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210 Oranda

Oranda issues.. Newbie doing everything wrong..! :(

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I think that Lisa assumed that you have the two sick fish in a hospital tank and that the main tank is now empty.  I understand that the two surviving fish are in the 20 gallon.  Which of us is right?  If I am, I suggest you keep the filter running, but since this is a hospital tank now, I think you should remove all of the substrate.  You can wash and disinfect it for future use if you wish, but don't put it back in the tank.  It's impossible to clean the "nasties" from the bottom of a tank with a substrate.

 

What a lot of rotten luck you have had.  I wouldn't blame you for quitting, but you have learned a lot and can apply that to a fresh start.  If you want to do a fresh start, you could get the 75 gallon you want, set it up and begin a fishless cycle.  This tank is big enough for 4 goldfish, but I suggest you get just one at a time  --  two at the most.

 

The first thing you should do is contact this organization, which appears to meet in your area.  I assume the membership includes breeders of fancy goldfish who will know other breeders of fancy goldfish.  The best choice is to get your fish from a reliable breeder.

 

Then set up your 75 gallon, and begin fishless cycling.  Until you have had perfectly healthy fish for several months in this tank, I would keep it stripped down -- no substrate, no ornaments, not even plants.  Just a new, or completely disinfected filter, with new media.  If you use aeration, get new airstones and tubing.

 

DON'T use anything from your existing tanks in the new one unless it has been thoroughly disinfected with bleach or potassium pemanganate.  That includes hoses, nets, etc.  I wouldn't reuse any gravel or other substrate, since that is difficult to disinfect and is the dirtiest part of the tank system.  We don't know what killed your fish, but we do know we don't want it to get into your new tank.

I wanted to thank you for the tip on the "Texas Koi & Fancy Goldfish association"..

I think I found a local reputable GF seller, which by the way has a very different price (way more expensive) than the other local ones.. (not luck with a breeder yet)

 

Im mentioning all this because Im planning something & I need the experts advice before I do anything..

 

My first question(s)..

How long can you leave new fish in a QT tank ??.. 1,2,3 months??   As long as you want as long as the water is clean/no ammonia or nitrite.

 

Can you have two or more small fish from the same source in the same QT tank (10G) at same time or should all be in separate containers???  If they are from the same source, they can go in the same tank but I would have a spare tank or tub to isolate one if needed.  They still may all react differently to QT.

 

Im getting a used 100 or 120 gallon tank within the next 5 days but Im asking this because I reserved 3 little fish from this "reputable source" and I either have to pick them up tomorrow or they will be put back to their retail ponds..

 

My plan is to have the main 100G tank "fishless cycling" while the 3 fish are in the QT little tank so when the cycle is done I can move them one by one with a 7-10 day period.  Why don't you put the 2 you already have in the 100 gallon (once they are done with QT) along with the filter that is currently already cycling?  With 100 gallons and only 2 fish, it will take a while for ammonia and/or nitrite to build up.  Then once the other fish are done with QT and ready for the main tank, add them one by one as you'd planned.

 

I remind you that I have one surviving oranda calico that is barely getting off meds right now (metro, kana & prazi) so this guy will be staying in his separate QT 10G tank until the main 100G is cycled.

 

I also have another oranda by himself in the 20G tank that is "the main" tank right now.. he is being QT w/ salt + prazi as precaution (this a new fish that was given to me for the other 2 loses)

 

Im planning to do as you said.. No substrate, decorations or plants for several months..

 

I have just purchased a (supposedly new) sump filter (Eshoops WD-75CS) & a Fluval 306.. but since the sump looks super dirty I wonder if I should boil the bioballs or just bleach them ???  Boil for at least 5 minutes.

 

Am I going to have enough filtration with this two guys for a 100-120G tank ???  We recommend 10X filtration with HOB filters and 5-7X filtration with canister filters. 

the pump they gave me is the Rio1700 which pumps 350-400gph at 3' to 4' distance

 

 

Thank you again so much for all the tips & advice!!

 

 

You're the boss..!

Thanks!

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In regards the main tank.. I have the new oranda in it since Wed, Feb 11

The tank is (obviously) uncycled & has the filter working in it..

He has .3% salt & prazi, which by the way Im planning to do 3 rounds doing 4 days w/prazi & 3 days without.. Is this ok??   Yes.

 

Also.. in case the new oranda ends its quarantine w/o issues..

Can I add the calico to the main tank afterwords or do I need to do something to the tank prior to adding???  I would just do a large WC.  And keep a close eye on the cycle as you'll be doubling the bioload by adding the calico.

 

The calico is looking great!!  :hi5

Agreed! He looks happy and normal.

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With three small fish in a 100 gallon tank, you might well have the tank cycle without ever seeing ammonia or nitrite.  In a pond with plants and algae growing, you could cycle without ever seeing ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.  You would be surprised at how often someone comes on a pond forum and complains that their pond has not cycled after six months with fish.  We ask what are the nitrogen parameters and they say all zero, but argue that it can't possibly be cycled because they have no nitrate and never had ammonia or nitrite.

 

After a month, you should be able to add the other fish to the tank, but do one at a time with a week in between, and check ammonia and nitrite for a few days after each addition.

 

I would strongly encourage you to treat those fish from the reputable source with prazi.  Perfectly healthy fish have flukes that they live in balance with.  However, there are many strains of these parasites, and being more or less immune to their own flukes does not make them immune to somebody else's flukes.  It is possible to put two perfectly healthy fish from two different sources together and have both become sick with flukes.  

 

 

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With three small fish in a 100 gallon tank, you might well have the tank cycle without ever seeing ammonia or nitrite.  In a pond with plants and algae growing, you could cycle without ever seeing ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.  You would be surprised at how often someone comes on a pond forum and complains that their pond has not cycled after six months with fish.  We ask what are the nitrogen parameters and they say all zero, but argue that it can't possibly be cycled because they have no nitrate and never had ammonia or nitrite.

 

After a month, you should be able to add the other fish to the tank, but do one at a time with a week in between, and check ammonia and nitrite for a few days after each addition.

 

I would strongly encourage you to treat those fish from the reputable source with prazi.  Perfectly healthy fish have flukes that they live in balance with.  However, there are many strains of these parasites, and being more or less immune to their own flukes does not make them immune to somebody else's flukes.  It is possible to put two perfectly healthy fish from two different sources together and have both become sick with flukes.  

I got them (3) yesterday.. The guy who sold them to me said that he had all stock in QT for a month but I will follow your instructions as precaution.

So you want salt at .3% & prazi (double dose) or just prazi (single dose/no salt) ???

 

Also.. I forgot to mention that I have a water softener at home so the water they have comes from that filter.. Is this ideal for them or should I get it before the softener ???

 

Last question..

Im looking at several tanks right now.. some of them are 18" high some are 25".. I believe they do better in shallow tanks but if the "best conditions" tank I find is 48" x 25" instead of 72" x 18"..

Will this 25" tall tank be "ideal" for their full growth potential or should I wait to get an 18" .. ???? (does it make sense what Im saying?)

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It never hurts to salt and prazi, you just never know! It's solid prophylaxis with no downside but the cost of prazi. As for tank dimensions, I'm running into this a bit in my own custom tank design, because we are looking at a corner tank. You don't want it overly tall but sometimes the footprint cannot be helped.

18 inches would be preferable, but 25 inches tall isn't deal breaker height unless the fish is already struggling with swim bladder issues. Healthy goldies should still do just fine provided they have enough lateral swimming space and the current isn't too wild.

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In regards the main tank.. I have the new oranda in it since Wed, Feb 11

The tank is (obviously) uncycled & has the filter working in it..

He has .3% salt & prazi, which by the way Im planning to do 3 rounds doing 4 days w/prazi & 3 days without.. Is this ok??   Yes.

 

Also.. in case the new oranda ends its quarantine w/o issues..

Can I add the calico to the main tank afterwords or do I need to do something to the tank prior to adding???  I would just do a large WC.  And keep a close eye on the cycle as you'll be doubling the bioload by adding the calico.

 

The calico is looking great!!  :hi5

 

 

Im having issues now with the orange oranda.. :(

He's acting lethargic, sometimes heavy breathing & hasn't eat anything in a couple of days.. (spitting out)

I figure this behaviour is related to flukes but when I saw him today laying on his side I got worried..

 

I remind you that he's by himself in a 20G (uncycled) on second round of prazi & .3% salt

Should I start any meds?

 

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Awe, he looks pretty sad just floating around in the current. Poor little guy :(. I have no advice I'm thinking about you and your sweet pets!

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Awe, he looks pretty sad just floating around in the current. Poor little guy :(. I have no advice I'm thinking about you and your sweet pets!

Do you think it could be harmful to start a Metro dosage ?.. I mean.. I just did 25% WC and he perked up a little but he still hasn't eat in 4-5 days

he's not moving much but at least he isn't facing the corner or laying on his side

 

I believe you know some tricks in how to feed them when sick.. if so, I'll appreciate some pointers

 

Thank you!!

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:hi  Sorry I haven't been around.  Had a very unexpected family death.   :(

 

How's he doing?  What have you tried feeding?  What day of round 2 of prazi are you on?

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:hi  Sorry I haven't been around.  Had a very unexpected family death.   :(

 

How's he doing?  What have you tried feeding?  What day of round 2 of prazi are you on?

Im sorry for your loss.. :(

 

Thank you for getting back to me..

Today is the 4th day of the second dose

I have not seeing him laying on the side (at least when I'm looking)

he doesn't move much.. he stays in the same spot all day but faces away as soon as I approach the tank

 

I've tried to feed him peas, pellets & bloodworms but he doesn't even look at them

The last time he tried to eat something was on Sunday but spitted out

 

This is a Petsmart rescue.. hopefully we don't through the same as we did with the last two :no:

 

Question.. Do they regrow scales?? if so, do they come back same color ??

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:hi  Sorry I haven't been around.  Had a very unexpected family death.   :(

 

How's he doing?  What have you tried feeding?  What day of round 2 of prazi are you on?

As expected.. :( .. he has something more than just flukes.. Dropsy!

I woke up this morning to a swollen-pinecone looking fish..

I immediately move him to a 5G "hospital" bucket and added some Metro & Kana (no salt or prazi)

 

If there's anything I should know or do to (try to) save him.. please let me know asap

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Oh geez.  :(

 

Metro and kana along with Epsom salt at 1/2 tsp per 10 gallons.  Epsom salt is not at all the same as regular aquarium salt.  Do you have Epsom?  If not, you can find it at most places that have a pharmacy (Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, Target, etc) 

 

After reading your first post I was going to suggest metro and kana.  You beat me to it. 

 

You might want to snap a couple of pics of him from above as a reference for if things are improving or not.  Keep in mind it will probably take a good 48-72 hours to see improvement.  Hopefully in that time he will also become interested in food again.  I would give him a few days off of prazi and then start round 3 at the scheduled time.  You will not need aquarium salt in with him as long as he has the metro and kana in there . . . .

 

Keep us posted.

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Oh geez.  :(

 

Metro and kana along with Epsom salt at 1/2 tsp per 10 gallons.  Epsom salt is not at all the same as regular aquarium salt.  Do you have Epsom?  If not, you can find it at most places that have a pharmacy (Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, Target, etc) 

 

After reading your first post I was going to suggest metro and kana.  You beat me to it. 

 

You might want to snap a couple of pics of him from above as a reference for if things are improving or not.  Keep in mind it will probably take a good 48-72 hours to see improvement.  Hopefully in that time he will also become interested in food again.  I would give him a few days off of prazi and then start round 3 at the scheduled time.  You will not need aquarium salt in with him as long as he has the metro and kana in there . . . .

 

Keep us posted.

I don't have Epsom.. I use Mortons Canning.. but I'll get it today

 

I read somewhere in Kokos that when seeing a pinecone fish (dropsy) the fish won't live for long.. Is this correct ??

 

I also need to ask if dropsy is something that affect the entire tank (glass walls, filter, etc) or just the fish individually???.. 

I need to know if I need to kill my cycle again by bleaching everyhting or a 100%wc will be sufficient ???

 

I remind you that this fish was in the 20G (in the middle of cycling) but now is in a 5G bucket

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Oh geez.  :(

 

Metro and kana along with Epsom salt at 1/2 tsp per 10 gallons.  Epsom salt is not at all the same as regular aquarium salt.  Do you have Epsom?  If not, you can find it at most places that have a pharmacy (Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, Target, etc) 

 

After reading your first post I was going to suggest metro and kana.  You beat me to it. 

 

You might want to snap a couple of pics of him from above as a reference for if things are improving or not.  Keep in mind it will probably take a good 48-72 hours to see improvement.  Hopefully in that time he will also become interested in food again.  I would give him a few days off of prazi and then start round 3 at the scheduled time.  You will not need aquarium salt in with him as long as he has the metro and kana in there . . . .

 

Keep us posted.

I don't have Epsom.. I use Mortons Canning.. but I'll get it today

 

I read somewhere in Kokos that when seeing a pinecone fish (dropsy) the fish won't live for long.. Is this correct ??  Not necessarily.  I've had many fish recover from dropsy and live for years. 

 

I also need to ask if dropsy is something that affect the entire tank (glass walls, filter, etc) or just the fish individually???..  Dropsy is a sign of other problems, often internal bacterial infection.  The metro and kana will help with that.  Since there are no other fish in the tank (or is there?  :doh11: ) you could treat in the main tank if you'd like. 

 

I need to know if I need to kill my cycle again by bleaching everyhting or a 100%wc will be sufficient ???  That's up to you.  I think if you treat in the main tank, the antibiotics will take care of any nasties in the water/filters.   However, if you're more comfortable bleaching, go for it.  :D

 

I remind you that this fish was in the 20G (in the middle of cycling) but now is in a 5G bucket

 

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Oh geez.  :(

 

Metro and kana along with Epsom salt at 1/2 tsp per 10 gallons.  Epsom salt is not at all the same as regular aquarium salt.  Do you have Epsom?  If not, you can find it at most places that have a pharmacy (Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, Target, etc) 

 

After reading your first post I was going to suggest metro and kana.  You beat me to it. 

 

You might want to snap a couple of pics of him from above as a reference for if things are improving or not.  Keep in mind it will probably take a good 48-72 hours to see improvement.  Hopefully in that time he will also become interested in food again.  I would give him a few days off of prazi and then start round 3 at the scheduled time.  You will not need aquarium salt in with him as long as he has the metro and kana in there . . . .

 

Keep us posted.

I don't have Epsom.. I use Mortons Canning.. but I'll get it today

 

I read somewhere in Kokos that when seeing a pinecone fish (dropsy) the fish won't live for long.. Is this correct ??  Not necessarily.  I've had many fish recover from dropsy and live for years. 

 

I also need to ask if dropsy is something that affect the entire tank (glass walls, filter, etc) or just the fish individually???..  Dropsy is a sign of other problems, often internal bacterial infection.  The metro and kana will help with that.  Since there are no other fish in the tank (or is there?  :doh11: ) you could treat in the main tank if you'd like. 

 

I need to know if I need to kill my cycle again by bleaching everyhting or a 100%wc will be sufficient ???  That's up to you.  I think if you treat in the main tank, the antibiotics will take care of any nasties in the water/filters.   However, if you're more comfortable bleaching, go for it.  :D

 

I remind you that this fish was in the 20G (in the middle of cycling) but now is in a 5G bucket

 

 

Thanks!.. there's not other fish there..

& I rather not to bleach if is not neccesary.. so Im gonna do a 100%WC and return the fish from the 5G bucket to the 20G tank

 

Last question(s).. :duckk:

 

Is Kana & Metro going to kill all good bacteria from the "cycling filter" as well ???..

 

I assume I cannot longer use the biomedia (Eheim SubstratPro) of the 20G tank (which is in the process of cycling)

in the new 125G tank to help with the cycle, right???

Edited by 210 Oranda

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The metro and kana may kill some of the BBs from the cycling filter but hopefully not all . . .

 

When you move the fish to the 125, just move the media along with them.  :D

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I did a fish in cycle by mistake as well and my fish made it! So I know you can do it! Goodluck

Edited by msmayhem

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Oh geez.  :(

 

Metro and kana along with Epsom salt at 1/2 tsp per 10 gallons.  Epsom salt is not at all the same as regular aquarium salt.  Do you have Epsom?  If not, you can find it at most places that have a pharmacy (Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, Target, etc) 

 

After reading your first post I was going to suggest metro and kana.  You beat me to it. 

 

You might want to snap a couple of pics of him from above as a reference for if things are improving or not.  Keep in mind it will probably take a good 48-72 hours to see improvement.  Hopefully in that time he will also become interested in food again.  I would give him a few days off of prazi and then start round 3 at the scheduled time.  You will not need aquarium salt in with him as long as he has the metro and kana in there . . . .

 

Keep us posted.

Great news..!!..

The oranda with dropsy (is & looks) way better..!

The pinecone went away last Saturday.. he's eating well

 

Today is the 5th day on meds.. I just added the 3rd dose of Kana, Metro & Epsom salt..

So.. Do I do it for 12-14 days or should I stop (as package directions) when symptoms go away ???

 

Also.. Is the Epsom salt added every other day as meds or just replaced when water changes ???

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You'll want to take the kana to 12 days and the metro to 14 days. The Epsom should be replaced only when you do a WC. Once the scales are flat, I usually keep the Epsom in for just a few days after that. It doesn't need to be in there for the full 14 days.

Glad to hear things have improved! :hi5

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Yay for your fish getting better!!

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I'm glad he is doing better! It really just depends on each fish. Keep us posted!

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Hello..!

 

I bought this a little while ago to give as a treat.. I believe spirulina is good for goldfish and I read in kokos that some people feed them brine shrimp

However, the store mgr tells me that is like giving candy to a diabetic.. I guess because this is for carnivorous fish..

 

What do you all think ???.. Should or shouldn't.. ???

 

20150304_184745_zpsnkg11vli.jpg

 

20150304_184811_zps1ao0s4qp.jpg

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I feed Hikari frozen spirulina brine shrimp.  :idont  It's not a staple food but to use it as a "treat" like you said is fine.  I feed it a couple times a week along with blood worms (but I'm not feeding just one fish so i defrost a few cubes at a time :teehee ).

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I've been wanting to ask something about one of my new residents.. (which is in QT right now)

 

Since I got this lionhead (or ranchu) I noticed that his eyes were something that I never seen before in a goldfish..

They're soft blue (almost white)... so I don't know if he has some kind of fungal infection or perhaps he's blind or maybe just unique..

 

What do you all think??

 

20150305_235804_zpsjpm6uiu5.jpg

 

20150305_235725_zps8fmwqigc.jpg

 

 

Also.. I noticed some white in his head similar to the "white pimples" (wen growth) the other ones get but his is more pronounced..

He's with other two "new residents" in a QT tank (.1% salt & 2nd round of prazi) so please let me know if I need to isolate him for treatment 

 

 

20150305_235132_zpstrsvxawb.jpg

 

20150305_235005_zpsw7m1s0wy.jpg

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