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210 Oranda

Oranda issues.. Newbie doing everything wrong..! :(

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Agreed Tammy.  The fish most likely do not feel well because they have flukes and are in an uncycled tank.  The white spots are most likely normal wen growth.

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Hi,

Just wanted to mention to keep up with the prime as ammonia is more toxic at lower levels in a higher ph.

Thats too bad you are starting out your fish keeping experience like this. The constant water changes are stressful but once your tank cycles and your fish feel better you'll be able to enjoy them. I know its hard to watch sitting fish. You're doing everything you can and hopefully they will all bounce back after a few rounds of prazi.

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Thanks Cindi.. I just got confirmation from Fedex & the prazi should be home tomorrow..

Just a quick comment/question.. I gave them some chopped peas this afternoon to snack on and (after a few min) they all had a huge/long off white poop hanging .. is this related to their stress/flukes etc or something else completely different that I should take care of ??

Also.. in regards prime..

should I add double dose to the 5G im exchanging or double dose to the 20G ??

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Long white stringy poo can be stress or illness related. If you don't already have antibiotics on hand, you might want to get some. I would recommend powdered metronidazole and triple sulfa OR kanamycin.

Double dose Prime for the full tank volume, not just the amount you change. :)

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Thanks!..

I will get antibiotics tomorrow..

Will it hurt (them) if giving antibiotics without knowing 100% if is needed?

If it wont hurt them, should I try the prazi first or at same time w antibiotics ?

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We will start with the prazi along with salt.  We won't give the antibiotics unless they are needed.  The triple sulfa you should be able to find easily.  The metro and kana might be a little harder to find.  Big chain stores don't carry either of them.  If you have a locally owned pet store that would be your best bet.  If not, they can be found online.   :D

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:hi this is the Prazi schedule I would like you to follow :)

 

Because it is an uncycled tank, I found a post with a modified prazi schedule    :)

Day 1: Big WC (100%), add Prazi. Make sure salt is at the appropriate concentration. Your concentration is at .3%. Because it is at .3%, the prazi will need to be double dosed. This is the beginning of Round 1.

Day 2-4: If at any time the ammonia plus nitrites is equal to or greater than 1.0ppm then do 100% WC, add Prazi and salt. If ammonia plus nitrites is less then 1.0, then do a double dose of Prime to help make the ammonia and nitrites less toxic to the fish.
Day 5: 100% WC, replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.

Day 6: 100% WC, add Prazi and salt. This beginning of Round 2. Stay at .3% for the second round as well.

Day 7-9: Same as day 2-4.
Day 10: 100% WC, replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.

Day 11: 100% WC, add Prazi and salt. This is the beginning of round 3. For this round on you will be able to drop salt to .1% and single dose Prazi

Day 12-14: Same as day 2-4

Day 15: 100% WC, replace salt, but do not add Prazi. The is the end of round 3.

Day 16: 100% WC, add salt and Prazi. This is the beginning of round 4.

Day 17-19: Same as day 2-4

Day 20: 100% WC, replace sat, but do not add Prazi. The is the end of round 4.

Day 21: 100% WC, add salt and prazi. The is the beginning of round 5.

Day 22-24: Same as day 2-4

Day 25: 100% WC, replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of round 5.

5 rounds should be enough to fight off the flukes. Salt should now be able to be taken out from the water, but we will see the conditions of the fish after round 5 and see if we need to continue to round 6 or not.

in order for you to do a 100% water change, you will need to age 20 gallons of water for 24 hours. You can use a 20 gallon sterilite tub which can be purchased at Walmart or Target and add a heater and air stone to it to make sure it de-gases and is the correct temperature.

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Can I use the phyton to do the water changes or I need to age the water because of the Ph ??

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You can use the python to drain the tank, but you will need to fill it with the aged water so the temperature and pH will be matched.

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You can use the python to drain the tank, but you will need to fill it with the aged water so the temperature and pH will be matched.

Man!.. this is gonna be fun..

I really hope I can keep up with this for a month..!

I dont want to let them down but my work schedule is super tight

Whatever.. lets do this !!

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You can use the python to drain the tank, but you will need to fill it with the aged water so the temperature and pH will be matched.

Man!.. this is gonna be fun..

I really hope I can keep up with this for a month..!

I dont want to let them down but my work schedule is super tight

Whatever.. lets do this !!

 

What may help, is having two 20 gallon sterilite tubs filled and ready to go with pH and temperature matched water. So you can have one ready at any timeyou may need it even if you already used one.

 

Once your tank is cycled, it will be much easier :hug 

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Some of us who have to age our water with an airstone use a small pond pump to get it from the floor and into the tank without having to do bucket after bucket.  In the future (even after your tank is cycled) you will either need to do multiple 25% water changes during the week or if you want to do one large like 80-90% this is a real back and time saver.  Goldfish are super messy and need large fresh water changes on a weekly basis.

 

Here is the one I have but there are many out there and some are cheaper.  I use a regular cut off garden hose to go from the pump to the tank.  Make sure if you buy one you get one at least this strong so it can make it up the 4 or 5 ft to your tank.  This comes out at a nice rate but not so fast it pushes the fish all over ;)

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012UZYMG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

This one has held up well and I use it week after week.  I use two sterilite tubs one inside another to put my water in the night before.  They will bow a little but with two I have never in 3 years had one collapse.

Usually over night is enough to bring up your ph.  You can check it after 6 hours, after 12 hours etc to see how long it takes it to get close to the tank ph.

Edited by CindiL

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Why are you aging water when you are making 25% water changes?  Adjust your tap water to the temperature you want using the hot and cold taps, and pour a bucket of water into the tank.  When you are changing small volumes, you needn't fuss over the pH.

 

The prazi schedule you have been given is needlessly difficult.  Let me adjust it for you.  I'm not finding fault with Mikey's advice, but he's not carrying the buckets.

 

Day 1: Do your 25% water change and add Prazi at twice the recommended dose. Keep the salt at 0.3%. This is the beginning of Round 1.

 

Day 2-4: . Add prazi and salt to the replacement water each time you do a 25% water change. Do as many 25% water changes as you need to keep ammonia + nitrites below 1.0 ppm. 

 

Salt should be 1 Tablespoon per gallon.  Prazi twice the recommended dose for the bucket size, and Prime twice the recommended dose for the entire tank.

 

Day 5-7:  Do as many 25% water changes as you need to keep ammonia + nitrites below 1.0 ppm.  Replacement  water should contain 1 Tbs per gallon of water and twice the recommended dose Prime for the full tank volume. This is the end of Round 1.

 

Days 8-14  Round 2.  Same as Round 1.

 

Days 15-21 Round 3.  This is a little tricky because we are lowering the concentration of salt and prazi.  

 

FOR THE FIRST 4 WATER CHANGES, add no salt to the new water and add Prazi at the same dosage as in Rounds 1 and 2. This will get the salt concentration down to 0.1%.

 

After that, when you change water, use 0.1% salt (one teaspoon per gallon) and the recommended dose (not doubled) of prazi (on the days when you are using prazi) and just 0.1 salt on the days with no prazi.  

 

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it may be because of this..

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - Ph: between 8.4 & 8.8 - KH: 300 - GH: between 25 & 75

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - Ph: 7.4

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Yes, but a 25% WC will not drop the pH enough to be a concern . . .  And that KH is enviable.  :rofl3

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Yes, but a 25% WC will not drop the pH enough to be a concern . . .  And that KH is enviable.  :rofl3

Im just saying... Just the messenger... :duckk:

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Some of us who have to age our water with an airstone use a small pond pump to get it from the floor and into the tank without having to do bucket after bucket.  In the future (even after your tank is cycled) you will either need to do multiple 25% water changes during the week or if you want to do one large like 80-90% this is a real back and time saver.  Goldfish are super messy and need large fresh water changes on a weekly basis.

 

Here is the one I have but there are many out there and some are cheaper.  I use a regular cut off garden hose to go from the pump to the tank.  Make sure if you buy one you get one at least this strong so it can make it up the 4 or 5 ft to your tank.  This comes out at a nice rate but not so fast it pushes the fish all over ;)

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012UZYMG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

This one has held up well and I use it week after week.  I use two sterilite tubs one inside another to put my water in the night before.  They will bow a little but with two I have never in 3 years had one collapse.

Usually over night is enough to bring up your ph.  You can check it after 6 hours, after 12 hours etc to see how long it takes it to get close to the tank ph.

My back is worth more than 20 bucks.. Thank!!

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Some of us who have to age our water with an airstone use a small pond pump to get it from the floor and into the tank without having to do bucket after bucket.  In the future (even after your tank is cycled) you will either need to do multiple 25% water changes during the week or if you want to do one large like 80-90% this is a real back and time saver.  Goldfish are super messy and need large fresh water changes on a weekly basis.

 

Here is the one I have but there are many out there and some are cheaper.  I use a regular cut off garden hose to go from the pump to the tank.  Make sure if you buy one you get one at least this strong so it can make it up the 4 or 5 ft to your tank.  This comes out at a nice rate but not so fast it pushes the fish all over ;)

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012UZYMG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

This one has held up well and I use it week after week.  I use two sterilite tubs one inside another to put my water in the night before.  They will bow a little but with two I have never in 3 years had one collapse.

Usually over night is enough to bring up your ph.  You can check it after 6 hours, after 12 hours etc to see how long it takes it to get close to the tank ph.

My back is worth more than 20 bucks.. Thank!!

 

:thumbup2::lol:

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:rofl

Love my pump! Wouldn't know what I would do without it! :o

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Why are you aging water when you are making 25% water changes?  Adjust your tap water to the temperature you want using the hot and cold taps, and pour a bucket of water into the tank.  When you are changing small volumes, you needn't fuss over the pH.

 

The prazi schedule you have been given is needlessly difficult.  Let me adjust it for you.  I'm not finding fault with Mikey's advice, but he's not carrying the buckets.

 

Day 1: Do your 25% water change and add Prazi at twice the recommended dose. Keep the salt at 0.3%. This is the beginning of Round 1.

 

Day 2-4: . Add prazi and salt to the replacement water each time you do a 25% water change. Do as many 25% water changes as you need to keep ammonia + nitrites below 1.0 ppm. 

 

Salt should be 1 Tablespoon per gallon.  Prazi twice the recommended dose for the bucket size, and Prime twice the recommended dose for the entire tank.

 

Day 5-7:  Do as many 25% water changes as you need to keep ammonia + nitrites below 1.0 ppm.  Replacement  water should contain 1 Tbs per gallon of water and twice the recommended dose Prime for the full tank volume. This is the end of Round 1.

 

Days 8-14  Round 2.  Same as Round 1.

 

Days 15-21 Round 3.  This is a little tricky because we are lowering the concentration of salt and prazi.  

 

FOR THE FIRST 4 WATER CHANGES, add no salt to the new water and add Prazi at the same dosage as in Rounds 1 and 2. This will get the salt concentration down to 0.1%.

 

After that, when you change water, use 0.1% salt (one teaspoon per gallon) and the recommended dose (not doubled) of prazi (on the days when you are using prazi) and just 0.1 salt on the days with no prazi.

So.. you're saying that I get to save my fish & keep my job !?.. thank you!!

Actually I dont age the water (not enough time in my day, sorry)

it comes straight from the tap & I just adjust temperature (78-80) w cold/hot taps

ph only varies from 8.4-8.8 (b4 wc) to 8.2 after wc

To tell you the true I can't even keep up with the double 25% wc daily.. I did it once but my work doesn't allow me to keep doing it twice.

My ammonia has never gone above 1.0... right now is between .25 & .50.. usually before wc is between .50 & 1.0

So if you guys think I should be fine with 25% instead of 100% daily.. im in!

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Feed very lightly.  Once daily or even every other day.  Try once daily 25% WC and see how high ammonia and nitrite get. 

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Feed very lightly.  Once daily or even every other day.  Try once daily 25% WC and see how high ammonia and nitrite get. 

Now they're all spitting the pellets out.. I ended up picking up most of them this morning with the water change..

Are they gonna be ok eating 2-3 baby pellets a day for the next month ?

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The suggestion to age the water only applies to large water changes, not the 25% which is working out well.

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I agree with Lisa about reducing your feeding of pellets and trying for one change a day.  They can get by on very little food, but if it makes you feel better you can add some foods that won't contribute much to ammonia.  Ammonia comes from the protein in the food, so go for low-protein veggies.  Greens are always good.  Cut them into thin strips so they are easy to eat, and cook them soft.  Some people steam the greens, but a microwave works fine.  They may not realize this is food at first, but they will figure it out.  

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Hello again!!..

 

Just got home and Prazi is here.. so hopefully I get an answer from you guys before adding this stuff tomorrow morning

 

The orandas have been in salt for the last 7 days.. So I kinda wonder if they're gonna be ok in salt for another month..??? (regardless of concentration)

How about the temperature??.. They have been at 80 for the last 7 days.. Will they be ok for another month??.. When can I reduce temp? (if)

Also.. Im using "Mortons canning & pickling"instead of API aquarium salt.. Is 1 teaspoon gonna be equivalent to API even though Mortons is super fine ???

 

___________________________________________________________

 

Thanks for the those answers.. Back to treatment..

 

first..I'm gonna add 2 teaspoons of Prazi + 4ml of Prime + 1 capfull of Stability to the tank after changing 25% (5G) of temperature matched water (@80 degrees).. Obviously Im gonna add 15 teaspoons (or 5 tablespoons) of salt to the 5G prior to add to tank

 

Second... "If" for the next 3 days my ammonia remains <1.0, I'll leave everything as is.. If it gets >1.0.. I'll do 25%WC as needed to remain under 1.0, replacing Prazi, Prime Stability & Salt proportional to the 5 gallon exchange

 

Then days 5, 6 & 7 I'll do 25% wc "if" needed (to maintain ammonia + nitrites <1.0) with salt, Prime & Stability but NO Prazi

 

Then day 8, I'll add 2 teaspoons of Prazi + 4ml of Prime + 1 capfull of Stability to the tank after changing 25% (5G) of temperature matched water w/ salt (@80 degrees & 5 tbs salt)

 

Then days 9 to 14 same as 2 to 7...

 

Day 15.. I do a 25% wc with NO salt but double dose for Prazi (which for 5G should be 1/2 tsp), capful of Stability and double dose of Prime for 20G

 

Day 16.. same as 15

Day 17.. same as 15

Day 18.. same as 15

 

Question.. Do I still have 0.1% of salt If Im doing (4) 25% WC without salt from day 15-18..  ????

 

Day 19.. I do a 25% WC with 5 teaspoons of salt, 1/4 tbs of Prazi, capful of Stability & 4ml of Prime.. right???

Day 20.. I do a 25% WC with 5 teaspoons of salt, 1/4 tbs of Prazi, capful of Stability & 4ml of Prime..

Day 21.. I do a 25% WC with 5 teaspoons of salt, 1/4 tbs of Prazi, capful of Stability & 4ml of Prime..

 

 

But it gets confusing here because you say at the end to:

"use 0.1% salt (one teaspoon per gallon) and the recommended dose (not doubled) of prazi (on the days when you are using prazi) and just 0.1 salt on the days with no prazi"

 

Which are the days "with no prazi"..?? Im in the understanding that Im using Prazi until the day 21, right? (or not?).. then what happen ?

:hummm

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