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Tvilsen got dropsy....Again.


Guldklumpen

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Hi All.

 

My awesome fantail Tvilsen, is sick with dropsy, once again.

I would like your opinion about what i should do?

 

 

Background info.

Tvilsen is 11½ years old and have had dropsy 3 times before.

First time was August 2010:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/85516-stubborn-popeye/

Last time was August this 2014, not long ago :(

 

Every time i cured it with antibiotic food and epsom salt.

 

She has some swim bladder disease and that makes her lobsided and light in the Water.

But she seems happy and are eating fine.

I can tell she is getting old though.

 

Status.

She is showing dropsy signs, light pineconing and swollen eyes.

I have moved her to QT tub and raised temp slowly to 27 celcius and added Epsom salt.

 

But should i medicate her? (for what?)

 

I have 1+ year old metro meds (worked in August), seachem metronidazole, seachem kanaplex and other meds.

Also i have Repashy gel food mix on hand.

 

Hopefully it is not her time yet, but i know she is not young any more.

She have been with me since the beginning.

 

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Jesper/Guldklumpen

 

 

 

 

 

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I think your Metro Meds are expired and should be thrown away.  Please you fill out the D&D form below so we can give you informed advice:

 

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank)
    • * Nitrate level(Tank)
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
    • * Nitrate level(Tap)
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
      • * Water temperature?
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
      • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
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[*]Ammonia Level? 0 [*]Nitrite Level? 0 [*]Nitrate level? about 40 (tap water is 35 ) [*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?7.6 [*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6 [*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drop [*]Water temperature? 77 F [*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 66 gal, been cycled for years [*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Eheim 2080 [*]How often do you change the water and how much? once a week i change about 50% [*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 goldfish, 9 inches with tail measured [*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? none [*]What do you feed your fish and how often? different types of gelfood, pellets and greens twice a day [*]Any new fish added to the tank? no [*]Any medications added to the tank? no [*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no [*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? as described in original post

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I would QT her and treat with the metronidazole and another broad spectrum antibiotic such as triple sulfa if you can get it.  If you can't, then you can use the kanamycin but it's just a bit more harsh .

 

Also add Epsom at 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons.

 

Dose per package instruction. 

Day 1  Add meds and prime

Day 2 Prime only

Day 3 100% WC, add meds and Prime

Day 4 Prime only

etc

 

You'll want to take that out at least 14 days.  :D

 

Keep us posted.

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fantailfan1, on 19 Dec 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

I would QT her and treat with the metronidazole and another broad spectrum antibiotic such as triple sulfa if you can get it.  If you can't, then you can use the kanamycin but it's just a bit more harsh .

 

Also add Epsom at 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons.

 

Dose per package instruction. 

Day 1  Add meds and prime

Day 2 Prime only

Day 3 100% WC, add meds and Prime

Day 4 Prime only

etc

 

You'll want to take that out at least 14 days.  :D

 

Keep us posted.

 

 

In Denmark there is no chlorine in the Water, so we dont use Prime.

Do that change your instructions?

I have boths meds.

Will you add it to the Water instead of in food?

What do you mean by "You'll want to take that out at least 14 days" ?

 

Thx :)

 

 

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Let me see if i understand you correctly fantailfan1.

Day 1 - Fresh water, both meds (dose as stated on label)
Day 2 - Do nothing.
Day 3 - 100% WC and add both meds again.
Day 4 - Do nothing
....And repeat for at least 14 days?

 

I left out Prime, since the water in Denmark dont require it.
Unless you add it for other reasons?

 

Are the meds rough on an old girl like Miss Tvilsen?
Should i Watch out for something?

Edited by Guldklumpen
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Let me see if i understand you correctly fantailfan1.

Day 1 - Fresh water, both meds (dose as stated on label)

Day 2 - Do nothing.

Day 3 - 100% WC and add both meds again.

Day 4 - Do nothing

....And repeat for at least 14 days?

 

I left out Prime, since the water in Denmark dont require it.

Unless you add it for other reasons?

 

Are the meds rough on an old girl like Miss Tvilsen?

Should i Watch out for something?

 

I'm no mod, but I believe the Prime use is to detoxify ammonia.  She suggested that you place Tvilsen into a quarantine tank, and most QT tanks are uncycled.  This means ammonia could accumulate in QT that nitrifying bacteria would normally dispose of in your main tank.  The Prime will turn this NH3 (free ammonia) into NH4 (ammonium, which is harmless to fish) for 24 hours, thus reducing stress to your fish.

 

Metro and Triple Sulfa are reputed to be some of the gentler medications for fish, but a mod will need to tell you what to watch our for.  I hope this helps, and I hope Tvilsen feels better soon.

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fantailfan1, on 19 Dec 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

I would QT her and treat with the metronidazole and another broad spectrum antibiotic such as triple sulfa if you can get it.  If you can't, then you can use the kanamycin but it's just a bit more harsh .

 

Also add Epsom at 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons.

 

Dose per package instruction. 

Day 1  Add meds and prime

Day 2 Prime only

Day 3 100% WC, add meds and Prime

Day 4 Prime only

etc

 

You'll want to take that out at least 14 days.  :D

 

Keep us posted.

 

 

In Denmark there is no chlorine in the Water, so we dont use Prime.

Do that change your instructions?

I have boths meds.

Will you add it to the Water instead of in food?

What do you mean by "You'll want to take that out at least 14 days" ?

 

Thx :)

 

The Prime is to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite that will no doubt accumulate in the uncycled quarantine tank.  The Metronidazole and Triple Sulfa need to be added to the water for a 14 day period (per the package directions) to ensure that the bacterial infection is cured, otherwise it may come back.  Use the 200mg/10 gallons of Metronidazole dose which is 2 measures per 10 gallons.

 

Dropsey is due to kidney failure.  So, if you decide to use the Kanaplex rather than Triple Sulfa, only go to 12 days as it can be hard on the kidneys.

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Thx a lot Guys.

I have begun the treatment, but have no Prim.

Nor can i get some in time :(

Then I would suggest testing for ammonia and nitrite daily and doing water changes as necessary to keep levels at zero.

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Jared, on 20 Dec 2014 - 8:09 PM, said:

 

Guldklumpen, on 20 Dec 2014 - 5:59 PM, said:

Thx a lot Guys.

I have begun the treatment, but have no Prim.

Nor can i get some in time :(

Then I would suggest testing for ammonia and nitrite daily and doing water changes as necessary to keep levels at zero.

 

 

Thx, I will do that.

Thats the way i usually do it if the filter is uncycled.

Btw does Metronidazole & Tri-Sulfa hurt the filter bacteria?

 

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fantailfan1, on 23 Dec 2014 - 2:30 PM, said:fantailfan1, on 23 Dec 2014 - 2:30 PM, said:

They will most likely affect your cycle bacteria.  Are you QTing in a filtered tank?  :idont

 

QT Tank with cycled filter.

Water is fine so far.

Edited by Guldklumpen
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So far they have not :)

Im keeping the Nitrit and Ammonia on 0.

 

For how long should i use the Epsom?

A week?

That's good.  Just continue to test daily.  I would keep the Epsom going until the swelling/pineconing is gone.  

 

How many days have you been treating with the Epsom and antibiotics?  Have you seen any improvement?  If not, you can raise the Epsom Salt to 1/2 Teaspoon per 10 gallons.  Keep the antibiotics going as well.

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