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Lady_Dodecagon

Buster Has Popeye. :(

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HI there!!  So I know it's been ages since I have been on here and I know that there are tons of new faces but I have an old school problem.

 

I have a betta that has developed a sudden case of popeye, as in Friday he was fine and Saturday his right eye was popped way out and cloudy.  I did a 100% water change immediately, and planned to get epsom salts and meds on Sunday but we had an ice storm and there was no going to the fishy store for me.

 

Another 100% water change was done Sunday, and yesterday after work I made it to the store to get the epsom salts and Maracyn Plus.

 

Last night I did a 100% water change and dosed with epsom salts at a rate of 2 tsp/gallon.  I want to start with the meds tonight, but I don't remember if they have to be given at half dose or full dose since I remember bettas are sensitive.  And, if I start with the Maracyn plus, do I need to stop the ES and do I still keep up the daily 100% WC and just re-dose?

 

I have a three gallon tank with a heater that keeps the water at about 74°.  Right now I only have two gallons in there to make the daily water changes easier becase I have to carry the tank upstairs from my downstairs desk.

 

Thanks!!

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Welcome back and I hope your Betta feels better!!!!

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Thanks.  He's not eating today and just hangingn around in his fave plant.  That's why I want to get info on the meds, but don't want to end up hurting him by doing an OD.  :(

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I would give him epsom salt baths. Also, try adding some API Stress Coat to the tank water.

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I'm using Jungle Start Right, and usually a little shot of Prime.

Still waiting on tonight's WC because I'm not sure of the Maracyn Plus dosing.  :/  Internet searches turn up nothing, so I guess I'll just go by label directions and see what happens.

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I say add Stress Coat because it always helps my fish heal faster, rather than using other dechlorinators.

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Thanks.  He's not eating today and just hangingn around in his fave plant.  That's why I want to get info on the meds, but don't want to end up hurting him by doing an OD.  :(

Our general recommendation for Epsom Salt is 1/4 to 1/2 Teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, so your dosage is really high.

 

I though Maracyn Plus had been discontinued long ago?  Did you check the expiration date?

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Can you also fill out this form to the best of your ability?

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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Thanks.  He's not eating today and just hangingn around in his fave plant.  That's why I want to get info on the meds, but don't want to end up hurting him by doing an OD.  :(

Our general recommendation for Epsom Salt is 1/4 to 1/2 Teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, so your dosage is really high.

 

I though Maracyn Plus had been discontinued long ago?  Did you check the expiration date?

 

 

 

I agree - I can't believe I didn't catch this. I've heard 2 tsp/gallon for baths, but not tank dosage.

Edited by Kiara

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I got my Epsom salt info here:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=80198

 

The bottle of Maracyn Plus I have expired 08/14/14, and I just bought it yesterday!  The store had a shelf full, so I guess they didn't know.  I'll be sure to tell them about it, and quite possibly return this bottle.  I didn't even think to look for that before I purchased it.

 

Update:

Tonight while I had him in a cup while I did the water change he ate for me, and he took four pellets of his Omega One Betta Buffet.  That made me happy, since I haven't seen him eat in 48 hours.  I put the Maracyn Plus in at label directions of 1ml/gallon and the Epsom Salts back at the 2 tsp/gallon. 

 

As far as the requested water quality info, since I'm doing 100% daily water changes none of the tank values will apply.  From the tap my Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites are very low (dip strips ATM, gotta get another liquid test kit) and my pH is running around 6.5.  Buster is the only fish in the three gallon tank, and it was getting weekly 100% water changes until this happened on Saturday night, now it has been daily.  I have an in-tank heater and the water stays around 74°F.  I have had him for about four months now if I recall correctly with no problems until now.

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So the fish store had tetracycline in powder, when I take the Maracyn Plus back tomorrow does anyone know the dosage for that?  I believe it was in pouches, and each pouch did 10 gallons.  The reason I went with Maracyn plus was it's wide spectrum and liquid, so easier to dose with a graduated syringe.  :/

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I got my Epsom salt info here:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=80198

 

The bottle of Maracyn Plus I have expired 08/14/14, and I just bought it yesterday!  The store had a shelf full, so I guess they didn't know.  I'll be sure to tell them about it, and quite possibly return this bottle.  I didn't even think to look for that before I purchased it.

 

Update:

Tonight while I had him in a cup while I did the water change he ate for me, and he took four pellets of his Omega One Betta Buffet.  That made me happy, since I haven't seen him eat in 48 hours.  I put the Maracyn Plus in at label directions of 1ml/gallon and the Epsom Salts back at the 2 tsp/gallon. 

 

As far as the requested water quality info, since I'm doing 100% daily water changes none of the tank values will apply.  From the tap my Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites are very low (dip strips ATM, gotta get another liquid test kit) and my pH is running around 6.5.  Buster is the only fish in the three gallon tank, and it was getting weekly 100% water changes until this happened on Saturday night, now it has been daily.  I have an in-tank heater and the water stays around 74°F.  I have had him for about four months now if I recall correctly with no problems until now.

I don't think using expired medicine is advisable.  I would do a 100% water change, return the Maracyn Plus and exchange it for regular Maracyn (erythromycin) which is good for eye infections.

 

We can't really give you an accurate diagnosis and treatment advice without the form answers, especially the exact water parameters.  What is "very low"?  I'm asking because Popeye is usually caused by a water quality problem.  Do you have a cycled filter on the tank?  What water conditioner do you use?

 

A picture or video would also be helpful :)

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What water conditioner do you use?

 

I'm using Jungle Start Right, and usually a little shot of Prime.

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Jared,

Very low as in not showing on the dip strips or not making enough of a change to measure.  LFS tested tap and tank water from my 30 gallon tropical for me and parameters were fine.  I plan on returning the Maracyn Plus as mentioned in my post above, and asked about dosage for tetracycline since it was a highly recommended med by the fish guy at the store, but he couldn't tell me dosage because he keeps large tropical tanks.

 

I do not need a diagnosis because I already have one since it's quite obviously popeye.  I opened the thread for questions about meds with Epsom salts and water change frequency while using the two in tandem.  I have posted all the tank information, jsut browse through the posts themselves.  I obviously do not have a cycled filter on the tank because I am doing 100% weekly water changes on a normal basis.  With popeye being a water quality problem (this I already knew as well) I will be stepping that up a notch or two, but for now my focus is getting Buster to feeling better.  I have kept fish of various types for years, and believe me this isn't my first sick fishie.  It's been four or five years since I have had a betta and I just don't remember the information I used to know by heart when I was more active with goldies and betta tanks.

 

I'm not trying to attack you or seem like I'm going on the uber defensive, but you are asking me newbie questions and I have already given the relavent information in previous posts.

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Please understand that these are not "Newbie" questions.  We have a certain protocol that we follow with "all" disease threads.  It is not meant to insult you or encumber you, but to help us see the big picture and give you the most informed advice that we possibly can.  

 

As for the Tetracycline, we do not generally recommend it as many bacteria have become resistant to it due to overuse.  However, it "may" work.  

 

Many people on the Forum do 100% water changes once a week even with a cycled filter, so I think that was a valid question.  It was just to provide insight into your tank cycle.  

 

It seems that you are inclined to follow the advice of the guy at the LFS which is fine.  Maybe he can advise you on the dosage of Epsom, because we don't use the high dose you sited.  Just remember that that is the store that sold you expired medicine.

 

I wish your fish a speedy recovery :)

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I remember the protocol, I was a very active member on these forums a few years ago and was a mod for a while as well.  This is why I tried to give as informative of an OP as I could with very clear, concise questions (or at least I thought so).  Thanks for nothing except helping me realize my meds are expired, and I guess I will continue my search for assistance with this topic using other resources.

 

Have a great night.

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I remember the protocol, I was a very active member on these forums a few years ago and was a mod for a while as well.  This is why I tried to give as informative of an OP as I could with very clear, concise questions (or at least I thought so).  Thanks for nothing except helping me realize my meds are expired, and I guess I will continue my search for assistance with this topic using other resources.

 

Have a great night.

 

What are you going to do for your boy? My CT girl had severe pop eye for a long time. I gave her epsom salt baths (even though I was told to give her daily 100% water changes and then add 3tsp/gallon of epsom salt - I thought it was a waste of salt) and her eyes returned to normal. I actually read from many different sources that Tetracycline helps pop eye greatly. Either that or a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn-Two because they fight both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. I would try to get the Tetracycline and follow dosing procedures on the package or ask people on BF.

 

Another thing that is said to work is Ampicillin.

 

Best of luck!! :)

 

Here's my girl, Nyx, when she had pop eye.

 

http://www.bettafish.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=306914&stc=1&d=1393803328

Edited by Kiara

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I remember the protocol, I was a very active member on these forums a few years ago and was a mod for a while as well.  This is why I tried to give as informative of an OP as I could with very clear, concise questions (or at least I thought so).  Thanks for nothing except helping me realize my meds are expired, and I guess I will continue my search for assistance with this topic using other resources.

 

Have a great night.

I was really just trying to help you and meant no offense.  I have reported this thread to the others on the Moderating Team.  Hopefully, one of them can help answer your questions :)

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Okay, I got some feedback.  They say that the Maracyn Plus should be okay even though it has expired.  Apparently, the concern is more with the "cycline" type antibiotics which degrade and become toxic.  So, if you go with the Tetracycline, just make sure the expiration date is good. 

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I remember the protocol, I was a very active member on these forums a few years ago and was a mod for a while as well.  This is why I tried to give as informative of an OP as I could with very clear, concise questions (or at least I thought so).  Thanks for nothing except helping me realize my meds are expired, and I guess I will continue my search for assistance with this topic using other resources.

 

Have a great night.

 

 

Lady_D Im sorry you are feeling this way.. Jared was just doing his job hun and trying to make sure he had all the information before helping you... Yes things have changed since you where here, We trying to make sure we have all information covered before we offer help. Reason ppl dont give everything and then we suggest stuff and walla we got a problem for example some meds dont work well in low PH... Jared wasnt trying to be rude or thing.....

 

Im sorry your fish is sick, we were just trying to help.

 

koko

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Tonight I returned the expired Maracyn Plus and picked up the tetracycline.  We checked the date on the remaining Maracyn Plus they had in stock and they pulled it because those dates were December 2014.  I double checked the date on the tetracycline before even walking to the front to check out, it's good until 2016.

 

Kiara, I wondered myself why do daily water changes with Epsom Salt.  It's not being pulled out of the water, and it doesn't seem like the water would go south if doing every other day changes at 100%.  Plus, most of the meds require a longer time in between water changes so IDK.  :/

 

About to do my 100% water change to get rid of the Maracyn Plus and add the tetracycline with the Epsom salts.  I took a pic the night before last with my cell phone, and I'll poke the links up here for you.  IDK if they will work since they are facebook URLs, but if not I can crack open the ol' photobucket.  :)

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152729708659075&l=8d1857a01f

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152729708629075&l=6d482e9aec

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I can't see the pictures Lady_D :idont  

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Tonight I returned the expired Maracyn Plus and picked up the tetracycline.  We checked the date on the remaining Maracyn Plus they had in stock and they pulled it because those dates were December 2014.  I double checked the date on the tetracycline before even walking to the front to check out, it's good until 2016.

 

Kiara, I wondered myself why do daily water changes with Epsom Salt.  It's not being pulled out of the water, and it doesn't seem like the water would go south if doing every other day changes at 100%.  Plus, most of the meds require a longer time in between water changes so IDK.  :/

 

About to do my 100% water change to get rid of the Maracyn Plus and add the tetracycline with the Epsom salts.  I took a pic the night before last with my cell phone, and I'll poke the links up here for you.  IDK if they will work since they are facebook URLs, but if not I can crack open the ol' photobucket.  :)

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152729708659075&l=8d1857a01f

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152729708629075&l=6d482e9aec

 

Nope, can't see it. Are you grabbing the URL or the IMG URL?

 

Anyway, best of luck with everything! I just don't understand the logic of people sometimes. I just put in a pinch of epsom salt per gallon and then I don't do water changes for a week. Afterwards, I do daily 100% water changes to try and keep the water immaculate since the epsom salt drains fluids out of the body.

 

I hope the best for your boy! Pop eye sucks because there can be so many different factors for why it popped up. If the tetracycline doesn't work, then try to keep up with the daily or bi-daily 100% water changes. This will keep his water clean and help him fight off infection. Pop eye can takes weeks to get rid of, so that's the sucky part about it. Another thing, if it's available, is the Maracyn-I and Maracyn-II combo. I know that's hard, though, seeing as how it's so expensive. I remember spending roughly $20 for a tiny bottle of PraziPro and I only used a little bit of it. Even now, I still have it and I haven't had to use it. It doesn't have an expiration date onto it, so I'm hoping it stays good. I just don't want to throw away an expensive bottle of medication unless if I know it doesn't work or will actually be harmful to the fish.

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Let's try through Photobucket.  I clicked the FB pics and selected get link, but there might be some privacy settings that aren't letting it work.

 

2015-01-19%2020.26.12.jpg

 

2015-01-19%2020.26.45.jpg

 

Tetracycline is in, I used the test tubes from my liquid master test kit to divide the 10 gallon treatment packet out into four equal parts (each tube treats 2-1/2 gallons) and will be following the package directions for the next few days.  I have the ES back in there as well.  He didn't eat tonight, but I'm not really concerned since he ate so much last night.  He was swimming around a bit during the water change, and now he's lounging near his favorite plant.  Fingers crossed this helps!  If not my next shot will be Maracyn and Maracyn 2 combo.

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Oooh!  Is tetracycline light reactive?  Should I keep the lights off?  I don't remember.  :(

Thanks!

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