Jump to content

Floaty Fry


SweetMamaKaty

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member
  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) .25
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.2
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0
    • Water Softener
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API
      • * Water temperature? 72F
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 gallon tank, but it's only filled to 11" deep.  Calculator says 12"x30"x11" = 17.1 gallons.  Moved parents out and fry in September 17, with about 3.5" of water.  Raised to 6" and stayed there for some time, more recently have started raising the water more rapidly, about an inch a week.
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? small sponge filter
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? nearly every day, down to 1" so about 90%
      • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Last night, 90% - will begin tonight's as soon as this is posted.
      • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 15 fry, about 1.5" before the tail
      • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
      • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Slightly less lately than previously, 2-3x day - Mix of Spawn & Grow gel food, soaked Saki Hikari pellets, and frozen bloodworms.
      • * Any new fish added to the tank? No.
      • * Any medications added to the tank? Prazi Pro November 15
      • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Prazi Pro approx every 3 weeks for 4 days: 
      • August 30
      • September 11
      • October 5
      • October 26
      • November 15

         

      • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No.
      • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? All good eaters, but one fry in particular frequently floats belly up at the surface since late October - recently as many as four of them have done this at the same time for different periods of time.  I first thought maybe it was the dry pellets or possibly going a day without wc (had a high ammonia reading once that way) - but today all they had was gel food and were not floating immediately, but about 3-4 hours later.

      I appreciate any help or advice.  I am not keeping all 15 of these guys; 1/2 - 2/3 will be going to the LFS hopefully within the month.  They are about 14.5 weeks old.  I'm just sad to see them struggling and want to help them have good lives even after they leave me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Let's fast for a day or so and see if the floating subsides at all.  Then, reintroduce only one type of food and watch for floating.  If they float, stop that food and try a different one.  This is a basic elimination diet to try and see if one or more of the foods is problematic.  If this yields any findings, we may try adding back the other foods at smaller portions to see if quantity rather than content is the issue.

 

Let's try the foods in this order:

 

1) Frozen Bloodworms

 

2) Gel Food

 

3) Saki Hikari (can cause floatiness)

 

You may also want to slow down the rate of your 90% water changes.  By this, I mean pump the water out and back in at a slower rate so as to give them more time to acclimate to the variation in water depth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thank you, I will fast them tomorrow!  I never thought about the water height changing daily possibly being a factor, but that's a good point - I'll try that too!

I've had swim bladder-challenged fish who would float after large water changes.  I think that if the swim bladder is impaired by constipation or other issues, it can work less efficiently.  This makes it more difficult for the fish to make the necessary adjustments for maintaining balance in changing water depths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I am sorry if my response is out of place since this is a D&D thread.

 

I 'must' however add to the possibility of overfeeding here, in my experience this is exactly what happens when fry are fed too much. The fasting will probably give a quick result, but will reappear when heavily fed. If this is the the case you probably should feed about half of what you are feeding now. When coming out of the summers season, so in fall, i allready start reducing the portions and now in winter, allthough the tanks are 20C degrees, i choose to feed little and of very high quality because goldfish do seem to slow down their digestive system during the change to winter season even is water temperature is ok.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I am sorry if my response is out of place since this is a D&D thread.

 

I 'must' however add to the possibility of overfeeding here, in my experience this is exactly what happens when fry are fed too much. The fasting will probably give a quick result, but will reappear when heavily fed. If this is the the case you probably should feed about half of what you are feeding now. When coming out of the summers season, so in fall, i allready start reducing the portions and now in winter, allthough the tanks are 20C degrees, i choose to feed little and of very high quality because goldfish do seem to slow down their digestive system during the change to winter season even is water temperature is ok.

 

Thanks Hinfin.

 

When I do bloodworms, it's one of the frozen cubes, and probably about that much volume of the other foods too.  I admit I want them to keep getting bigger so I can move forward, but I haven't noticed very big gains lately. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Goldfish that are 1.5" sl are no longer fry, except in the sense of "my fry," who will be my fry forever.  That's larger than many of the pet store fish.  15 juvenile goldfish in 17 gallons of water is massive overstocking.   I was surprised to see an ammonia reading with an established tank, but then read on -- combine over stocking, probably overfeeding, and under filtration, and the surprise goes away.

 

I know you are really working hard to take good care of your fish and this just slipped past you since babies grow fast, but even 100% water changes won't make up for 1 gallon of water per fish.

 

If you can't get some of these guys to the lfs now, get something like this.  The large surface area allows somewhat heavier stocking.  Then split the fish between the tote and the tank, and put a HOB filter of appropriate size in the tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Goldfish that are 1.5" sl are no longer fry, except in the sense of "my fry," who will be my fry forever.  That's larger than many of the pet store fish.  15 juvenile goldfish in 17 gallons of water is massive overstocking.   I was surprised to see an ammonia reading with an established tank, but then read on -- combine over stocking, probably overfeeding, and under filtration, and the surprise goes away.

 

I know you are really working hard to take good care of your fish and this just slipped past you since babies grow fast, but even 100% water changes won't make up for 1 gallon of water per fish.

 

If you can't get some of these guys to the lfs now, get something like this.  The large surface area allows somewhat heavier stocking.  Then split the fish between the tote and the tank, and put a HOB filter of appropriate size in the tank.

Oh my!  Yes, I had no idea. :o  But now that you say that, we saw some small teles at a chain store yesterday and I commented that my babies were bigger than they were... still didn't sink in. :blush:  I will get back with the lfs manager and try to get them there early next week, rather than wait any longer then.  Thank you very much Sharon.

Would a 6 inch jump in water height be damaging to them - to get the hob up and running immediately?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

 

Goldfish that are 1.5" sl are no longer fry, except in the sense of "my fry," who will be my fry forever.  That's larger than many of the pet store fish.  15 juvenile goldfish in 17 gallons of water is massive overstocking.   I was surprised to see an ammonia reading with an established tank, but then read on -- combine over stocking, probably overfeeding, and under filtration, and the surprise goes away.

 

I know you are really working hard to take good care of your fish and this just slipped past you since babies grow fast, but even 100% water changes won't make up for 1 gallon of water per fish.

 

If you can't get some of these guys to the lfs now, get something like this.  The large surface area allows somewhat heavier stocking.  Then split the fish between the tote and the tank, and put a HOB filter of appropriate size in the tank.

Oh my!  Yes, I had no idea. :o  But now that you say that, we saw some small teles at a chain store yesterday and I commented that my babies were bigger than they were... still didn't sink in. :blush:  I will get back with the lfs manager and try to get them there early next week, rather than wait any longer then.  Thank you very much Sharon.

Would a 6 inch jump in water height be damaging to them - to get the hob up and running immediately?

 

No, I would raise the water level (slowly) and get the filter going ASAP.  But, do the fast as well.  I aslo agree with Hinfin that you should pull back on the amount of food, especially given the stocking level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I feel so silly!  Thank you all so much.

 

Jared - by slowly, you still mean all in one day though right, not over a period of days?  Just want to be sure I understand. :)

Don't feel silly.  You have done extremely well with these fry :)

 

Yes, gradually over one day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Update.

 

Struggling to keep the HOB running, not sure what the deal is, as I've even tried 2 different motors.  It is working again at the moment, but was off for an unknown amount of time overnight (up to 10 hours) :(  They don't seem too affected by the current, but they are staying pretty much to the sides.

 

Bloodworms about 3 hours ago, and I was about to report no floating - but I see my known worst floater starting to flip and go up, but still struggling to right itself, so it is probably only a matter of time for it to tire and float as before. :(  There are 2-3 others continually rising to the surface right side up too - they start to tilt to the side, then right themselves and swim back down.

 

eta: The FBW cubes are so small - I wouldn't think that one would be too much for 15 of them to share, would it?

 

eta: 0/0/0 so hoping that means my bb survived.

Edited by SweetMamaKaty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Update.

 

Struggling to keep the HOB running, not sure what the deal is, as I've even tried 2 different motors.  It is working again at the moment, but was off for an unknown amount of time overnight (up to 10 hours) :(  They don't seem too affected by the current, but they are staying pretty much to the sides.

 

Bloodworms about 3 hours ago, and I was about to report no floating - but I see my known worst floater starting to flip and go up, but still struggling to right itself, so it is probably only a matter of time for it to tire and float as before. :(  There are 2-3 others continually rising to the surface right side up too - they start to tilt to the side, then right themselves and swim back down.

 

eta: The FBW cubes are so small - I wouldn't think that one would be too much for 15 of them to share, would it?

 

eta: 0/0/0 so hoping that means my bb survived.

How are you presenting the bloodworms to the fish?  Did they improve when you fasted?  Do you have a 1mm pellet on hand (not the Saki)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I scoop out a little cup of their tank water, thaw the square in that, breaking it all up, then pour it in.  There were no issues whatsoever yesterday! :)  Today, that was as bad as it got, none of them ended up floating belly up, just fighting to stay right.

 

My pellets are all about the same size (except the NLS which is much larger and not pictured), with the Saki being slightly smaller, but none say a size:

clockwise from bottom right (sorry, pic wouldn't rotate):

Omega One small pellet

Hikari Lionhead mini pellet

Saki Hikari baby stick

IMG_82461_zps9c4ca1c2.jpg?t=1417729697

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Please dont feel bad, it is clear you are doing your best!

 

Please dont panic, it does not make any difference if you would stop feeding a couple of days or if you would slow down on feeding. Just do not increase water level suddenly and keep the daily WC's.

 

One mistake i madewith my ranchu is that i didnt plan ahead enough, deslecting goldfish and working towards a solid housing for remaining fish is what you should be worrying about. At one point i even called any pet shop in my area to please take some of my fry for free and explained my kids didnt want to let them go but they were growing so fast i would have to put them down otherwise. :wacko:

Edited by Hinfin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thank you for the kind words.  Right now, the plan is to take all but 3-4 of them to the lfs Monday - or is that why you say don't panic?  :teehee   I am mostly to terms with it - I guess it was just a matter of time - but I do regret that I won't get to see them keep growing or choose my personal keepers by color at all.

 

One thing I had consoled myself with though, was getting to stop the daily water changes!  No?  I guess I'm realizing I'm at the upper limits of what my life and schedule will allow. :undecided:   So I have to find a balance between what I want to do, and what I actually can do and still get a good outcome. :)  AqAdvisor says I'd be ok with 6 in this tank size for now, and that would let me take some to the AGA auction in August - but not if I can't stop this floating.  Granted, it is not all of them doing it, but aside from two with very definite features, I'm not sure who the other two were.  And one of them I'm considering keeping regardless, because it's been my favorite since the beginning...

 

Sorry for the ramble, working through my own thoughts I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I understand the problem, i had the same problem at some point. I was lucky to be able to take them outside in a pond during summer so i could prolong difficult decisions about which to keep. For me the fish i found most interesting at about 2 months still are, those are the keepers. I am happy i made alot of pictures of the fish i let go. 

 

I think it is completely normal to have problems letting go of your fry. It belongs to breeding and i do hope my fry help other keepers to enjoy the hobby just as much as i have enjoyed them.

 

Yes, it will take some time raising fry, but who wants to watch TV anywayz :rofl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Yes, they are definitely more interesting (and less abrasive!) than TV. :teehee

 

 

About 3-4 hours after the gel food, there was a little bit of flipping, but only one fish.  I guess that's just the time period it will happen, right when I'm about to say it went fine...

Edited by SweetMamaKaty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I think I will mark this solved for now.  After getting the HOB going, reducing my numbers, and going down to one feeding a day, they show no problem with fbw or soaked and crushed pellets - only the gel food, so I will drop that.

 

ETA:  I used this post to mark solved - not that it is the 'best answer' obviously, but I felt like the solution was a combination of everyone's responses and didn't want to choose just one. :D

Edited by SweetMamaKaty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...