Emergency Euthanasia without clove oil?

[Reds12 98]

Any suggestions on other humane ways to do this?  

 

Came on suddenly and she's really struggling so I'd rather not wait until morning when I can go buy some...if I can even find it  It was impossible to locate the last time I looked for it.

[ichthius 122]

Put her in a container of water, add ice and freeze solid or add bleach. I know this method has historically been frowned upon but at work (research zebrafish) we have a peer reviewed publication that has now been incorporated into the AVMA's guidelines https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf

[Helen 8,509]

i am sorry your fish is so unwell.. {{{hugs}}} to you.

[Anna-Katharina Parsons 495]

I'm so sorry you need to resort to put her to sleep.

[yafashelli 9,540]

I'm sorry for what you're now facing, and I hope you are able to find strength. 

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Put her in a container of water, add ice and freeze solid or add bleach. I know this method has historically been frowned upon but at work (research zebrafish) we have a peer reviewed publication that has now been incorporated into the AVMA's guidelines https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf

For others seeking information on euthanasia, I start with immersion in clove oil and then follow with freezing as explained above.

[Reds12 98]

Thank you all.  I really appreciate your help and kind words.  Recurring dropsy finally took its toll and my two sickies are now together on the other side.

 

Mr Wiggles - nov 16

George - dec 2

 

<3

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Sorry for your loss 

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Very sorry for your loss.

[Lis. 4,167]

Very sorry for your loss

[kiwikacey 219]

So sorry for your loss 

[DieselPlower 2,123]

Sorry for your loss.

If we can continue the conversation a bit... What is the proper use of ice water?  It seems the info out there varies greatly. Some people say freeze the fish. Some people say it is very painful. Some people say put it in water and add ice to chill. Some say put it right into freezing cold ice water to knock it out quick.

[DieselPlower 2,123]

One thing pro fisherman do to knock out fish is to hit it on the head. Not sure we can do this with our small fish.

[shakaho 6,312]

DP, there's a big difference between what people say and what experiments determine.  Ichthius presented the results of experiments as published in a refereed journal.   I think he was quite clear about putting the fish in ice water,  which produces rapid loss of consciousness.  The unconscious fish is then killed by putting it in the freezer or adding bleach.

[DieselPlower 2,123]

DP, there's a big difference between what people say and what experiments determine.  Ichthius presented the results of experiments as published in a refereed journal.   I think he was quite clear about putting the fish in ice water,  which produces rapid loss of consciousness.  The unconscious fish is then killed by putting it in the freezer or adding bleach.

I don't know if I would call a minimum of 10 minutes rapid. I also didn't see anything about bleach in the article. The article was also referencing danios, which I believe are tropicals and only grow to about 2" long, whereas goldfish are cold water fish and grow much larger. That's apple's to oranges.

 

Having taken a second look at the article, it also says at the bottom that the method is accepted to tropical and subtropical fish. Goldfish are neither.

Edited December 3, 2014 by DieselPlower

[ichthius 122]

Zebrafish and goldfish are both cyprinids. Goldfish have a lower temperature tolerance than zebrafish but they also have a lower limit.

Put a goldfish in an ice bath and it will will go to sleep and stop breathing rapidly. Continue to freeze it solid and it will die. Or add chlorine and it will die. The point is it's so numb that it does not feel pain, the nerves are to cold to function.

The ten minutes is to ensure they are completely out and there is no chance of them being aware when chlorine is added. Remember this is a highly reviewed and technical protocol for euthanizing lab animals which is a necessary and touch subject.

Exposing fish to Clove oil exposes the fish to stress too.

It also has to be humane on the person being compassionate enough to end its life.

I think the container of water, say goodbye, add ice and put in the freezer is the best for all involved.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ichthius

[DieselPlower 2,123]

Here's a link showing the AVMA does not condone the method.

 

http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/articles/81

[shakaho 6,312]

And what do they base that disapproval on?   If research, where are the references? 

[ichthius 122]

Can you show any publication showing ice is not humane?

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ichthius

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Ichthius,

 

What do think about using a high dose of clove oil to anesthetize/euthanize a fish prior to freezing it as a 2-stage method of euthanasia?  This is what I do because it seems to rule out any problems that might arise with either the clove oil or freezing methods used alone.  It is also the method recommended in Fundamentals of Ornamental Fish Health.  Obviously, this wasn't an option for our OP, but I am interested in your insights since you have done extensive research on the subject. 

[DieselPlower 2,123]

And what do they base that disapproval on?   If research, where are the references? 

 

 

Can you show any publication showing ice is not humane?

 

 

And what do they base that disapproval on?   If research, where are the references? 

  There are multiple links with sources in the article.  Did you open the link? Why even waste my time asking?

Edited December 3, 2014 by DieselPlower

[DieselPlower 2,123]

As a matter of fact, page 71 specifically mentions the ice water method not being suitable for goldfish and koi. This is the same source quoted by earlier in the thread however the poster failed to continue reading. I don't think a person can argue with their own source can they?

[jmetzger72 6,976]

I think this is what DP is referring to regarding freezing alone as a means of euthanizing Goldfish:

 

https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf

 

Page 71, right hand column:

 

"This method of euthanasia is not appropriate for temperate, cool or cold-water-tolerant finifish, such as carp, koi, goldfish or other species that can survive at 4 degrees celcius and below".

[DieselPlower 2,123]

I think this is what DP is referring to regarding freezing alone as a means of euthanizing Goldfish:

 

https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf

 

Page 71, right hand column:

 

"This method of euthanasia is not appropriate for temperate, cool or cold-water-tolerant finifish, such as carp, koi, goldfish or other species that can survive at 4 degrees celcius and below".

Thanks. I'm doing this on my phone cause I can't sleep lol.

[ichthius 122]

I think this is what DP is referring to regarding freezing alone as a means of euthanizing Goldfish:

https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf

Page 71, right hand column:

"This method of euthanasia is not appropriate for temperate, cool or cold-water-tolerant finifish, such as carp, koi, goldfish or other species that can survive at 4 degrees celcius and below".

Which is why your freeze solid in a freezer to -20 C/ 0 F or add chlorine.

The ice bath is just the incapacitation portion which is nearly instant.

Strong doses of clive oil work but I think the ice bath knocks them out faster and anesthetics do cause stress reaction in fish.