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Johnnyonthespot

Butterfly Telescope Eye Shrunk, Wobbling

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Epsom salt for just two weeks. Let us know how it is going at the end of those two weeks.

For adjusting the kh and gh, you'll just add the baking soda and gh booster at the beginning of when you put in new water (at the same time I put in Prime). I mix my baking soda and gh booster together, then pour into tank just before I put in new water. The baking soda is dissolved, but the gh booster is not totally dissolved. The undissolved gh booster does not harm the fish. My fish eat it and spit it out. Then do it over and over again until they bore of doing it. Eventually all the gh booster dissolves.

Once you are done with the Epsom salt, you'll need to adjust how much gh booster to put in.

Does this makes sense?

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As for the air stone, I think your idea is a good one, but the flow rate of your filters may be low.

You should have 10x gph of your tank. That should be 290 gph. Your biowheel is rated 150 gph. I dont know about your other filter.

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Thanks for the advice.  Yep, everything makes sense.  

 

I plan on upgrading the filters soon to a bigger, single unit.  Just need to figure out which.

 

Thanks everyone!  Gabby seems stable, hoping she pulls out of this ok.  Eye is still attached.

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This morning, she wasn't doing too well.  When I woke up, she was trying to wedge between the glass and a potted plant, which she's never done and is incredibly weird.  I put her in my oversized net to move her to the other side of the tank to feed her and she kind of went limp and sideways in the net.  Dropped her off and she couldn't get her normal portions in her mouth, ended up cutting one in half and luckily she got that whole piece down after 10 minutes or so.  She was swimming a bit after that but didn't look too energetic.  I think she was eating the Equalizer, because I saw some white rocks in her poop.  Who knows.  She's also lying down and leaning towards the good eye, which could just be a weight distribution thing.  Hopefully she's ok when I get home, not sure what else I can do for her at this point.

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When a fish tries to wedge themselves, they are trying to get support to be held because they are weak from something.

 

How are her fins?

 

Have you ever treated your fish for flukes?

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When a fish tries to wedge themselves, they are trying to get support to be held because they are weak from something.

 

How are her fins?

 

Have you ever treated your fish for flukes?

 

Interesting.  She is definitely weak.  Fins are ok I guess, nothing out of the ordinary.  Her dorsal is missing a bit at the front, and her tail has had a small rip in it for a few months now that refuses to heal completely.

 

If Prazi treats flukes, yes. 

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Can you tell me when you did last the prazi treatment and what was the protocol?

 

How long has the Epsom salt been in the tank now?

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It was at least a year ago. I don't remember the protocol, it was in the thread where I was told to do it but it doesn't seem to exist anymore. If that thread exists anywhere I could tell ya.

I've been doing epsom since Monday. Did a 70% change yesterday.

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Do you remember the number of times you applied prazi during the treatment? 2, 4, 6 times?

 

How is her poop? Color, length, etc.

Edited by LisaCGold

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I wish I did but I have no idea.  I want to say I did a 4 week cycle.  Poop is hard to tell, I don't see it come out too often and her's gets mixed with Bernie's.  Like I said earlier, some were a bit rocky looking, looking like she ate some Equalizer.

 

I found the old thread.  I did 5 rounds of Prazi summer of 2011.  Looks like I dosed her summer of 2012, as well.  I could have sworn I did one last year but I don't have it documented.

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot

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Okay, let me consult with the moderators....

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Thanks for the advice.  Yep, everything makes sense.  

 

I plan on upgrading the filters soon to a bigger, single unit.  Just need to figure out which.

 

Thanks everyone!  Gabby seems stable, hoping she pulls out of this ok.  Eye is still attached.

Oh yeah, before I forget. I like having multiple filters on my tank, so if one goes out (which they do) the other one is there doing the work.

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I've sent a report to the moderators. In the meantime, have you given her any probiotics? Do you have a QT tank?

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Another question: what antibiotics do you have on hand?

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I don't think I've given any probiotics, but I'm also not 100% sure what constitutes one.  I have a small 5 gallon QT tank.

 

I have on hand: Maracyn I&II, Prazi Pro, Metro Meds, Medi Gold, Jungle AP & BP, Melafix and Pimafix.  

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I just read through the whole thread. Have you used Metro Meds on her before? I don't see anything about that in your thread. I'll review the meds with the moderators. I remember you writing that you have a great lfs relatively close to you in case the mods recommend something else.

 

Can you get a 10 gallon food safe plastic tub with an airstone?

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That's persistence haha, holy crap.  I did use the MMs on her before, that's actually what knocked out what was ailing for her almost a year, ended up doing about 3 months worth to eventually knock it out for good. 

 

I have an excellent LFS a few miles away, but their medication section isn't well stocked right now, checked tonight.  I can pick up anything on Amazon, at least.

 

I could get that, but I'd be inclined to treat them both since he likely has whatever she has at this point.  I feel a lot better about having her in the bigger tank, plus he lays with her when she doesn't feel well, which is absolutely the sweetest thing.  They love eachother haha.  But if it's necessary, I can. 

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Okay, I've reported to the moderators the meds you have on hand. Stay tuned for that...

 

As for using a separate tank, fish do watch out for each other like that. It is so sweet to see. From my perspective it is love.

 

Since your black tele is not currently presenting with any problems, it would not be a good idea to give him any antibiotics. We at Koko's recommend not giving fish antibiotics when they are not presenting with any symptoms because doing so may result in developing a resistance to useful antibiotics. You may have read in the news about the problem of antibiotic resistant bacteria in humans. This is one the reason why it is not so easy to get a prescription for antibiotics from your doctor these days. Antibiotic resistant bacteria can occur for fish also.

 

In the meantime, since you make Repashy, can you get some probiotics and put that in the mix? Here is one that is fish specific (it is one that I use): http://www.amazon.com/MitoFish-Pediococcus-Probiotics-Prebiotics-Capsules/dp/B003NGS3XY/ref=sr_1_5?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1421116244&sr=1-5&keywords=fish+probiotics

 

You can probably just use a probiotic made for humans. Many people on Koko's do that.

 

When you mix the probiotics into the gel, you'll need to cool the gel down a bit so that it doesn't render the probiotics useless. I do this by stirring the mixture (after it has been heated) and gently blowing on it to keep it from hardening up. You need to get temp down below 140F if you use the MitoFish product. I just do a touch test - my hot water tank is set to 140F. You can feed this gel to your black tele for now. I would not feed this to the other tele until after treatment.

 

The probiotics will help to repopulate your fish's gut with beneficial bacteria that help to break down their food and to help their immune system.

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Please post a video of your tele. That will help us to figure out what to recommend.

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Alrighty, I can order that and whip up a new batch, no problem.  Hopefully I can keep the stinkin' gel from cooling; it typically does it in under 10 seconds.  So that'll be tricky haha.  We'll see.  Is there any ratio I'm looking for specifically or will it be on the bottle?

 

As for Gabby, she's looking better.  She's swimming around more and ate a whole pea.  Hoping for the best.  I'll get that video asap.  I genuinely think she ate the Equalizer. 

 

Also I tested gH and kH, gH at 179, kH at 125.3.  I attribute that to the continuous epsom salt.  I know to add more baking soda at changes now, no biggie.  Uploading a video now.

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot

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Up the quality to 1080p, if you can.

 

I'll say this, she is a sitter, so while concerning, it's not a death sentence with her.  She'll sit for hours, always has.  Also she's taking a pretty normal looking poop right now.  (Fish make you say weird things)

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot

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Alrighty, I can order that and whip up a new batch, no problem.  Hopefully I can keep the stinkin' gel from cooling; it typically does it in under 10 seconds.  So that'll be tricky haha.  We'll see.  Is there any ratio I'm looking for specifically or will it be on the bottle?

 

As for Gabby, she's looking better.  She's swimming around more and ate a whole pea.  Hoping for the best.  I'll get that video asap.  I genuinely think she ate the Equalizer. 

 

Also I tested gH and kH, gH at 179, kH at 125.3.  I attribute that to the continuous epsom salt.  I know to add more baking soda at changes now, no biggie.  Uploading a video now.

 

When I make the gel, I don't boil it for very long at all, so I get more than 10 seconds before it hardens. Maybe you can heat it a little less to give you more time. For one pill, I would use two tablespoons of the Repashy powder with the appropriate amount of water (6 tablespoons). Dissolve the pill in a small amount of warm water beforehand, Remove the pill casing and then dump the dissolved contents into the mixture while stirring. Dab some of the mixture behind your ear like you would your cologne. Just kidding :teehee Just feed that mixture to your black tele for now.

 

I'm not concerned that she ate the equalizer, but may be as it passed through it was a bit tough for her. Maybe just crush the equalizer as well as you can before you mix it.

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Okay, I conferred with the moderators.

Since she has bottom sat and periodically floated for quite some time, there is most likely nothing to do medicine wise.

You can feed her the repashy soilent green with probiotics. That will help her gut to digest better and it will help her immune system. That will make her stronger.

Once the two weeks of Epsom salt is over give us an update.

In the long run, if her bottom sitting and floating get worse, you can put the two of them in an indoor pond where the water depth is shallower. Fish with swim bladder issues usually navigate better in shallower water.

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I missed this: Have you tried fasting her for a couple of days?

Also, mix the equilibrium several hours or a day ahead to give it time to dissolve.

Edited by LisaCGold

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So I got the pills in today and attempted to make the gel.  I have NO idea if it took or was too hot, I waited like 20 seconds and stirred it in and it dissolved immediately.  No way of knowing, either, so I guess I can just hope it took.  

 

I've fasted her multiple times in the past few months just to rule that out.  

 

Thanks for all the help!  I'll post updates as they happen. She's off the Epsom next Sunday.

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