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Possible Issue (?)


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Greetings everyone,

 

I have an 128lt tank housing 2 Shubunkin, 1 Oranda, 1 Black Moor and 1 Chinese Algae Eater. The tank also contains (apart from a variety of decorations) 2 Egeria Densa plants.

 

I've seen my fish from time to time gulping air from the surface of the aquarium. I've read this is not a good sign, so I ran some tests. Turns out everything was pretty normal:

 

pH: 6.8

Cl: 0

Carbonate Hardness: 4

Total Hardness: 7 - 10

Nitrites: 0

Nitrates: around 25 (some times slightly lower)

 

I've ran these tests on various times throughout the day, including before and after feeding times, and they are pretty constant (except the Total Hardness).

 

Measurements being OK relieved me and I thought it was rather an odd behaviour than a sign of something going wrong, until last night my Oranda started (or rather stopped) staying still near the surface and just "float" not even moving its fins. That got me a little worried, s/he hadn't done it before and combined with some black marks s/he had developed on his tail and anal fins, got me a little worried again.

 

I went ot bed leaving him/her on its floating new habit and when I came home from work today, I saw him/her lying still on the bottom of the tank. Got me extra worried, but as soon as s/he saw me, it started being joyful and seemed happy again.

 

This fish is like a dog, being playful and welcoming me each day when I get home, rushes to show me his/her joy of being at home again.

 

So, I would like to ask if any of you guys has any ideas on the matter. You see I'm really new to fish keeping. Only have my fish like a month now, and although I spend much of my free time reading, learning and caring for them, I consider myself an absolute n00b on the hobby ;)

 

Any thoughts are welcome and any help saving, if endangered, my little buddy greatly appreciated too. You see I don't treat fish as disposable and I don't think any of you guys does either, so I want to save him/her...

 

Thanks for your time in advance!

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  • Regular Member

Hi there, Stratos. Is there a way you could fill this form out completely for the Mod team, please? It would help out greatly, since it keeps everything organized so that it can be easily referenced.

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
Edited by ChelseaM
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  • Regular Member

Hi there, thanks for your reply!

 

Here is the information you required:

 

Tank:

  • Nitrite: 0
  • Nitrate: 25
  • pH: 6.8
  • GH: 7 - 10 (nearly all tests are showing 7)
  • KH: 4
  • Cl: 0

Tap:

  • Nitrite: 0
  • Nitrate: 0
  • pH: 6.6
  • GH: >14
  • KH: 10
  • Cl: 0.6

At the moment I have no way to test the Ammonia levels.

 

For the rest:

  • Band of test strips: eSHa AQUA quick TEST
  • Water Temperature: 18.5 C
  • Tank size: 128lt (33.81 galons). It has been running like a month now, cycled with the fish added after cycling it.
  • Tank Manufacturer: Sun Sun
  • Tank Model: HR-800B
  • Filter: SQJ-700G, 8W, was included with the tank by the manufacturer (Sun Sun)
  • Water changes: every week 50 - 60% of tank water and cleaning the substrate with a gravel. Every other day 20% change.
  • Last water change was Sunday 01/03, was 60% change
  • 5 fish in the tank, 2 Shubunkin (3.5 and 5 cm long), 1 Oranda (3.5 cm long), 1 Black Moor (1.5 cm long) and 1 Chinese Algae Eater (2 cm long). Also in the tank: 2 Egeria Densa (Elodea) plants around 55cm tall each.
  • Water Conditioners: Sera Aquatan
  • Feeding: protein flakes every other day, once a day and vegetable flakes every other day, once a day
  • New fish added to the tank: No
  • Medications used: No
  • Medication History: No medication has ever been used yet

 

  • Unusual signs on fish: The Oranda that appears indolent had shown some black spots on its tail bottom end and on his/her anal fins. Other than that, all are the usual on the Oranda and on the rest as well.

 

  • Unusual behaviour: The Oranda I'm concerned about is acting indolent, not swimming all the time as it used to and as the others do, but rather stands still near the surface (its dorsal fin almost out of water) and just "floats" moving nothing, not even its fins. Today I found it sitting at the bottom of the tank, on the substrate when I came home from work. The past week the Oranda was also gulping air from the surface at a rate of 1-2 gulps per hour. The thing is s/he is being indolent only when I get out of the room, or move on the side of the tank (s/he is standing on the centre and front all the time) but when s/he sees me s/he goes all happy and lively again. He shows a "welcome home" behaviour when I return from work too, much like a dog.

I hope the information I have provided helps determine the cause of this behaviour. If you think that the Ammonia readings are important too, I' ll get an Ammonia test kit too, or if you think you need me to provide any more information, please do tell me.

 

Thanks again for your time.

Edited by stratos.giagkiozis
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Hi Stratos, to rule out water quality issues - you have a number of fish in the tank - I would put your ill fish in a separate container, maybe one of those clear plastic storage containers of around 40 litres and see if you get some improvement.  The mods might be helped by some pictures as well. :)

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The problem is that at the moment I have no clue if s/he is ill or not. S/he has no external signs of disease, fungal infection, parasites or whatsoever... s/he just goes in a certain place, in the mid front of my tank n stands still... s/he is always playful and acting perfectly normal when sees me around and goes again still when i sit in a place that can't see me.

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It can be difficult in those circumstances. When my fish showed behaviour a bit similar to yours - staring at the corner until I really made my presence know - one of the moderators suggested internal parasites. I treated for flukes and made sure that the water parameters were spotless. Your fish is showing some signs of ammonia (the black fins) and an easy test to see if it is suffering from water quality degradations would be to put it in a separate container of spotless water for a day or two. 

 

Water quality can sneak up on you in a full tank.  Everything is going fine until one day, it just isn't.

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Even if ammonia is or isn't a problem, I would treat all of the fish for flukes. This is because all goldfish have flukes to some degree. This may appear to be doing harm at first, since the flukes will be dying and thus irritating the fish, but in the end the fish will feel much better because of the flukes being removed. Fluke treatments are something that should be done regularly, just like you would give a worm treatment to a dog or cat every few months. Coincidentally, the Flukes Treatments are the same medicine as a dewormer.

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If Hikari PraziPro is available to you, please order that. Any other medications that you need, the moderating team will instruct you on. We still haven't determined what is wrong, and cannot treat until we know what the problem is.

Edited by ChelseaM
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Well since it's used as a precaution too, I suppose I should get some and see... Today I examined them before I go to work and I saw the little black spots gone and was swimming before I entered the room. In fact the tail spot had turned orange, which is its basic colour.

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That is really indicative of an ammonia spike.  The black is healing from an ammonia burn (it occurs after the poisoning is healing).  Once the healing is complete, the tissue returns to its normal colour. This is good news for the moment, but it indicates that ammonia levels have risen dramatically in the tank at some moment in the past. We generally recommend large water changes, up to 90% per week.  You have a lot of fish in the tank, and long-term, you will need lots of water changes to prevent more ammonia/nitrite issues.  

 

I would suggest either a larger tank, or splitting the fish up into separate tanks to prevent future incidents. 

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Hey everyone, I bought an Ammonia test today and I measured for Ammonia and it appears that the levels are a bit lower than 0.25mg/L. Is that something to worry about?  A couple of small black spots on fins appeared again. I also got some medication for flukes (manufacturer: Waterlife, drastic ingredient: Sterazin, was the only one available in my neighborhood pet store). Shall I start administering it immediately?

Edited by stratos.giagkiozis
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There you go:DSC01326_zps5kpwshij.jpg

 

here you can see the previous black spot turned orange now and a bit of the black spot appeared now, on its pectoral fin.

 

DSC01330_zpsbofw6v3x.jpg

 

here the black spot on the pectoral fin shows a little more. Sorry if the angles aren't the best, but although s/he's an Oranda, it's moving too fast for my hand camera to capture it, ha ha ha :) In case you need a better shot I can try again.

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Update on my little buddy: I noticed a white spot on his wen looking like the pics I've seen around with fish suffering from flukes on Wednesday night. So I started the medication right away, lest s/he is in more danger and contaminates the rest. Gave second dose on Friday, and tomorrow is the third out of five. The white spot is still there and now he has on the other side of his wen too. Yesterday and today he does some bottom sitting too.

I also noticed a little tear on his tail fin. I'm really concerned and worried...

You guys think that's part of the medical treatment or a natural stage of healing??

Chemical readings are in normal levels...

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A suggestion. Goldfish do well in high PH and hard water- and are more susceptible to bacterial issues in more acidic conditions. After you get your other issues with stocking figured out in the long term -work on getting you KH between 70-120ppm and GH 200-400. Adjusting your KH up will in turn increase your PH, a Ph above 7.5 to 8.2 is preferred- a ph of 6.8 is too acidic for goldfish. I use African Cichlid salt mix and buffer for my goldfish tank- and it's just fine. For increasing KH you can simply add sodium bicarbonate plain old baking soda. Do it slow 1/8tsp per 10 gallons till PH is attained.

Symptoms of low pH or KH levels may include; gasping at the surface, reddened gills, bulging eye, pop eye, bleeding from eye indicating a pH crash.

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I'm afraid I can't post any photos of my Oranda having the spots, cause at the moment, they are gone (hope for good...). But they looked like this:

Picture_001%5B1%5D%20GF.jpg

 

Only more "whiteish" and were not on top, rather on the side, first on left side only, then on both and now gone.

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