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Lettest is sick with dropsy. I'm treating him the best I can, but he's deteriorating. Please help.


bagh

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First of all, I want to thank Kokos Forum for keeping my account active, even when I was inactive for months. A big thanks to you, admins and mods, for this.

 

Lettest, my 8 year-old oranda had been fine, just a bit lazy since earlier this year (maybe because of old age,) until on 26th of December, I found him bloating up. In summer, I keep the temperature of my aquarium constant at 25 degrees Centigrade, by cooling, but I let it fall to 21 degrees this winter (over the course of one month), because I read somewhere that Goldfishes like seasonal variations. Maybe that is the reason why Lettest fell ill, and I'm beating myself up for it every moment.

 

Anyway, I immediately transferred him to the hospital tank, and started treating him with Metronidazole, as Helen taught me in 2012 (thus saving my Oranda Damien.) But the procedure I adapted is somewhat different this time. Since Lettest eats very infrequently, or very late after giving him food, the Metronidazole-soaked food gets diluted by the water, and I have no option, other than squirting Metronidazole into his mouth by a syringe or a dropper. He weighs 65 grams, and so I administer him with carefully measured 0.4 mg of Metronidazole twice daily.

 

I was hopeful he'd make a full recovery, but he seems to be deteriorating. He has developed black stripes and spots all over his body. I feel so depressed about him. I've raised him since he was a fry back in 2006, and you know can understand how much attached I've grown to him.

 

Please help.

 

I've made a video recording his progress. Please have a look at it.

 

 

I can't find the form I used to fill up back in the olden days of the forum; the form which asked for various parametres. I'm writing the parametres of the hospital tank to the best of my knowledge here:

 

Tank: 50 litres.

Temperature: 27-28 degrees centigrade.

Ammonia: Very faint, almost undetected.

Nitrate, Nitrite: Zero.

Water changed: Every 48 hours.

Filtration: Top filter with a slow motor to prevent turbulence.

Additives: Epsom salt at 1/2 teaspoon for the 50 litres.

Lettest's treatment history: Thrice for fungus with Neutralised Flavin (2009-2013), 3rd Gen Antibiotic for lesions in 2012.

Being fed: Shelled, cooked peas, broccoli, Hikari Goldfish Staple; twice a day. He eats very little like he's done for the past year.

 

 

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So sorry to hear about Lettest.  What a gorgeous fish. 

 

What form of metronidazole do you have?  Is it powdered or ?

 

Do you have access to any other medications such as triple sulfa?  We usually like to use both metro and another antibiotic when treating dropsy.

 

I honestly do not think the change in temperature caused this so don't be so hard on yourself.  :D

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So sorry to hear about Lettest.  What a gorgeous fish. 

 

What form of metronidazole do you have?  Is it powdered or ?

 

Do you have access to any other medications such as triple sulfa?  We usually like to use both metro and another antibiotic when treating dropsy.

 

I honestly do not think the change in temperature caused this so don't be so hard on yourself.  :D

 

Thank you so much for the lovely response! :) The Metronidazole is in powdered form. I made it by crushing Metronidazole tablets. When I add it in water, it takes a suspension form, and I found this is the best way of treating fishes with antibiotics. The liquid form available in the market overdosed my fish once, and I never used it since.

 

As for triple sulfa, it's not available here, I'm afraid. Only the ointment forms. :/ Is there any other antibiotic I can use?

Thanks again! :)

 

 

Edited by bagho
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Kanamycin, oxytetracycline or Romet are other options if they are available. 

 

We often treat with powdered metro added to the water that's why I was asking.  I'm wondering if perhaps this would be another option so he would be exposed to it 24/7 rather than dosed twice per day . . . . I'm really not sure, just thinking "out loud".

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Kanamycin, oxytetracycline or Romet are other options if they are available. 

 

We often treat with powdered metro added to the water that's why I was asking.  I'm wondering if perhaps this would be another option so he would be exposed to it 24/7 rather than dosed twice per day . . . . I'm really not sure, just thinking "out loud".

Thank you for the suggestion! Alright, so I'll dissolve Metronidazole in the water, and feed him Kanamycin. How many milligrams do I need for the 50 litres of water?

 

Another question, you might have noticed Lettest developing black streaks all over his body and fins. What is this thing?

Do you think Lettest is too sick to be cured now?

Just asking. I'm just very sad.

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Thanks a bunch, fantailfan, for the wonderful, reassuring reply. I will fight my best for him.

I'll check in on the pharmacy today, if they've got Kanamycin tablets. I'll crush them into powder. Else I'll have to use an alternative. Oxytetracycline, I'm afraid, is resistant for my fishes.

Aww, Lisa, thank you so much! ^_^

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Thinking good thoughts for you and your little one, Sumya.

Sorry if I spelled your name wrong....... It's been a while and I remember it, but don't know if I am right. At any rate, good luck!!

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Well I know the black isn't necrotic tissue. It's melanphore cells responding to some sort of chemical or radiation burn. I've actually only seen that happen with ammonia burns. Perhaps you have a heavy metal in your water? Your fish is obviously having renal trouble. If you could get your hands on some digitalis or Lasix it might buy him some time, give his system a break until he gets over what ever is wrong. The great thing about goldfish is they are very hardy and frequently reach a state of homeostasis without any intervention from us. Your little guy may just take some time and get better. If he gets bad enough I might even hazard feeding him the tiniest bit of foxglove (as a last ditch effort, foxglove could easily kill him without any way to quantify how much digitalis is contained in the sample). Do you know anyone with a heart condition? All you need is one pill of Lasix and some careful math to get a correct dosage for a 45 gram fish.  There are a great many reasons why the kidneys would stop working properly. If your lucky it will be bacterial or protozoan or something your can treat. Do fish get leptospirosis? If you do choose the herbal path I can offer you a large list of plants that contain digitalis that are native to India. It would be very risky though. I have a species of brugmansia (angel trumpet) growing in my garden that you cannot touch after it rains. The toxins in it leach out into the water droplets and the droplets soak into your skin. It can easily put you into a severe psychotic state.

 

 

Even orandas enjoy seasonal changes. letting the tank get that cool has nothing to do with why your fish is sick now. Don't beat yourself up. Were all sending good vibes your way. Peace be with you and your goldfish. OH! try feeding him some bits of licorice root. It's an effective diuretic and would be safe.

 

Glenn

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hi Bagho... nice to see you back, even under these circumstances.

 

do you have Epsom salt at all? perhaps we can get him some relief by attempting to resolve the fluid retention he's displaying? if you have it, i would dissolve 1/2 teaspoon for every 10 gallons.. add it as soon as you can.

 

good luck :)

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Thanks a bunch for the good luck you sent my way. This is the best I like about this forum; you sending healing vibes, and messages of hope when we think we've lost it, and restore our faith that everything will be fine. Thanks so much, Dan, Fish of gold, Heidi.

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Thank you so much for so much of great information, Glenn. It was awesome indeed. As you said, I'll keep Furosemide tablets handy in case things get worse. I hope, I wish it's just a bacterial infection. :( Also I'll feed him some diuretic as you said.

Helen, it's so nice to talk to you again, my wonderful friend. :) I was treating him with Epsom salt at 1/2 teaspoon for 50 litres of water. But he seemed to develop anaemia. He was always near the aeration bubbles. If I moved the bubble stone, he'd move too. So I stopped Epsom salts yesterday. Did I do the right thing?

Edited by bagho
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I personally don't think that concentration of Epsom would cause anemia . . . .

How long was he at that concentration? :idont

Does he look any better?

Yeah, I also think so. I was just over worried and took him out of the Epsom. He was in it for around 7 days. Today he is not at the bubbles. But things look a bit serious or bit hopeful. Not sure, you know. I'm perplexed.

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Also there is something important to say. I reckoned Metronidazole is resistant to him, because he shows hardly any signs of improvement after 6-7 days. A few months ago, a fish from the same aquarium died of dropsy, during a futile treatment with Metronidazole. That fish's bacterial sensitivity test reported that the bacteria was resistant to Metronidazole.

So I have started administering Lettest with Ornidazole, instead of Metronidazole, since the day before yesterday. Also I'm hand feeding him with glucose and sucrose solutions, because he can't eat now. He looked quite energetic yesterday, but today he is titled on his side. Also his left side looks a little less bloated than his right side, making him tilt. Is this hopeful, or signifies deterioration?

 

This is him right now.

 

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bagho, could you do this and let us know your findings.. i too have learned that epsom won't cause anaemia.. and if you can continue to treat since i see a great deal of retained fluids.

 

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Thank you very much for the good wishes, preternaturalism. :)

 

Helen, thanks a lot for the video. I'll do the examination on him and post a video of it. But you know, this evening, I see him totally on his side. And very weak. I do not know what to do now. :cry Please tell me what is happening to him. :(

 

This is him right now. :( Can't bear to look at his pain. :cry

 

 

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hun, the video is private.. 

 

you are doing all that you can for him. sometimes, despite all our efforts, persistent bacteria will be the winner. i have witnessed some of my fish relapse under treatment several times and there was absolutely nothing i could do to prevent their passing. it is unfortunate, but it's reality.

 

find peace within yourself and understand that you are going above and beyond to help him. if it works, great. if not, don't beat yourself up. at least you cared enough to try.  :hug

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hun, the video is private.. 

 

you are doing all that you can for him. sometimes, despite all our efforts, persistent bacteria will be the winner. i have witnessed some of my fish relapse under treatment several times and there was absolutely nothing i could do to prevent their passing. it is unfortunate, but it's reality.

 

find peace within yourself and understand that you are going above and beyond to help him. if it works, great. if not, don't beat yourself up. at least you cared enough to try.  :hug

Oops! I'm sorry, I'm not good with Youtube uploading. Could you please try it now? I've changed the video to unlisted now. :)

And, as always, thank you for being so much healing, even in such difficult times.

Edited by bagho
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hun, the video is private.. 

 

you are doing all that you can for him. sometimes, despite all our efforts, persistent bacteria will be the winner. i have witnessed some of my fish relapse under treatment several times and there was absolutely nothing i could do to prevent their passing. it is unfortunate, but it's reality.

 

find peace within yourself and understand that you are going above and beyond to help him. if it works, great. if not, don't beat yourself up. at least you cared enough to try.  :hug

 

 

I completely agree. 

 

You've done a lot for him and you've given him a great life.  At this point, I don't think there is any more you can do for him.  :(

 

:bighug

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