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210 Oranda

Oranda issues.. Newbie doing everything wrong..! :(

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Hello again!!..

 

Just got home and Prazi is here.. so hopefully I get an answer from you guys before adding this stuff tomorrow morning

 

The orandas have been in salt for the last 7 days.. So I kinda wonder if they're gonna be ok in salt for another month..??? (regardless of concentration)  It's fine.

How about the temperature??.. They have been at 80 for the last 7 days.. Will they be ok for another month??.. When can I reduce temp? (if)  What % salt is in the tank right now?

Also.. Im using "Mortons canning & pickling"instead of API aquarium salt.. Is 1 teaspoon gonna be equivalent to API even though Mortons is super fine ???  Very good observation!  When using Mortons, use 3/4 tsp per gallon instead of 1 tsp per gallon.

 

___________________________________________________________

 

 

I need to go back and take a look at a few things before I comment on your treatment schedule . . .

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Hello again!!..

 

Just got home and Prazi is here.. so hopefully I get an answer from you guys before adding this stuff tomorrow morning

 

The orandas have been in salt for the last 7 days.. So I kinda wonder if they're gonna be ok in salt for another month..??? (regardless of concentration)  It's fine.

How about the temperature??.. They have been at 80 for the last 7 days.. Will they be ok for another month??.. When can I reduce temp? (if)  What % salt is in the tank right now?

Also.. Im using "Mortons canning & pickling"instead of API aquarium salt.. Is 1 teaspoon gonna be equivalent to API even though Mortons is super fine ???  Very good observation!  When using Mortons, use 3/4 tsp per gallon instead of 1 tsp per gallon.

 

___________________________________________________________

 

 

I need to go back and take a look at a few things before I comment on your treatment schedule . . .

 

How about the temperature??.. They have been at 80 degrees for the last 7 days.. Will they be ok for another month??.. When can I reduce temp? (if)  What % salt is in the tank right now?.. 0.3%

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OK, just read most of this thread again.  :rofl

 

You want the salt at 0.3% and temp at 80* for two weeks.  This is the typical ich treatment.  Have you seen any ich?  I dont' see any in the pics . . .  

 

I don't think anyone has said this yet but there is no need to continue adding Stability.  It takes several days for the bacteria in such products to establish themselves in your filter.  If you're doing once or twice daily WCs, you are simply dumping them down the sink . . .

 

Finally, this is the treatment schedule to follow (I copied and pasted what shakaho had written but will highlight a couple of things . . . . )

 

Day 1: Do your 25% water change and add Prazi at twice the recommended dose. Keep the salt at 0.3%. This is the beginning of Round 1.

 

Day 2-4: . Add prazi and salt to the replacement water each time you do a 25% water change. Do as many 25% water changes as you need to keep ammonia + nitrites below 1.0 ppm. 

 

Salt should be 1 Tablespoon per gallon. (Unless you are using Mortons.  Then go with 2 1/4 tsp per gallon.)  Prazi twice the recommended dose for the bucket size, and Prime twice the recommended dose for the entire tank.

 

Days 5-7 are NO prazi days in which case we need to figure out how you can do 100% WC that day to get rid of the prazi.  How much water would you be able to age at once?  You will need to do 100% WCs once a week.

 

Day 5-7:  Do as many 25% water changes as you need to keep ammonia + nitrites below 1.0 ppm.  Replacement  water should contain 1 Tbs per gallon of water (2 1/4 tsp per gallon for Morton's) and twice the recommended dose Prime for the full tank volume. This is the end of Round 1.

 

Here is another change I would make.  Since the fish have already been at 0.3% salt for 2 weeks (one without prazi, one with prazi) as long as there hasn't been any evidence of ich, I would drop to 0.1% salt and single dose prazi for the remaining rounds . . .  I will confer with the mod team on that but you wont' cross that bridge for at least a week so we will have it figured out by then.  :D  This is also where I would drop the temp back to normal, again assuming no ich.

 

Days 8-14  Round 2.  Same as Round 1.

 

Days 15-21 Round 3.  This is a little tricky because we are lowering the concentration of salt and prazi.  

 

FOR THE FIRST 4 WATER CHANGES, add no salt to the new water and add Prazi at the same dosage as in Rounds 1 and 2. This will get the salt concentration down to 0.1%.

 

After that, when you change water, use 0.1% salt (one teaspoon per gallon) and the recommended dose (not doubled) of prazi (on the days when you are using prazi) and just 0.1 salt on the days with no prazi.  

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The orandas have been in salt for the last 7 days.. So I kinda wonder if they're gonna be ok in salt for another month..

 

They will be fine with salt.  What concentration are you currently using?  I believe the initial recommendations assumed your fish had ich, and you later were quite sure it was not ich.  Is this correct?  

 

How about the temperature??.. They have been at 80 for the last 7 days.

 

I believe this recommendation was based on the assumption the fish had ich.  Raising the temperature makes treatment go faster.  If the fish don't have ich, there is no reason for the raised temperature.  If you keep your house ~ 75 F daytime, just turn off the heater in the morning.  If you keep it 70F or lower, lower the heat to 75 for a couple of days, then turn it off.

 

Also.. Im using "Mortons canning & pickling"instead of API aquarium salt.. Is 1 teaspoon gonna be equivalent to API even though Mortons is super fine ???

 

It's not equivalent, as you can read here.   To be exactly right, you should use 3/4 t instead of 1 t.  You won't do any harm to your fish if you use the larger amount.  

 

first..I'm gonna add 2 teaspoons of Prazi + 4ml of Prime + 1 capfull of Stability to the tank after changing 25% (5G) of temperature matched water (@80 degrees).. Obviously Im gonna add 15 teaspoons (or 5 tablespoons) of salt to the 5G prior to add to tank

 

Second... "If" for the next 3 days my ammonia remains <1.0, I'll leave everything as is.. If it gets >1.0.. I'll do 25%WC as needed to remain under 1.0, replacing Prazi, Prime Stability & Salt proportional to the 5 gallon exchange

 

I think there is almost no chance that you can skip a water change at this stage of cycling.  What I would do is, right after a 25% water change, prepare the bucket of water for the next day.  To me, doing the same change every day works better and is less fuss.  However what you are proposing is perfectly correct. 

 

Then days 5, 6 & 7 I'll do 25% wc "if" needed (to maintain ammonia + nitrites <1.0) with salt, Prime & Stability but NO Prazi

 

No "if needed" here.  We want to remove the prazi and probably some dead flukes as well.  At this stage, we usually do a 100% water change to accomplish that.  The rest from prazi is to allow flukes at a stage in their life cycle that is insensitive to prazi  to progress to a sensitive stage. so we do 4 days of prazi and 3 days without in each round.

 

Then day 8, I'll add 2 teaspoons of Prazi + 4ml of Prime + 1 capfull of Stability to the tank after changing 25% (5G) of temperature matched water w/ salt (@80 degrees & 5 tbs salt)

 

Then days 9 to 14 same as 2 to 7...

 

Day 15.. I do a 25% wc with NO salt but double dose for Prazi (which for 5G should be 1/2 tsp), capful of Stability and double dose of Prime for 20G

 

Day 16.. same as 15

Day 17.. same as 15

Day 18.. same as 15

 

Question.. Do I still have 0.1% of salt If Im doing (4) 25% WC without salt from day 15-18..  ????

 

I was assuming you were at 0.3% salt.  The four water changes without salt were for the purpose of lowering the salt to 0.1%.  

 

Day 19.. I do a 25% WC with 5 teaspoons of salt, 1/4 tbs of Prazi, capful of Stability & 4ml of Prime.. right???

Day 20.. I do a 25% WC with 5 teaspoons of salt, 1/4 tbs of Prazi, capful of Stability & 4ml of Prime..

Day 21.. I do a 25% WC with 5 teaspoons of salt, 1/4 tbs of Prazi, capful of Stability & 4ml of Prime..

 

No.  These are no prazi days like days 5-7 and 12-14

 

But it gets confusing here because you say at the end to:

"use 0.1% salt (one teaspoon per gallon) and the recommended dose (not doubled) of prazi (on the days when you are using prazi) and just 0.1 salt on the days with no prazi"

 

Which are the days "with no prazi"..?? Im in the understanding that Im using Prazi until the day 21, right? (or not?).. then what happen ?

 

Days 5-7, 12-14, 19-21  I probably should have written out each day of the 21 rather than just tell you to repeat the weekly cycles.  It's funny, but when I read a schedule that goes from day 1 to day 21, I get terribly confused and have to lay it out in rounds to understand.  Clearly other people do not share this property.

 

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Also, how is their behavior today?  Eating?  :idont

They were in a corner in top of each other (motionless) before I turned the light up..

I gave them some bloodworms.. they ate some but when trying to get too many at once they ended up spitting everything out.. however they did it some..!!

 

_______________________________________

 

Secondly:

 

"You want the salt at 0.3% and temp at 80* for two weeks.  This is the typical ich treatment.  Have you seen any ich?  I dont' see any in the pics"

The red/black oranda had some ich last week but it went away a couple of days after starting .3% salt @ 80 degrees treatment

 

Days 5-7 are NO prazi days in which case we need to figure out how you can do 100% WC that day to get rid of the prazi.  How much water would you be able to age at once?  You will need to do 100% WCs once a week.

I have a sterilite tube (& a pump on the way) so I'll be able to do the 100% WC you are asking

 

_______________________________________________

 

Im starting NOW!!.. :flex:

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If you did see ich, then you need to keep the salt at 0.3% and temp at 80 for 10 days-2 weeks after the last spot of ich was observed . . . .  .

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Ok,I will leave temp @ 80 for another few days to do 2 weeks..

 

Im Prazi right now..

 

They better get "better"..!! :bat: :bat: :bat:

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Day one (almost) over..! ..20 more to go!.. :flex:

 

Please bare w/ me if I keep asking questions that perhaps have already been answered.. :) :)

 

 

20150128_152028_zpsuahi5gjd.jpg

 

20150128_151752_zps6my4w9k3.jpg

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Ask away! That's what we are here for! :D 

 

 

Awe! Poor babies! I just want to hug them! :bighug 

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Can you please upload a video?  Did you order meds (antibiotics)?  (You're not the only one that will repeat questions that have been answered.  :peeka )

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And they are currently in .3 salt and prazi, right?  They may just be feeling a bit bad from the fluke die-off.

Edited by motherredcap

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Here's the link of video 1:

 

Here's the link of video 2:

 

 

Im really concerned about Buddy.. He has been hiding behind the plant all day..  :( 

Should I turn off the light all day ???

 

Flukes is something common w/ Goldfish, right? ...

However these guys are only a few months old.. So, what are the chances he (or they) won't make it?.. :(

 

20150129_140236_zpsptpe3plc.jpg

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They aren't happy.  You're right; flukes are common.  Fish sometimes react poorly to the prazi because when the flukes die, they leave sores on the fish when they release their hold.  These sores can become infected.  That is why Fantail asked if you had antibiotics at hand. 

 

The fish aren't teeny tiny in the sense that they are so young that they are particularly vulnerable.  

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They aren't happy.  You're right; flukes are common.  Fish sometimes react poorly to the prazi because when the flukes die, they leave sores on the fish when they release their hold.  These sores can become infected.  That is why Fantail asked if you had antibiotics at hand. 

 

The fish aren't teeny tiny in the sense that they are so young that they are particularly vulnerable.  

Thank you!.. how about the lighting ?.. On or Off ???

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I would leave it off it they were my fish. It helps de-stress them :)

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Is it possible to cycle without seeing the nitrites!!???.. :P

 

I mean, I was 0.5 ammonia this morning before WC..

Now I'm less than .25 ammonia (I mean it looks yellow with a very light green hint)

my nitrites are 0% but my nitrates are 10ppm...!!!

 

Soooooooo????????????????

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Nitrates in tap water?

I think you're about to ruin my dream... :no:

 

I see tap at < 5.0

Tank at > 10.0

 

20150129_191148_zpsjxrqf6pd.jpg

 

20150129_191228_zps1q6vedbt.jpg

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Long white stringy poo can be stress or illness related. If you don't already have antibiotics on hand, you might want to get some. I would recommend powdered metronidazole and triple sulfa OR kanamycin.

Double dose Prime for the full tank volume, not just the amount you change. :)

Is Seachem "KanaPlex" same as any other Kanamycin powder??

I found it on Ebay for $8.. Is that price ok?

 

So you want me to get them all ?? (kana, metro & triple)

 

Metronidazole:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MicrobeLift-Metronidazole-Powder-3-5-oz-/351137141794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51c1679422

 

Kanamycin:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221551202396?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

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Get metro for sure. If you can get both kana and tri sulfa go ahead. They are both good to have on hand. Kana is broader spectrum but is more harsh than tri sulfa. If a fish has dropsy, I prefer the metro/tri sulfa option but for most others I like metro/kana.

The Kanaplex you linked is the one we recommend. I'm not sure on the metro that you linked. I would suggest this one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seachem-MetroPlex-formerly-Metronidazole-Metro-Fish-Ich-Crypto-Medication-5g-/291356300687?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d630558f

It's the one we usually recommend. And here is the triple sulfa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIPLE-SULFA-BY-AQUARIUM-PHARMACEUTICALS-API-POWDER-PACKET-10-PACK-/261542952803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce52cbf63

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Get metro for sure. If you can get both kana and tri sulfa go ahead. They are both good to have on hand. Kana is broader spectrum but is more harsh than tri sulfa. If a fish has dropsy, I prefer the metro/tri sulfa option but for most others I like metro/kana.

The Kanaplex you linked is the one we recommend. I'm not sure on the metro that you linked. I would suggest this one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seachem-MetroPlex-formerly-Metronidazole-Metro-Fish-Ich-Crypto-Medication-5g-/291356300687?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d630558f

It's the one we usually recommend. And here is the triple sulfa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIPLE-SULFA-BY-AQUARIUM-PHARMACEUTICALS-API-POWDER-PACKET-10-PACK-/261542952803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce52cbf63

Thanks!.. I'm gonna order them right away..

 

Did you get a chance to look at my nitrates picture ??..

Wondering if Im getting excited for no reason..

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The tank nitrate does look higher than tap to me.  :D  But I don't think you're done cycling.  :donthit:

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