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How do you know when it's time to let go?


fup10k

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My ryukin Suna has always gotten sick really easily. A few months after I got him, he developed a bump on his head, along his side, and on one of his fins. It has never moved, or gotten better, or grown or anything. It looks like lymphocystis. He has been treated for fungal infections many times with no change in that. It's been over a year since he grew them. 

 

He's also always been a little floaty. Around january 14-16th, he started to float up to the top of the tank and not float back down immediately, just resting there. I fed him peas exclusively afterwards. About 2-3 weeks after, he started bottom sitting which is when i went to goldfishkeepers and asked around for treatment advice. I ordered up some medicated food (which is STILL lost in shipping) and quarantined him in a smaller tub with salt to see if maybe it was water pressure affecting his swimming. it wasn't. He stopped bottom sitting after a while and exclusively floated up on the top. He started losing his appetite around 2 weeks ago. 

 

On the 16th, I put him into a 20gal tub and treated him with maracyn II. (there is no filter, it is changed 50% every day with extra medicine added to make up for the water change)

 

He pooped once the entire time (it was just regular, green poop from peas) and has not eaten since then. It has been over 5 days now and he has not pooped, and he has stopped swimming almost entirely. 

 

He does not even pay attention to food anymore, he doesn't budge at all.

The only time he moves is when he floats over one of the airstones (and moves away from the bubbles) and when i stick my hand in the tank.

He swims away when he sees me, and I think it's because he's afraid i'm going to move him again or touch him or something (he CANNOT stand being touched, he has always hated it. It doesn't matter what it is that's touching him, he flips out and swims away). 

 

I can't hand feed him because he swims away and he's completely uninterested in food anymore. He's been floating up for so long that he's starting to develop sores on the bottom of his stomach, and one of his bottom fins is completely unusable to him now because he floated up even higher overnight and it is bright red with sores. 

 

I don't know what to do anymore, he can't turn himself over at all at this point and I'm sure he's in a lot of pain from moisture loss on his stomach (I moved a little bit of water over it and he tried to swim away and jerked around in the water from the water touching them. I know they hurt)

What can I even do to help him? All day i've just been thinking that euthanasia is the only option I have for him since he won't eat anything at all, and he's just so lifeless.

I don't know what to do. I never thought I would even be in a position like this. He's only 2-3 years old, but I can't stand the thought of him suffering. If anyone has any idea of anything i could try to treat him with, I would be so grateful to know.  ...If it's as hopeless as I'm seeing it as now, please tell me so I can at least give him a painless death rather than dying of illness. 

 

 

(Water quality in his tank, while he was in there, was always 0 ammonia 0 nitrite, 0-25 nitrate. In the 20gal tub, all readings have been 0. PH is 7.5 like always. temperature is 68F and has always been. His normal tank is a 29g aqueon. He is about 8" with tail included, 5-6" body. His only tankmate is an oranda that is about 3" who is showing no symptoms of illness or stress.)

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(I'm not sure where the edit option is)

 

UPDATE: I'm in the process of doing a 100% water change right now to get rid of the maracyn and currently he's being much more active while waiting in a 5g bucket. He still can not submerge himself but he's at least attempting to move around now, which is better than he has been the past few days. (Seriously. This morning i would have thought he was dead if i didn't see his gill movements)

I will put vaseline on his sores before i put him back into the tub of water.... maybe this is a sign that there's more hope than I was anticipating. 

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Hello :hi I'm sorry to hear about your fish.

 

Can you post some pictures or a video of your fish and your tank? You can upload pics on something like photobucket then post a link here. You can upload a video to youtube and post a link here.

 

Also please fill out the D&D form below. I know you provided some of the information above (thank you for that!), but the moderators are use to this intake form and can easily find information in it instead of reading through paragraphs. You can cut and paste your information into this form. Thank you!

 

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
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Hello :hi I'm sorry to hear about your fish.

 

Can you post some pictures or a video of your fish and your tank? You can upload pics on something like photobucket then post a link here. You can upload a video to youtube and post a link here.

 

Also please fill out the D&D form below. I know you provided some of the information above (thank you for that!), but the moderators are use to this intake form and can easily find information in it instead of reading through paragraphs. You can cut and paste your information into this form. Thank you!

 

 

 

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0 (he is in a tub that just got a water change)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.5
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.5
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? It's the drops test from api i think? I don't have the package information anymore lol
      • * Water temperature? 68F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? this is a 20g tub, it is filled to 10g right now, and it does not have a filter. his tank is 30g and has been set up for a year and a half
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? penguine power filter, the one with 2 bio wheels, up to 70G
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? 50% daily in the tub, weekly in the tank
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? today, 100%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? there is one fish in the tank itself and he is a 3" oranda. Suna is not in the tank right now, he is in the 20g tub alone
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime, double dosed.
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? they've been on peas for a month now
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? 
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. :  Pimafix 3 times for "fungus" that was not fungus. Salt 1% 3x, Maracyn 2 to the quarantine container completely taken out now. 
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? He has sores on his underbelly and fin from being exposed to the air. I put vaseline on them and he is now able to move his fin again, his sore does not seem to irritate him now. 
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He CAN NOT sink at all. 

Another update: I was able to hand feed him!!!! I have been trying ALL WEEK. Just a bit ago i put vaseline on his sores to help him and he wiggled around at first, but then calmed down and let me hold him underwater to put the vaseline on. He doesn't seem to be as wary of me or my hand now, and I was able to push food by his mouth and once he finally realized it was FOOD I was giving, he ate some.

I fed him 4 squished peas. 

 

Edited by fup10k
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So i wasn't able to get a video because my phone can't upload it, but here's some pictures

IMAG0153_1.jpg

The original tank (Please excuse the algae wall) the other goldfish is in there

 

IMAG0157_2.jpg

The best picture i could get of his poop. He just made those, they're Tan/yellowish like the floor tile so it's hard to see

 

IMAG0155_2.jpg

IMAG0154_2.jpg

some of his sores

 

IMAG0158.jpg

A close up

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Have you ONLY been trying to feed/feeding peas?

Also never excuse an algae wall! Many people WANT those!

Im trying to regrow mine for my tropical tank after accidentally scratching it up. :teehee

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Have you ONLY been trying to feed/feeding peas?

Also never excuse an algae wall! Many people WANT those!

Im trying to regrow mine for my tropical tank after accidentally scratching it up. :teehee

 

I have been feeding ALMOST exclusively peas the past month, other than some frozen algae/spirulina tablets. When attempting to get him to eat, i was using those, tiny little algae pellets, his old omega 1 goldfish food...etc.  he did eat peas when i did the water change. 

 

haha  i tried SO HARD to scrub it off as you can see.... it didn't work. now I have to wait for it to grow back all the way while it's patchy and ugly. 

Edited by fup10k
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:hi

 

So sorry to see your fish isn't doing well.  I'll be honest.  Once a fish is flipped like that, especially when it's been a while, it usually doesn't flip back over and lead a normal life.  It could be a swim bladder issue, or and internal infection, or the fish could be eggbound (if it's female and I can't tell . . . ).  In any case, if you'd like to treat it and see if you get any improvement, we can suggest some meds to try. 

 

Also if you haven't tried feeding frozen bloodworms that might be something enticing to feed.  :D

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:hi

 

So sorry to see your fish isn't doing well.  I'll be honest.  Once a fish is flipped like that, especially when it's been a while, it usually doesn't flip back over and lead a normal life.  It could be a swim bladder issue, or and internal infection, or the fish could be eggbound (if it's female and I can't tell . . . ).  In any case, if you'd like to treat it and see if you get any improvement, we can suggest some meds to try. 

 

Also if you haven't tried feeding frozen bloodworms that might be something enticing to feed.  :D

 

Someone recommended that to me as well, I'll pick up some frozen bloodworms. 

I think suna is male, but i'm not the best at judging. 

 

I would really like to try some medications since i've only really tried maracyn and salt. Now that he's eating i think it makes things much easier for treatment. 

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bumping this up again

 

As for goldfish harnesses, I heard that they're bad for the scales. However, would rubbing vaseline on tubing help with it not accidentally rubbing off the slimecoat? 

I don't want to have to euthanize him :/ 

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Honestly, all you can do is control food with something like this. Frozen Bloodworms are a good thing, like Lisa suggested. Gel foods tend to take stress of the swim bladder as well. 

 

You could try medicating, but I am not sure it would help anything. The Mod Team can be a better judge of that than I can.

Edited by ChelseaM
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Sorry it has taken a while to get back to you, but we, the moderator team, have been discussing this thread behind the scenes.

 

Although we do not believe that the meds will help, there is always a small chance that the swim bladder may be affected by an infection. The lumps, if not tumors, may also be an infection. Although more symptoms would have probably presented sooner if the lumps were an infection since they have been around for over a year. Therefore if you want to try antibiotics as a last option (which we are now at), we're more than happy to help guide you through it :)

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Sorry it has taken a while to get back to you, but we, the moderator team, have been discussing this thread behind the scenes.

 

Although we do not believe that the meds will help, there is always a small chance that the swim bladder may be affected by an infection. The lumps, if not tumors, may also be an infection. Although more symptoms would have probably presented sooner if the lumps were an infection since they have been around for over a year. Therefore if you want to try antibiotics as a last option (which we are now at), we're more than happy to help guide you through it :)

I would like to try! I'd try anything. 

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You'll want to get the antibiotics kanamycin and metronidazole. You can get these meds in these Seachem products: Kanaplex and Metroplex. You can purchase these online or at a local fish store (not one of the chain pet stores). Let us know when you get them.

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You'll want to get the antibiotics kanamycin and metronidazole. You can get these meds in these Seachem products: Kanaplex and Metroplex. You can purchase these online or at a local fish store (not one of the chain pet stores). Let us know when you get them.

 

I ordered from DFS today, i'll just have to wait a bit for it to come in

 

I moved him back into the main tank for now, since the tub was in my bf's bathroom and it was getting inconvenient. I'm changing the tank water at 50% twice a week, vs my regular 50% once a week. 

He's at least attempting to swim in the big tank, but i noticed something. His back tail seems to be bent slightly, and he is leaning towards one side. (He has developed sores along that side now)

he's not like, sideways, but he is leaning. I'll try to get a picture later, but do you think something could be wrong with his tail? 

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Lots of clean water is a good thing, so doing 50% wc twice a week is great!

 

There maybe something wrong with the tail, but I don't think it would be cause him to flip like in your previous pictures. But do post a picture. Can you get a video of him for us? At least 30 seconds or so. Ideally it would include him swimming at some point. Post video onto youtube then post the youtube link here.

 

When the meds come, you'll want to put the fish back into QT so that the other fish doesn't go through the antibiotic treatment.

 

Can you do me a favor and post me your water parameters before a water change for your main tank?

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Lots of clean water is a good thing, so doing 50% wc twice a week is great!

 

There maybe something wrong with the tail, but I don't think it would be cause him to flip like in your previous pictures. But do post a picture. Can you get a video of him for us? At least 30 seconds or so. Ideally it would include him swimming at some point. Post video onto youtube then post the youtube link here.

 

When the meds come, you'll want to put the fish back into QT so that the other fish doesn't go through the antibiotic treatment.

 

Can you do me a favor and post me your water parameters before a water change for your main tank?

Sure, I'll post everything tomorrow when i do the water change.

 

once the medication arrives, how long is the treatment? And... if it doesn't work, i mean, do you think it's even worth it to try anything else? I'm willing to try anything, but I'm not sure if i can handle another month with him being this way... and i'm not sure if he'd want to be either. 

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For Kanaplex it will be a minimum of 10-12 days. For Metro it would be a minimum of 14 days. The meds would be done simultaneously. These antibiotics together cover a broad range of bacteria so this is quite a powerful combination of meds.

 

Once the meds are in a moderator will help you with a treatment schedule.

 

I suggest right now not making a call of what to do if these meds don't work. How about making this call: On day 10 of the treatment, we assess how it is going and proceed from there?

 

Do you have an airstone for the QT? Also a heater would be good. I noticed the tank water is around 68F. It would be good to have a warmer QT (72-76F) to help your fish's immune system.

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How is your fish doing with eating?

I'm sorry I haven't updated, my phone hasn't been able to take a video of him :/ he never moves when I go to take it. He doesn't move that much honestly... He can swim himself down a foot or two but as soon as he stops wiggling he just floats back up.

He's eating peas mostly. I tried some frozen blood worms but they kind of broke apart when he tried to eat them so it was hard to get him to eat enough with that.

One thing I did notice- every once in a while he will spit out shreds of peas? I don't know why. Rarely he will also spit out a whole chunk. I don't know why he's doing it but he leaves pea debris trails almost (and then the blood shrimp collect them into a pile.) I think he is eating most of it. I am not feeding him much, maybe 4 peas max at feeding and I do feed them slowly.

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