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misssmountain

White markings on Oranda's tail have me stumped...

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You'll want to make sure your airstone is on full blast in the 25 when you move the filter over to the 60. Melafix treatments require extra oxygen.

 

I moved everyone to the 60 gallon today. I'm going to see how things go for Nacho with fresh water, more space, extra filtration, and salt. They seem pretty pleased with the extra space and have been swimming around like maniacs!

 

The new arrival comes on Wednesday!

 

I will actually have an extra airstone set-up after all, as the one I ordered won't be here in time for the new fish's QT tank, so I have to purchase another one this weekend. So, if things don't improve in a week, I'll be able to easily set-up a second QT tank for Nacho after all. I may try treating with an antibiotic as recommended by the folks shipping my new fish (Neomycin, I think?) depending on how things go.

 

I'll keep you posted, and as always, thank you for your help!

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You'll want to make sure your airstone is on full blast in the 25 when you move the filter over to the 60. Melafix treatments require extra oxygen.

 

Update on Nacho: Her eye is about 75% better! Still a tiny bit of swelling, but for the most part she looks like her normal self again. It's been 3 days since I moved them into the 60, and just FYI, I started with only a 0.1 salt concentration, and never needed to go any higher! I'm guessing this was all just my cue that they needed more space!

 

Her tail is the same -- actually maybe even a little worse. The oldest markings have faded away, but the ones on the middle off her tail are still there. At this point though, they really do look like injuries to me. Not sure how she keeps hurting herself in the same place over and over? It looks like she got caught in the filter intake or something. 

 

Also, she and my male apparently laid eggs while I was at work today! Her pectoral fins are shredded -- I'm assuming from spawning, because they sure didn't look like that this morning. I've never actually seen them spawn, it always happens when I'm not at home, but I've heard they can get pretty banged up (no pun intended...eek!) from the process.

 

Well, hopefully if she's healthy enough to spawn, she's healthy enough to heal up! :) 

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So good to hear that Nacho's eye is doing much better!

 

Cool to hear about the eggs! As for her injured fins, you may need to separate her for a while from the male in order for her fins (caudal and pectoral) to heal and to determine if the fin injuries are just from spawning.

 

Just two more days until your new fish arrives!

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So good to hear that Nacho's eye is doing much better!

 

Cool to hear about the eggs! As for her injured fins, you may need to separate her for a while from the male in order for her fins (caudal and pectoral) to heal and to determine if the fin injuries are just from spawning.

 

Just two more days until your new fish arrives!

 

Hi Lisa (and anyone else reading),

 

Just wanted to write a quick update...

 

The good news: Nacho's eye is all better from the fluid/swelling (I'm a little paranoid it's still not 100% as I noticed a white edge on the back side of her eye today, but it could be just that -- paranoia, LOL), and her pectoral fins are mostly healed from the spawning injuries! And of course she's crazy active and eating well!

 

The bad news: She still has the white marks on her tail, and they seem a bit worse. The ones closest to the edges of the tail fins have faded away and are all gone, but there are quite a few of them still right down the exact middle of her tail. Some almost look "V" shaped -- I would almost describe them as looking like little "notches". Someone on this thread mentioned they might be nothing to worry about, and I would tend to agree, as my male has a couple of similar marks that have always been there (I'd compare them to scars on humans), I'm just not sure though since they've gotten slightly worse? I have scoured the Internet and can't find any cases of anything similar to compare to.

 

Also, her dorsal fin still hasn't healed, and may have eroded just slightly more over the last few weeks (it's certainly not alarmingly worse -- it's definitely been very gradual). This has been torn for a month and a half now, whereas subsequent injuries she's gotten have healed just fine??

 

The 60g is all cycled with the Penguin 200 HOB and the Rena Filstar X3 L. I am at 0.1% salt, and have previously tried PraziPro and a melafix/pimafix combo. I've also had the salt up to 0.3%, but currently it's at 0.1%.

 

A couple more photos are below...not the best, I know. I tried putting her in a separate container for photos, but the tail marks only seem to really be visible under the tank lights.

 

IMG_20150112_210909827_zpsaf752ab8.jpg

 

IMG_20150112_211711792_zps93a3a6ff.jpg

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The black sand looks good! How long was the salt concentration at 0.3% for Nacho?

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The black sand looks good! How long was the salt concentration at 0.3% for Nacho?

 

Thanks! I'm so glad I took the opportunity to switch to sand while I could!

 

About the salt -- I'm actually not sure how long I had it at 0.3%...it's all been kind of a blur between the holidays, and upgrading tanks, etc. I also had to drain the 60g again due to an insane ammonia spike about a week ago (it was right after the spawning...canister still cycling, eggs everywhere, fry hatched and were swimming in the canister -- it was a mess), but luckily everyone pulled through and the cycle bump seems to have worked itself out since then. Anyway, my point is I can't remember exactly when and how long I had the salt level that high, LOL.

 

Shall I bump it up again? 

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I totally understand about the holidays!

 

I recommend putting Nacho in a QT tank and slowly raising the salt concentration from 0.1%, then 12 hours later 0.2%, then 12 hours later to 0.3%. Keep her there for two weeks.

 

Doing this in the 60 gallon will require lots of salt but if there is no choice that would be okay.

 

Also, keep temp in the mid 70's.

Edited by LisaCGold

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I totally understand about the holidays!

 

I recommend putting Nacho in a QT tank and slowly raising the salt concentration from 0.1%, then 12 hours later 0.2%, then 12 hours later to 0.3%. Keep her there for two weeks.

 

Doing this in the 60 gallon will require lots of salt but if there is no choice that would be okay.

 

Also, keep temp in the mid 70's.

 

Bumping this thread...Nacho's dorsal still isn't better, and is possibly slightly worse? I've attached a photo from a few days ago, and it might even be a little worse today (I tried to get photos but she does not stay still!). Remember it's been like this since Thanksgiving time, so going on 3 months, so this has all been pretty gradual, but I do want to get to the bottom of this.

 

The rest of her finnage is beautiful, she is super active, eating like crazy, and even laid eggs a couple of times.

 

So far over the past 2.5 months, I have tried:

 

-PraziPro

-Melafix/Pimafix

-Salt to 0.3%

-API Furan 2 (added to help another fish, which I thought might help Nacho's dorsal as well, but no such luck...)

-and also have gone through periods of nothing added, just clean water

 

Any ideas?? This is driving me nuts!

 

IMG_20150128_010214185_zpsxmla5fli.jpg

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I'm sorry to hear that Nacho's dorsal fin appears to be getting worse.

 

Can you do me a favor? Please fill out the form again (see link below my signature) so we can get a complete picture of the situation. It will make it easier for me and the rest of the moderator team to assess. Thanks!

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I'm sorry to hear that Nacho's dorsal fin appears to be getting worse.

Can you do me a favor? Please fill out the form again (see link below my signature) so we can get a complete picture of the situation. It will make it easier for me and the rest of the moderator team to assess. Thanks!

Here it is. Thank you!

  • Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) - 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) - 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) - 10-20
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) - 0.5
  • *Nitrite Level(Tap) - 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) - 5-10
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 8.0-8.2
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 8.0
  • Other Required Info:

  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? - API Master Kit, drops
  • * Water temperature? - not sure
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? - 60 gallons, about a month and a half
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? - Rena Filstar XP3 Large canister, Penguin 200 HOB
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? - twice a week, 30-40%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? - Saturday, 40%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? - 4: 2 small, 1 medium, 1 large
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? - Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? - Hikari Saki pellets, a few times a day, Peas, about once a week, frozen brine shrimp or bloodworms, several times per week
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? - yes, the largest one, a couple of weeks ago
  • * Any medications added to the tank? - just finished with Furan 3
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. - I had tried 0.3% of salt, but stopped adding that in I'd say 3 or 4 PWC's ago. Not sure if there is any remaining in the water. I also just did a 3-day treatment of Furan 3 by API, to help another fish (and hopefully Nacho, but it didn't). I did the last treatment last Friday, and did a 40% WC and added carbon on Saturday. In their previous tank, I tried prazipro for a few weeks, and then a treatment of melafix and pimafix, but neither did anything to help the torn fin.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? - just the dorsal...one of the tail markings is still visible, but the rest seem to have faded considerably
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? - nope, she is eating like a pig and as active as can be
Edited by misssmountain

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How long did you do the 0.3% salt treatment? How many rounds of prazi did you do in the prazipro treatment?

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How long did you do the 0.3% salt treatment? How many rounds of prazi did you do in the prazipro treatment?

I think 4 or 5 rounds of prazipro...this was back in November. And salt I added when you last advised me on January 13, and stopped adding it last week, so about 2 weeks almost exactly.

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How long did you do the 0.3% salt treatment? How many rounds of prazi did you do in the prazipro treatment?

 

Hmm...so here is something new as of sometime today. My black oranda has white marks on her dorsal, similar to the ones Nacho has been having come and go on her tail. They are white, almost kind of V-shaped, not raised or fuzzy or anything.

 

Should I consider revisiting the PraziPro? Does this look fluke-y to anyone, or is it something else? (This is the best I could do on the photos for now -- I know they're not the best, but these guys don't make it very easy!)

 

IMG_20150204_012037766_zpscgcv6cok.jpg

IMG_20150204_011335160_zpsbxmbfdlg.jpg

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Which of these fish is the new fish?  Did you QT the new fish?  If so for how long and did you treat it with anything before adding it to the main tank? 

 

When you did the rounds of prazi, what % salt did you do them?

 

Also, do you mean Furan 2?  not Furan 3?  :idont

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Which of these fish is the new fish?  Did you QT the new fish?  If so for how long and did you treat it with anything before adding it to the main tank? 

 

When you did the rounds of prazi, what % salt did you do them?

 

Also, do you mean Furan 2?  not Furan 3?  :idont

Neither of these is the new fish. I've had the orange one for almost a year and the black one for 4-5 months.

I did QT on the new one for a week...I know I should have gone a little longer. I just did salt in QT.

When I did prazi before, I did 0.1% salt.

And yes, furan 2.

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Can you remind us what you used the furan 2 for? We just want to make sure that what we recommend won't somehow affect the fish you were treating with furan 2.

Edited by LisaCGold

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Can you remind us what you used the furan 2 for? We just want to make sure that what we recommend won't somehow affect the fish you were treating with furan 2.

The new fish was bottom sitting, labored breathing, losing weight in his wen, and was generally very lethargic and not looking good. I posted a thread here, but didn't get any response, so I turned to my local LFS/goldfish specialty store who told me to do the furan 2. He said it may have been some kind of bacteria infection. I'm honestly not sure what exactly was wrong, but I put my faith in the guy at the goldfish store, and as it turned out, the new fish seems perfectly healthy now...just need to work on gaining back his wen...I'm sorry I don't have any more specifics :(

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Can you remind us what you used the furan 2 for? We just want to make sure that what we recommend won't somehow affect the fish you were treating with furan 2.

The new fish was bottom sitting, labored breathing, losing weight in his wen, and was generally very lethargic and not looking good. I posted a thread here, but didn't get any response, so I turned to my local LFS/goldfish specialty store who told me to do the furan 2. He said it may have been some kind of bacteria infection. I'm honestly not sure what exactly was wrong, but I put my faith in the guy at the goldfish store, and as it turned out, the new fish seems perfectly healthy now...just need to work on gaining back his wen...I'm sorry I don't have any more specifics :(

 

Can you post a picture of what his wen looks like right now?

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Can you remind us what you used the furan 2 for? We just want to make sure that what we recommend won't somehow affect the fish you were treating with furan 2.

The new fish was bottom sitting, labored breathing, losing weight in his wen, and was generally very lethargic and not looking good. I posted a thread here, but didn't get any response, so I turned to my local LFS/goldfish specialty store who told me to do the furan 2. He said it may have been some kind of bacteria infection. I'm honestly not sure what exactly was wrong, but I put my faith in the guy at the goldfish store, and as it turned out, the new fish seems perfectly healthy now...just need to work on gaining back his wen...I'm sorry I don't have any more specifics :(

 Can you post a picture of what his wen looks like right now?

I'll have to get those later, I'm at work right now. He looks good though, just experienced some general shrinkage. No sores or anything super scary, thankfully. And he has been doing great.

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Can you remind us what you used the furan 2 for? We just want to make sure that what we recommend won't somehow affect the fish you were treating with furan 2.

The new fish was bottom sitting, labored breathing, losing weight in his wen, and was generally very lethargic and not looking good. I posted a thread here, but didn't get any response, so I turned to my local LFS/goldfish specialty store who told me to do the furan 2. He said it may have been some kind of bacteria infection. I'm honestly not sure what exactly was wrong, but I put my faith in the guy at the goldfish store, and as it turned out, the new fish seems perfectly healthy now...just need to work on gaining back his wen...I'm sorry I don't have any more specifics :(

 

Can you post a picture of what his wen looks like right now?

 

,

I came home from work to find that the markings have faded out...I can still see them a little, but they're more greyish and blotchy, and generally just look like they're fading away. I'll try for photos tomorrow if they're not completely gone by then...

 

What the heck is this??? 

 

I'm doing a big routine WC tomorrow...would it hurt at all to do a few rounds of PraziPro/Salt? I stopped into my LFS goldfish place on my way home, and the guy there wasn't too sure either. He was familiar with the PP/salt rounds, and seemed to think it was worth a try.

 

Could skin flukes possibly be the culprit for Nacho's torn dorsal fin that won't heal and is very gradually getting worse?

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We have a recommendation for you that involves salt dips and Prazi/salt in the tank. But before I post the details on the recommendation, we need a good photo of the fish's wen. I want to make sure what we recommend wont adversely affect this fish.

Yes, the problem is most likely flukes. You did some Prazi treatments, but the routine was probably not sufficient to reduce the fluke load enough. The one week quarantine of the new fish may have also contributed to the fluke load. Usually qt is for four weeks with at least four rounds of Prazi and 0.3% salt for two of those weeks.

Edited by LisaCGold

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We have a recommendation for you that involves salt dips and Prazi/salt in the tank. But before I post the details on the recommendation, we need a good photo of the fish's wen. I want to make sure what we recommend wont adversely affect this fish.

Yes, the problem is most likely flukes. You did some Prazi treatments, but the routine was probably not sufficient to reduce the fluke load enough. The one week quarantine of the new fish may have also contributed to the fluke load. Usually qt is for four weeks with at least four rounds of Prazi and 0.3% salt for two of those weeks.

 

Not sure if any of these qualify as "good," LOL...I wish I had an actual camera rather than just a smartphone.

 

I'm eager to hear the details of the recommendation, and a HUGE thank you in advance.

 

Providing you will be recommending rounds of PP, in case this makes a difference: I looked over the schedules for the 5 and 7 day rounds, and the 7 day rounds I think would work best for me and my schedule. Also, I will be out of town for just a few days next week...if one treatment has to be done one day before it's scheduled, will that be okay? I will have a friend stopping by to give them some food and make sure the filters are running, but she won't be able to do a WC.

 

IMG_20150204_221611531_zps0spg16qf.jpg

IMG_20150204_221644641_HDR_zps5g2nk3rp.j

IMG_20150204_221749514_HDR_zpszxa15m3h.j

Edited by misssmountain

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We have a recommendation for you that involves salt dips and Prazi/salt in the tank. But before I post the details on the recommendation, we need a good photo of the fish's wen. I want to make sure what we recommend wont adversely affect this fish.

Yes, the problem is most likely flukes. You did some Prazi treatments, but the routine was probably not sufficient to reduce the fluke load enough. The one week quarantine of the new fish may have also contributed to the fluke load. Usually qt is for four weeks with at least four rounds of Prazi and 0.3% salt for two of those weeks.

 

One more...compared to the photos from last week when he wasn't doing so hot, I can actually see it fleshing back out...lots of Hikari Saki, Bloodworms, and Brine Shrimp!

 

IMG_20150204_223130605_HDR_zpsfmu6epz5.j

Edited by misssmountain

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I want your fish! It is so cute! I'll post the recommendation in a moment.

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Okay, here it is. I'm heading off to bed now. I'll check in the morning to see what questions you have.

 

In order to lower the fluke load to a tolerable level, this is what we recommend.

 

Day 1 – big water change (>=75%), put double dose prazi and 0.3% salt in main tank (see below on how to put the 0.3% salt in the tank), and salt dip the two fish who are showing symptoms (see salt dip information below).

Day 2 – just monitor water and fish

Day 3 – salt dip the two fish

Day 4 – just monitor water and fish

Day 5 – big water change (>=75%), replace salt to 0.3%, NO prazi

Day 6-7 – just monitor water and fish

Day 8 – big water change (>=50%), replace salt to 0.3% salt, add double dose of prazi, and salt dip the two fish

Days 7-11 – just monitor water and fish

Day 12 – 100% water change, let us know how the fish are doing (we may recommend for you to continue with prazi and salt)

 

To do the 0.3% salt in the main tank, but all the salt into the end of some pantyhose and hang it in the tank. The salt will slowly dissolve and will not shock the two fish who are not being given a salt dip.

 

Here is the salt dip information (you will do a total of three salt dips for the two fish showing symptoms):

 

SALT DIP
1. dissolve 30 teaspoons salt/gallon of water (30 grams/Liter, or 113.7g/gallon). This concentration is 3%. Let it match the temp/pH of the tank, and make sure to add de-chlorinator. You can also use tank water, but because you are adding a lot of salt per gallon, you will need to heat up the water. Hence, it's crucial that you cool it back down.
2. prepare a holding tank. This is a tank that is pH/temp matched with the main tank, and has been de-chlorinated. This can be a 5 gallon tub, with bubblestone, or something bigger.
3. make sure you have some sort of timer
4. gently lift the fish out of the tank, and place into temp/pH matched salt solution.
5. start timer.
6. if the fish stays continues to stay upright, or tilts over but can get back up, keep him/her in the salt solution for exactly 5 minutes.
7. remove fish from the salt, and place in holding tank. The reason why we do this is to: 1) give the fish a place to recover by him/herself, and 2)to let the fish purge out ammonia/wastes in a place that is not the main tank.
8. if the fish starts to lose balance and cannot get back before the minutes, remove him/her and place in holding tank, as described in #6.
9. after 1-2 hours, the fish can be moved back to the main tank. He/She might still be disoriented, but should be fine.

 

It is a bit weird to watch a goldfish in a salt dip for the first time. In step #6, I had to give my goldfish a gentle pat a couple of times when he went on his side before he could put himself upright.

 

Once the salt and prazi treatment is done, we recommend you up your water changes since the tank is overstocked by one fish. Do two larger water changes per week (>50%).

Edited by LisaCGold

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