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Sheesh. Flukes or something else?


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  • Helper

Pristine water, repeated prazi treatments, longtime quarantine and observation.

This Goldie has persistent dark red seams under his mouth (even my nacreous pearlscale has paler flesh), constantly yawns and swims in little backwars bursts, and no amount of prazi seems to help. I was sure it was flukes, but his gills still seems enflamed and even the base of his fins seems unusually pink and irritated.

Seemed like a heavy fluke infestation, but normal treatments aren't touching it.

Tankmate displays no such symptoms.

Help?

Lemme hunt down the form to fill out.....

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The form is in the link under my signature.  Can you get us some close up pics of the affected area?

 

It is possible that there was a fluke and bacterial problem concurrently and while the Prazi may have eliminated the flukes, it did not cure the bacterial infection.

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  • Helper

Sorry, got stuck on the phone in the middle of the form. Yes, I did originally do a salt/prazi combo cycle when I bought him 18 months ago.

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Ugh. Right when I was getting ready to sit down and finish the D&D form I discovered my perfectly healthy pearlscale was dead out of the blue, and the fantails symptoms seem much less. What is going on with my fish?!

The original salt was scaled up to .03 as per the normal schedule for new fish quarantine. I followed the directions pretty much to the letter that I found on the forum.

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  • Helper

Ugh, never mind. No randomness with the death - even though I was so careful with media transfer I ended up with a huge cycle bump with the new filter. I'm guessing the pearlie was just very sensitive to it. What a dumb move, I obviously should have let the two run in parallel longer than I did, or transferred more media, or *something*.

Off to do a complete water change and then every other day changes until the filter calms back down and the cycle bump is passed. And then I will work on whatever random parasite issue has been bugging my fantail on and off for the last eighteen months.

* Ammonia Level(Tank) - 1.0 (it was 0 on Monday at my water change :( )

* Nitrite Level(Tank) - .5

* Nitrate level(Tank) - 10 ppm

* Ammonia Level(Tap) - 0

* Nitrite Level(Tap) - 0

* Nitrate level(Tap) - 0

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 7.0

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 7.0

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API

* Water temperature? 72 degrees

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20 gallons, 18 months or so as a longer term quarantine solution until new tank is built

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? SunSun 304b, ungraded from an undersized aqueon HOB (which apparently caused a cycle bump and killed my pearlscale)

* How often do you change the water and how much? 2x weekly, 95% changes

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Monday night, 95%

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 small goldfish, about 2.5 inch bodies

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, wonder shells

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Paradigm fish food, Hikari, NLS Betta Pellets as a treat

* Any new fish added to the tank? Nope

* Any medications added to the tank? None

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Normal prazi and salt when they arrived, plus prazi every four months or so since then, as fantail always seems to be fighting some gill irritation on and off

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Red gills, flashing, yawning, backwards swimming, head down swimming. This has happened every month or two since I owned him and seems unrelated to the filter swap disaster

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Nope

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Yes, I always do two rounds just in case. I think fantailfan was the one who I got that advice from awhile back and it seemed like a no brainer.

I just ordered another bottle of prazi, so if I see symptoms pop back up with the fantail I can try again. When I examined his gills two days ago I saw nothing, just redness. But in hindsight I'd bet money that was from the cycle bump of doom.

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Yes, I always do two rounds just in case. I think fantailfan was the one who I got that advice from awhile back and it seemed like a no brainer.

I just ordered another bottle of prazi, so if I see symptoms pop back up with the fantail I can try again. When I examined his gills two days ago I saw nothing, just redness. But in hindsight I'd bet money that was from the cycle bump of doom.

In the meantime, you could try a salt dip.

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Hey Jared, sorry for the radio silence. I've been having human health problems in addition to the aquatic health problems here!

Prazipro just arrived in the mail today. Water changes have the tank parameters under control. Current situation/symptom is the occasional yawning and slightly enflamed gills. Less than when the ammonia was through the roof the other day, though. He also has some slight listing to one side but that has been going on since he arrived. His tail is slightly malformed on one side and I always believed that to be the cause, but maybe it is a symptom?

No flashing, still eating and swimming well.

Is a salt dip still what you'd recommend? I see no visible evidence of parasites.

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Just thought of another weird, potential symptom. This fish has pectoral fins that always look irritated and red at the base of them, slightly bloodshot. The caudal and dorsal fins are perfect, no streaking or anything like that. But his pectorals always look irritated and slightly pink, along with all the yawning.

Strange, right?

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It does seem like flukes, so I would try the Prazipro on all of the fish.  For the fish with the enflamed gills, I would consider treating with Metroplex and Kanaplex in case you are also dealing with a bacterial gill and/or internal infection.  These can occur when flukes have damaged the tissue. 

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I have metromeds and kanaplex on hand as well as the prazi, so I can definitrly do both. This is my only remaining goldfish since the pearlscale bit the big one.

The bloodshot, irritated look of his pectorals has worsened, and his anal fin is also becoming slightly pink at the base. Still yawning, but no clamped fins. Maybe slight flashing and flicking. He definitely seems irritated, if not itchy.

What schedule do you recommend I do the prazi on?

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Did a 95% water change, turned off the UV, went ahead and dosed the prazi this evening (3/18/2015).

Awaiting schedule recommendations and clarification on whether I should use up the remaining Metromeds (before they expire) or if a water borne medicine like the Kanaplex is a better idea. Thank you for your ongoing help and patience with my slow responses right now!

Edited by Arctic Mama
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I would do four (5-day) rounds of Prazi along with Kanaplex but no salt.  No Metro Meds, either.  We will adjust to 6-day rounds while using the Kanaplex as it syncs better.  The Kanaplex will be done after about two rounds of Prazi.  This tank is cycled, correct?  No carbon in the filter, correct?  Here  is the schedule:

 

3/18 - Dosed Prazi 

 

Day 1 (3/19) - Add Kanaplex per bottle directions (2 measures per 10 gallons, I believe).

Day 2 (3/20) - Test for ammonia and nitrite, add Prime if necessary.

Day 3 (3/21) - 100% wc, add Prazi and Kanaplex

Day 4 (3/22) - Test for ammonia and nitrite, add Prime if necessary.

Day 5 (3/23) - 100% wc, add Kanaplex but no Prazi

Day 6 (3/24) - Test for ammonia and nitrite, add Prime if necessary, let's touch base.

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I would do four (5-day) rounds of Prazi along with Kanaplex but no salt.  No Metro Meds, either.  We will adjust to 6-day rounds while using the Kanaplex as it syncs better.  The Kanaplex will be done after about two rounds of Prazi.  This tank is cycled, correct?  No carbon in the filter, correct?  Here  is the schedule:

 

3/18 - Dosed Prazi 

 

Day 1 (3/19) - Add Kanaplex per bottle directions (2 measures per 10 gallons, I believe).

Day 2 (3/20) - Test for ammonia and nitrite, add Prime if necessary.

Day 3 (3/21) - 100% wc, add Prazi and Kanaplex

Day 4 (3/22) - Test for ammonia and nitrite, add Prime if necessary.

Day 5 (3/23) - 100% wc, add Kanaplex but no Prazi

Day 6 (3/24) - Test for ammonia and nitrite, add Prime if necessary, let's touch base.

Tanks was fully cycled but had a bump when I switched to a new, much bigger filter. It is fully under control with WCs now, however. No carbon, UV is off.

I'll begin the schedule and check back in on the 24th. Thanks!

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Just did the 100% water change, prazi, and kanaplex. I'm noticing more flicking right now, immediately after the change. He seemed to be struggling right before the water change, too, just seeming a big lethargic and his tail looked a little bloodshot at the base. I'm hoping the new medicine dose and water change will help, but the twitching/flicking/flashing motion is a bit alarming.

He is eating fine, fortunatrly, and his poop looks normal. Under his mouth/on his chin still looks fairly red.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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He is still eating and swimming around, though his coloration is pale and he's still flicking and looking a big irritated. Base of fins still all looked irritated and his pectorals are still bloodshot. Underneath gills still seems quite red.

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  • Helper

Okay, life went insane again eith a houseguest but the medication course is completed. Just today I noticed he is looking pale and respiration slowly, but doesn't seem to be flicking or darting. His fins look slightly less red and irritated. I'm changing the water tonight, doing just prime, and then I think I'll do another prazi round to catch any newly hatched flukes.

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