as is. I also hadn't thought that she was a veil tail since she's just a regular old PetCo fantail, but her tail is indeed very long!

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I am... not managing the pH difference...? I'm not sure how I would do that. Should I do a chemical like "buff it up" in the fresh water? 

I administered the Prazi as directed by the bottle. So, two rounds poured in a place where there was a lot of water circulation and then did water changes when specified. 

I use the foam cube included with the Aquaclear and ceramic media, either Purigen or Fluval Biomax. I am thinking of adding floss to the media boxes, but I'm not sure if that would be a good idea. I also have sponges on the intake tubes since I have a sand substrate.

Instant shifts in the pH above 0.5, especially from higher to lower can be very stressful to the fish.  Many people use baking soda to manage this.  There is a link below my signature about this.

 

How many days did you leave the Prazi in the tank with no water changes?  How many days apart did you do the two rounds?  Was there Purigen in the filter when you did this?  Was there salt in the tank and if so, at what concentration?  These details determine the effectiveness of the Prazi treatment.  There is also a link regarding how to better administer Prazi below my signature.

 

I would recommend that you use the Fluval Biomax rather than the Purigen to stabilize you biological filter.  Never rinse it in tap water.  Only rinse it in a bucket of tank water from the fish's own tank.  A good media set up for Aquaclears is this:

 

Top - AC Biomax (loaded with extra)

Middle - Marineland Rite Size Blue filter pad (cut to fit)

Bottom - AC Sponge

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No she is not a veiltail.  She looks like a ribbon tail. But being that I love goldfish with long flowing tails I know they can be prone to problems.

I would add a piece of drift wood to the tank to lower its ph so that it is closer to the tap.  Missing with buffer is a pain and not very stable.  If you have shells in the tank I would remove it cause it tend to bring the ph up.

Edited by Hidr
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I am... not managing the pH difference...? I'm not sure how I would do that. Should I do a chemical like "buff it up" in the fresh water? 

I administered the Prazi as directed by the bottle. So, two rounds poured in a place where there was a lot of water circulation and then did water changes when specified. 

I use the foam cube included with the Aquaclear and ceramic media, either Purigen or Fluval Biomax. I am thinking of adding floss to the media boxes, but I'm not sure if that would be a good idea. I also have sponges on the intake tubes since I have a sand substrate.

Instant shifts in the pH above 0.5, especially from higher to lower can be very stressful to the fish.  Many people use baking soda to manage this.  There is a link below my signature about this.

 

How many days did you leave the Prazi in the tank with no water changes?  How many days apart did you do the two rounds?  Was there Purigen in the filter when you did this?  Was there salt in the tank and if so, at what concentration?  These details determine the effectiveness of the Prazi treatment.  There is also a link regarding how to better administer Prazi below my signature.

 

I would recommend that you use the Fluval Biomax rather than the Purigen to stabilize you biological filter.  Never rinse it in tap water.  Only rinse it in a bucket of tank water from the fish's own tank.  A good media set up for Aquaclears is this:

 

Top - AC Biomax (loaded with extra)

Middle - Marineland Rite Size Blue filter pad (cut to fit)

Bottom - AC Sponge

 

 

Hi Jared, in my new filter I just put in the Fluval Biomax as per your suggestion, and I put in a square of filter floss in each filter. I've also used some "Gold Buffer" into my 50% water change this morning and will look into getting driftwood as Hidr mentions. I used to have some driftwood, but it I got rid of it because I was worried that my other fish who had some swimming issues would cut herself on it. Do either of you recommend a brand of driftwood that has worked well for you? From looking around online, I know that hardwoods are best and it would have to be untreated (so hardware stores are out). I'd also prefer not to stain the tank with tannins.

I dosed 1.5 tsp of Prazi for my 29-gallon tank after doing a 40% water change. I waited 5 days, did a 25-30% water change, and dosed again. From your link it looks like I did this the wrong way. I can't salt the main tank due to my plants, but would doing the six-round Prazi schedule work without salt? Also, do you think it's safe to Prazi her again after having tried to do so 1.5 months ago?

 

No she is not a veiltail.  She looks like a ribbon tail. But being that I love goldfish with long flowing tails I know they can be prone to problems.

I would add a piece of drift wood to the tank to lower its ph so that it is closer to the tap.  Missing with buffer is a pain and not very stable.  If you have shells in the tank I would remove it cause it tend to bring the ph up.

 

Thank you for your suggestions!

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I am wondering if this piece of Malaysian driftwood from Amazon would work. The reviews are good: http://www.amazon.com/Estes-BC470789-Malaysian-Driftwood-Small/dp/B005ZJ6MQ2/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AKLGRCVFUH865. However, I am still a bit concerned about it cutting up my goldfish. Perhaps a small piece would be safe.

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I don't use driftwood to lower pH, but I know some people do.  As for wood as a decoration, shelter, etc., I like Zoo Med Mopani Wood which is general rounded off and doesn't rot as quickly as regular driftwood :)

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I don't use driftwood to lower pH, but I know some people do.  As for wood as a decoration, shelter, etc., I like Zoo Med Mopani Wood which is general rounded off and doesn't rot as quickly as regular driftwood :)

 

Thanks! I've just ordered a small one from Amazon. 

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Update: treating for flukes with low salt concentration and PraziPro.

 

I realize that there is a debate going on about the use of salt with PraziPro, but I have been going by Koko's suggested protocols.

I was just wondering if anyone had some answers about what to expect regarding goldfish behavior after treating with Prazi and salt. 

Duchess has been darting, lethargic, hiding, and now periodically bottom sitting since dosing her for the 2nd round a few hours ago. I'm worried about her, having lost a fish recently. Could it be possible that this may be an overdose of Prazi? Since I was dosing salt and think I raised the concentration to 1.5%, I double-dosed her with Prazi (according to bottle instructions), got nervous, and took about about 15% of the water to lower the concentration. I'm a nervous wreck, I know. 

The spot and light fraying on her tail has also persisted.

My parameters are fine: 0 ppm for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. pH is 7.8 and temperature 75 degrees. 

So to reiterate: what is a normal reaction to Prazi? Is this behavior just confirmation that she has flukes? I've tried searching Koko's and seen some comments about fish "sulking"--does this involve periodic bottom sitting?

Sorry for the anxious tone of this post!

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As far as your fish's symptoms go, I would call that normal. Lethargy, darting, sitting, and hiding are all symptoms that usually occur if a fish has not been treated before or really needs the treatment with Prazi. This is due to the flukes becoming irritated and/or dying on the fish. When they die, they come loose and leave a microwound behind. These microwounds are irritating to the fish and they then don't feel well because of it. But if it persists beyond the 2nd round, then you need to let the mod team know. 

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As far as your fish's symptoms go, I would call that normal. Lethargy, darting, sitting, and hiding are all symptoms that usually occur if a fish has not been treated before or really needs the treatment with Prazi. This is due to the flukes becoming irritated and/or dying on the fish. When they die, they come loose and leave a microwound behind. These microwounds are irritating to the fish and they then don't feel well because of it. But if it persists beyond the 2nd round, then you need to let the mod team know. 

 

Thanks, Chelsea--this eases my mind a bit. I'll be sure to re-post if by Round 3, Duchess is not improving. 

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As far as your fish's symptoms go, I would call that normal. Lethargy, darting, sitting, and hiding are all symptoms that usually occur if a fish has not been treated before or really needs the treatment with Prazi. This is due to the flukes becoming irritated and/or dying on the fish. When they die, they come loose and leave a microwound behind. These microwounds are irritating to the fish and they then don't feel well because of it. But if it persists beyond the 2nd round, then you need to let the mod team know. 

 

Thanks, Chelsea--this eases my mind a bit. I'll be sure to re-post if by Round 3, Duchess is not improving. 

 

Don't worry too much. These things take time. 

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Update: treating for flukes with low salt concentration and PraziPro.

 

I realize that there is a debate going on about the use of salt with PraziPro, but I have been going by Koko's suggested protocols.

I was just wondering if anyone had some answers about what to expect regarding goldfish behavior after treating with Prazi and salt. 

Duchess has been darting, lethargic, hiding, and now periodically bottom sitting since dosing her for the 2nd round a few hours ago. I'm worried about her, having lost a fish recently. Could it be possible that this may be an overdose of Prazi? Since I was dosing salt and think I raised the concentration to 1.5%, I double-dosed her with Prazi (according to bottle instructions), got nervous, and took about about 15% of the water to lower the concentration. I'm a nervous wreck, I know. 

The spot and light fraying on her tail has also persisted.

My parameters are fine: 0 ppm for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. pH is 7.8 and temperature 75 degrees. 

So to reiterate: what is a normal reaction to Prazi? Is this behavior just confirmation that she has flukes? I've tried searching Koko's and seen some comments about fish "sulking"--does this involve periodic bottom sitting?

Sorry for the anxious tone of this post!

Just curious...why is the salt at 0.15%  rather than at 0.1% ?  And where on the bottle does it say to double dose?

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Hi Jared,

 

I think the salt may be a little higher than .1% since I have a hard time gauging how much water I am taking out and putting in--I mostly go by the amount of water left in the tank to determine proportions. 

I'd read on Koko's that if you're dosing more than .1% you should increase the dosage of Prazi. However, if this is hurting her, I will run carbon and then redose or do WC's as needed, of course.

Otherwise: when I came home this morning D darted upon seeing me, and then sat on the bottom of the tank for a few minutes. She isn't totally acting like herself. However, after she calmed down a little and swam away from the bottom, she did want to eat and took some pre-soaked spirulina. She is now swimming around and trying to eat the wisteria in her tank, so yippee! I will try to monitor her throughout the day but I am quite nervous. 

Should I run carbon or do a water change, or should I just expect that she's going to be out of it periodically until the Prazi wears off? There is no change in her tail.  

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Hi, just another quick question. My fish is still acting lethargic and freaks out periodically, darting around the tank, and today I saw some flashing. She is in the midst of PraziPro round 2 with 1% salt solution; she is scheduled for a water change on Sunday with more PraziPro on Monday. She is also doing some mild "backward swimming."

I was wondering if she (and her tail) would benefit from a salt dip, or would that stress her out even more? I've also ordered some medicines (Kanaplex and MetroMeds) in case she has something worse than flukes.

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Hi, I wanted to update you all since I could use some advice.

I just finished the 2nd round of Prazi, and my fish is still darting and now, troublingly, periodically bottom-sitting. When she sits, though, her dorsal fin isn't clamped. Her tail still has its spot and looks tatty. My water parameters are all steady and good, but I'm worried that she might have something other than flukes. I have live plants so I have been keeping her salt concentration at .1%

Based on this previous case I read about (http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/119449-advice-needed-finrot-to-medicate-or-not-to-medicate/page-2?hl=darting), does anyone think I should salt dip her tomorrow when I start Round 3? Should I feed her medicated food? Should she have antibiotics? 

I'm a bit at a loss here.

Thanks for any and all help!

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:hi

 

The flashing and bottom sitting are normal symptoms during Prazi, especially during round 2.  As the Flukes die, they leave tiny tears in the skin that irritate the fish.  That is why we recommend 0.1% salt to help these microscopic wounds heal and resist infection.  

 

I think it is good that you ordered the Kanaplex.  I am wondering, though, if you meant that you also ordered Metroplex rather than Metro Meds which are no longer available?

 

Antibiotics such as these are good to have on hand in case a secondary bacterial infection sets in, but they will not eliminate parasites.  If we determine that there is a parasite other than Flukes in your system, it may be necessary to remove the plants to a separate container and raise the salt concentration in the tank to 0.3%.

 

A salt dip will not solve the parasite problem in the main tank, though it may help strip the slime spot off the tail.  At this time, I actually don't recommend it.

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Hi Jared, 

Thank you for getting back to me! This is all very good to know about Prazi; I think I am just very nervous after losing a fish recently. 

I ordered Metroplex as well, and this is the medicated food I am referring to: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151311107247?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I will go ahead and start round 3 without any salt dipping. 

Thank you again for entertaining all my anxious questions--I'm sorry to be a nuisance. 

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Update: my fish is in the middle of Prazi round 4 at a .1% salt solution, and she is still acting strangely. This morning I noticed that she must have been flashing in the night, since she is now missing 5-6 scales total. It's a little pink near the affected area but not bleeding. 

 

I'm wondering if it could be something other than flukes? She is clearly irritated: darting, hiding, stationary swimming and then spazzing across the tank, but I had thought by now that the Prazi should be alleviating symptoms. Could it be some other kind of parasite? 

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