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Oranda keeps getting split fins


GoldieNewb

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Hey guys,

 

I've had this on going issue with my oranda where his fins keep fraying. I'm pretty sure it's not the water quality since I'm doing 2 weekly changes (around 80% at a time) and since my tank isn't overstocked. I did recently add a bn pleco but I've been told it's not him causing the fraying. I've never seen my pleco act aggressive at all so I'm hoping that isn't the case. I thought it might be flukes so I treated the tank for 4 rounds with prazi pro and salt. I just finished that up 2 weeks ago. His fins seemed to do better after the treatment ended but then I noticed the fraying came back with a vengeance a few days ago. I took all my plastic plants out before starting the prazi for fear of them somehow ripping his fins, so now I've only got 1 piece of mopani drift wood and some smooth stones in there. The funny thing is that my telescope (whose tail is much bigger and seems more delicate) doesn't have any fraying at all. I'm not sure if this may be some sort of internal thing but I would really love it if you guys could help me figure out what's going on :(

 

I've also noticed some constipation issues where there's been a lot of trapped air bubbles in his poop. I've been feeding Repashy along with steamed greens and sometimes hikari pellets. Yesterday I noticed his poop was almost white but today that's seemed to have cleared up.

 

Test Results for the Following:
* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
* Nitrate level(Tank) 40ppm
* Ammonia Level(Tap) .50 - 1
* Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
* Nitrate level(Tap) 0
* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) ph 8.2
* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) ph 8.8
Other Required Info:
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API freshwater master kit
* Water temperature? 73
* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55 gal, running for about 6 months but was cycled with media from previous tank
* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? aqua clear 110 and aqua clear 70
* How often do you change the water and how much? 2xs a week, 70-80% each time
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Friday, about 75%
* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 fish, oranda 3", telescope is about 5" inches, bristtlenose pleco about 2"
* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime and baking soda to control my pH problem
* What do you feed your fish and how often? My little oranda gets constipated very easily, because of this I have to feed everyone Repashy Soilent green as their main diet. They get feed morning, noon, and night. I have increased their food amount since I haven't noticed them growing. I also feed them a whole cube of San Fran Bay frozen blood worms 1x week along with some peas, spinach, or kale to help keep them from floating or regular.

* Any new fish added to the tank? The bristlenose was added about 1.5 months ago
* Any medications added to the tank? .not at this time
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. They've all been treated with prazi when I got them, I think each got 4-5 rounds. I have treated with epsom salt in the past since my ranchu that passed had dropsy. I have also used a product called general cure since my friend told me it might help with internal parasites. I treated the tank with that product about 3 weeks ago. recently I did a 4 round treatment of prazi pro along with salt in my main tank. I ended this about 2 weeks ago.
* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Please see above.
* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Aside from the frayed fins my oranda seems fine. My telescope does do this strange thing where she bottom sits after my water changes but she snaps out of it pretty quickly. 

 

 

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When you did Prazi:

 

1)  Did you do the 5 or the 7-day rounds?

2)  What the salt concentration at 0.1% (1 Teaspoon per gallon)?

3)  Were there any chemical medias in the filters (carbon, purigen, etc.)?

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:hi Beautiful fish!

 

What salt concentration did you use during the prazi treatment? Did you use prazipro or powdered prazi?

 

The high nitrates (even though two large wc's are done per week) and the long poops hanging from your goldfish indicate that too much food is being fed. You wrote you have been feeding them more food because you haven't seen growth. Your fish look healthy to me. I suggest cutting back on the feeding to reduce stress on their digestive system and to reduce your nitrates. Here is information on poops: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html

 

I don't think the high nitrates are causing the split fins though.

 

Edit: Sniped by Jared!

Edited by LisaCGold
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When you did Prazi:

 

1)  Did you do the 5 or the 7-day rounds?

2)  What the salt concentration at 0.1% (1 Teaspoon per gallon)?

3)  Were there any chemical medias in the filters (carbon, purigen, etc.)?

 

 

:hi Beautiful fish!

 

What salt concentration did you use during the prazi treatment? Did you use prazipro or powdered prazi?

 

The high nitrates (even though two large wc's are done per week) and the long poops hanging from your goldfish indicate that too much food is being fed. You wrote you have been feeding them more food because you haven't seen growth. Your fish look healthy to me. I suggest cutting back on the feeding to reduce stress on their digestive system and to reduce your nitrates. Here is information on poops: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html

 

I don't think the high nitrates are causing the split fins though.

 

Edit: Sniped by Jared!

 

You might be right about the overfeeding. I started off underfeeding my fish out of fear of over doing it but that seems to have lead to my ranchu's early demise. Since then I've bulked up their feedings. To be honest, I'm not sure how much I should feed. :/

 

I used the liquid prazi pro and did the 5 day rounds. I had the salt at .3% for the double dose round then went to .1% for the remainder of the treatment.

 

I don't have any chemical media.

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When you did Prazi:

 

1)  Did you do the 5 or the 7-day rounds?

2)  What the salt concentration at 0.1% (1 Teaspoon per gallon)?

3)  Were there any chemical medias in the filters (carbon, purigen, etc.)?

 

 

:hi Beautiful fish!

 

What salt concentration did you use during the prazi treatment? Did you use prazipro or powdered prazi?

 

The high nitrates (even though two large wc's are done per week) and the long poops hanging from your goldfish indicate that too much food is being fed. You wrote you have been feeding them more food because you haven't seen growth. Your fish look healthy to me. I suggest cutting back on the feeding to reduce stress on their digestive system and to reduce your nitrates. Here is information on poops: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html

 

I don't think the high nitrates are causing the split fins though.

 

Edit: Sniped by Jared!

 

You might be right about the overfeeding. I started off underfeeding my fish out of fear of over doing it but that seems to have lead to my ranchu's early demise. Since then I've bulked up their feedings. To be honest, I'm not sure how much I should feed. :/

 

I used the liquid prazi pro and did the 5 day rounds. I had the salt at .3% for the double dose round then went to .1% for the remainder of the treatment.

 

I don't have any chemical media.

 

 

:hi Beautiful fish!

 

What salt concentration did you use during the prazi treatment? Did you use prazipro or powdered prazi?

 

The high nitrates (even though two large wc's are done per week) and the long poops hanging from your goldfish indicate that too much food is being fed. You wrote you have been feeding them more food because you haven't seen growth. Your fish look healthy to me. I suggest cutting back on the feeding to reduce stress on their digestive system and to reduce your nitrates. Here is information on poops: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/GoldfishPoop.html

 

I don't think the high nitrates are causing the split fins though.

 

Edit: Sniped by Jared!

 

Also - thanks! :) He's a little brat but I love him.

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For gel food, the target is 2-3% of body weight per day. For dry food, the target is 0.75-1.0% of body weight per day. If you do both types of food per day then around 1.5%-1.75%.

 

What I had to do to figure out what 1% of body weight of food looked like was to weigh the fish, then figure out what 1% of that weight was. Then I took that measurement and weighed out gel food, then dry food. I then got to see how much food would be 1% of body weight. This then helped me to figure out how much food, gel and dry, to feed them a day (I targeted 1.75% of gel and dry per day).

 

I did that measurement only one time. As my fish have gotten bigger, I've just adjusted. But it is hard to see that my fish are gotting bigger because I see them everyday. So when I start to see them bottom sit too much, I cut back a bit on the food then the bottom sitting eases up.

 

I hope this helps.

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Can you post a picture of your entire tank?

 

So you completed 4 rounds of prazi and salt (5 day schedule) two weeks ago: 0.3% salt with double dose of prazipro for 1 round, then 0.1% salt with prazipro for 3 rounds.  Was your bn pleco in the tank during this treatment?

Edited by LisaCGold
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For gel food, the target is 2-3% of body weight per day. For dry food, the target is 0.75-1.0% of body weight per day. If you do both types of food per day then around 1.5%-1.75%.

What I had to do to figure out what 1% of body weight of food looked like was to weigh the fish, then figure out what 1% of that weight was. Then I took that measurement and weighed out gel food, then dry food. I then got to see how much food would be 1% of body weight. This then helped me to figure out how much food, gel and dry, to feed them a day (I targeted 1.75% of gel and dry per day).

I did that measurement only one time. As my fish have gotten bigger, I've just adjusted. But it is hard to see that my fish are gotting bigger because I see them everyday. So when I start to see them bottom sit too much, I cut back a bit on the food then the bottom sitting eases up.

I hope this helps.

Ok - I will give it a try next time I clean the tank. I'll try to weigh them :)

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Can you post a picture of your entire tank?

So you completed 4 rounds of prazi and salt (5 day schedule) two weeks ago: 0.3% salt with double dose of prazipro for 1 round, then 0.1% salt with prazipro for 3 rounds. Was your bn pleco in the tank during this treatment?

I would but my internet is down at the moment, can't access a photo hosting site at this time :/ I will try to load one up tomorrow.

And yes - that's how I went about the prazi and yes the bn was in the tank. He didn't seem to mind the treatment.

Edited by GoldieNewb
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:hi  I am not convinced enough that this is flukes to repeat the salt and Prazi rounds.  It seems like you did a good job with the original treatment protocol, so let's look elsewhere for the problem before treating for flukes again.  I recommend that you somehow separate the Oranda from the Pleco by either:

 

1) Quarantining the Oranda, 

 

2) Quarantining the Pleco, 

 

3) Or using a divider in the tank.

 

There is a slight possibility that this particular Pleco is being aggressive/protective at night over food and/or territory.  It may be afraid of the larger Telescope which is why it only attacks the smaller Oranda.  It could also be that the Oranda is more inclined than the Telescope to encroach upon the Pleco's food and/or territory(the wood).  What kind of food are you providing for the Pleco and when do you feed it?  Lastly, are you sure it's a Bristlenose?

 

The other advantage of quarantining the Oranda is that you could directly treat the split fins with something mild like salt or Melafix without treating the other fish.

 

As for the constipation, it might be worth switching from Solient Green to Super Green and feeding frozen blood worms as a second daily meal to balance the veggies and protein.  Several people have reported that their fish become constipated on Solient Green.

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:hi  I am not convinced enough that this is flukes to repeat the salt and Prazi rounds.  It seems like you did a good job with the original treatment protocol, so let's look elsewhere for the problem before treating for flukes again.  I recommend that you somehow separate the Oranda from the Pleco by either:

 

1) Quarantining the Oranda, 

 

2) Quarantining the Pleco, 

 

3) Or using a divider in the tank.

 

There is a slight possibility that this particular Pleco is being aggressive/protective at night over food and/or territory.  It may be afraid of the larger Telescope which is why it only attacks the smaller Oranda.  It could also be that the Oranda is more inclined than the Telescope to encroach upon the Pleco's food and/or territory(the wood).  What kind of food are you providing for the Pleco and when do you feed it?  Lastly, are you sure it's a Bristlenose?

 

The other advantage of quarantining the Oranda is that you could directly treat the split fins with something mild like salt or Melafix without treating the other fish.

 

As for the constipation, it might be worth switching from Solient Green to Super Green and feeding frozen blood worms as a second daily meal to balance the veggies and protein.  Several people have reported that their fish become constipated on Solient Green.

 

I'm pretty sure he's a BN but I've attached photos so you can see for yourself. I feed him 1 - 2 Omega One Veggie Rounds at night before bed. He also eats pieces of soylent green gel food whenever I feed that to my goldies. 

 

I will go ahead and try out the Super Green, hopefully it'll work better for them :(

 

As for how I'll go about the QT, I think I'll put my oranda in the tub alone. That way, like you said, I can medicate him. I just always feel bad about separating my silly pair. ^^;

 

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Yep, that's a male albino Bristlenose.  He is gorgeous.  I have three females.  The males can be a bit more aggressive if a fish is eating their food or going into their cave.  I feel that this is justified, though.  Ping, my white Ranchu is just terrible to my Pleco, Bubbles.  He nips at her and steals her food  :madrant

 

Do you actually observe your Pleco eating the Veggie Rounds and Repashy?  Does the Oranda snatch it?  Any Pleco will be aggressive if they are starving :idont

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Yep, that's a male albino Bristlenose.  He is gorgeous.  I have three females.  The males can be a bit more aggressive if a fish is eating their food or going into their cave.  I feel that this is justified, though.  Ping, my white Ranchu is just terrible to my Pleco, Bubbles.  He nips at her and steals her food  :madrant

 

Do you actually observe your Pleco eating the Veggie Rounds and Repashy?  Does the Oranda snatch it?  Any Pleco will be aggressive if they are starving :idont

Thanks :) Well, I have noticed both of my goldies being jerks to him but I think my telescope is worse. I have seen him latch onto the food and I always try to drop it next to the driftwood so he'll be able to eat it under the wood where the goldies can't bug him. I also think he's pretty brazen because he has no qualms with snatching their meals from under them! He just kinda hunkers down and ignores their pecks. I don't have much experience with BN's but I think he looks pretty well fed? :/

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Yep, that's a male albino Bristlenose.  He is gorgeous.  I have three females.  The males can be a bit more aggressive if a fish is eating their food or going into their cave.  I feel that this is justified, though.  Ping, my white Ranchu is just terrible to my Pleco, Bubbles.  He nips at her and steals her food  :madrant

 

Do you actually observe your Pleco eating the Veggie Rounds and Repashy?  Does the Oranda snatch it?  Any Pleco will be aggressive if they are starving :idont

Thanks :) Well, I have noticed both of my goldies being jerks to him but I think my telescope is worse. I have seen him latch onto the food and I always try to drop it next to the driftwood so he'll be able to eat it under the wood where the goldies can't bug him. I also think he's pretty brazen because he has no qualms with snatching their meals from under them! He just kinda hunkers down and ignores their pecks. I don't have much experience with BN's but I think he looks pretty well fed? :/

 

Okay, let's just see if there's anything to this by separating them.  And to clarify,  I didn't mean that you were starving him, but that maybe the piggy Goldfish were stealing all of his food like mine do :rofl

 

There may be no connection between the Pleco and the torn fins, but I'd rather test this first rather than medicate unnecessarily.  

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One more thought:  Before you buy any new foods, try taking Lisa's suggestion and cutting back on the amount of food you are feeding.  Give less Solient Green (cut into tiny pieces), stop the terrestrial vegetables and only offer 1/2 cube of bloodworms in one sitting rather than a whole cube.  Try to spread the food all over the tank so it takes them longer to find and eat it.  This helped my fish a lot.  Here's what I feed them daily:

 

Morning: NLS Thera-A (soaked to sink) or Hikari Lionhead (sinks immediately)

 

Midday:  Repashy Super Green

 

Evening:  SFB Frozen Bloodworms

 

What kind of Hikari pellets are you feeding?

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Yep, that's a male albino Bristlenose.  He is gorgeous.  I have three females.  The males can be a bit more aggressive if a fish is eating their food or going into their cave.  I feel that this is justified, though.  Ping, my white Ranchu is just terrible to my Pleco, Bubbles.  He nips at her and steals her food  :madrant

 

Do you actually observe your Pleco eating the Veggie Rounds and Repashy?  Does the Oranda snatch it?  Any Pleco will be aggressive if they are starving :idont

Thanks :) Well, I have noticed both of my goldies being jerks to him but I think my telescope is worse. I have seen him latch onto the food and I always try to drop it next to the driftwood so he'll be able to eat it under the wood where the goldies can't bug him. I also think he's pretty brazen because he has no qualms with snatching their meals from under them! He just kinda hunkers down and ignores their pecks. I don't have much experience with BN's but I think he looks pretty well fed? :/

 

Okay, let's just see if there's anything to this by separating them.  And to clarify,  I didn't mean that you were starving him, but that maybe the piggy Goldfish were stealing all of his food like mine do :rofl

 

There may be no connection between the Pleco and the torn fins, but I'd rather test this first rather than medicate unnecessarily.  

 

 

 

One more thought:  Before you buy any new foods, try taking Lisa's suggestion and cutting back on the amount of food you are feeding.  Give less Solient Green (cut into tiny pieces), stop the terrestrial vegetables and only offer 1/2 cube of bloodworms in one sitting rather than a whole cube.  Try to spread the food all over the tank so it takes them longer to find and eat it.  This helped my fish a lot.  Here's what I feed them daily:

 

Morning: NLS Thera-A (soaked to sink) or Hikari Lionhead (sinks immediately)

 

Midday:  Repashy Super Green

 

Evening:  SFB Frozen Bloodworms

 

What kind of Hikari pellets are you feeding?

 

 

Ok, I've got him in my QT but haven't added any salt. Do you think that it'll be bad to add it in since I just finished the prazi and his tank was salted throughout the treatment? I worry about overdoing it with the salinity. 

 

Just out of curiosity, why should I stop the veggies? Is it bad for them? I've always heard it helps keep them regular. 

 

Half a cube of the bloodworms for the whole tank, right? 

 

I am feeding Saki but I do have lionhead. I just think they get floatier on lionhead so I try to feed it sparingly. :)

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Just do 0.1% salt to help the fins heal.  It's fine :)

 

I just feel that Goldfish do better on foods that come from their natural environment, thus the algae gel and the bloodworms.  Terrestrial vegetables can be helpful from time to time for constipataion, etc., but I'm not convinced they are a good staple :idont 

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Just do 0.1% salt to help the fins heal.  It's fine :)

 

I just feel that Goldfish do better on foods that come from their natural environment, thus the algae gel and the bloodworms.  Terrestrial vegetables can be helpful from time to time for constipataion, etc., but I'm not convinced they are a good staple :idont

 

That's good to know, I'll go ahead and salt the tank :)

 

Interesting. They really love their spinach but I guess I'll move it to a snack instead of meal. Thanks!

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