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fishtankbabe

Help for a chronic floater?

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My beloved oranda has developed food-related swim bladder issues. He doesn't really have great balance or stability to begin with, and after feeding him ANYTHING, he becomes floaty. Yesterday he was stuck upside down for the entire day just from one bite-sized chunk of SG. I have tried NLS pellets, Soilent Green, Super Green, frozen bloodworms, frozen mysis shrimp, frozen spirulina with brine shrimp, it seems like every single thing I feed him makes him float.

Would adding some koi clay or probiotics to the Super Green help at all? I don't have a stove right now so I can't cook up a fancy batch of 100% homemade gel food.

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Hi, I moved this to Disease and Diagnosis because I think that is a more appropriate place for this topic and will get you more help. Can you fill out the D&D check list to the best of your ability. The link is in blue below my signature. Just cut and paste the form in your next post. Please also let us know what kind of substrate you have and the depth of your tank :)

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  • Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) - 0.00
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) - 0.00
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) - 0.00 (sorry, just did a water change today)
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) - 1.00 (chloromines)
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) - 0.00
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) - 0.00
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 8.2 I don't know KH or GH but I have hard water.
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 8.2
  • Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
  • * Water temperature? - 73 F
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 gallons, running for years
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? AquaClear/Fluval 50 x2 (so 100 gph). Both filters were cleaned a week ago.
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Once a week, 100%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Just did 100% change today
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 medium/large goldfish
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? - Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? - Super Green, a bite-sized chunk once or twice a day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? - no
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. - He had 1 round of Prazi and salt about 4 months ago
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? - He is very slightly pineconed, I believe as a result of the stress from being upside down for over 24 hours
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He is swimming around and seems in good spirits

No substrate, this is a bare-bottom tank. It's a standard 29 gallon, so 18" tall. He's separated from the other fish by a tank divider (the other fish is my bubble eye and he can't be trusted not to nom on her bubbles). I should note that he was previously in my 135 gallon, but a week ago I moved him to the 29 gallon so I could control how much he was eating as I thought maybe that was the problem. He did much better at first, no flipping over at all, until Friday he was back to upside-down floating and it lasted much longer than usual. Previously he would float after eating, but he would be ok about 6 hours or so later. This time he was upside down for around 36 hours. I haven't fed him anything since Friday morning.

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Just curious, how does he react to plain blanched vegetables?

He likes peas and he does ok with those. He wouldn't eat the raw red leaf lettuce I used to put in for them. I tried mixed vegetables once (canned, no salt added), but all my fish hated the carrots and spit them back out.

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AC 50 filters have a GPH of 200 each. So, you have a total GPH of 400, which is good.

I would start by putting him in a 10 gallon QT tank and add 1/4 teaspoon Epsom salt. Can we get a picture of him from above to see the pineconing? Do you have any antibiotics?

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I have Metro Meds but they're over 6 months old, I also have the powdered Metro and powdered BiFuran that you put in the water. Or I can take him to the vet but that would have to wait until Sunday since that's the only day he works at the animal hospital. I will get pics tomorrow, it's too late for me to move him tonight.

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I have Metro Meds but they're over 6 months old, I also have the powdered Metro and powdered BiFuran that you put in the water. Or I can take him to the vet but that would have to wait until Sunday since that's the only day he works at the animal hospital. I will get pics tomorrow, it's too late for me to move him tonight.

The Metro Meds will last a year in a dry, sealed container, but I would not recommend them for this fish. Let's start with just the Epsom Salt (1/4 Teaspoon per 10 gallons) and the lower water depth of the 10 gallon tank (or something similar). I would stop the gel food for now. We may decide to try the Metronidazole powder if the Epsom doesn't work, but let's hold off for now. The BiFuran is better for external issues. Can you pick up some API Triple Sulpha instead? Have you seen any poop?

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The Metro Meds will last a year in a dry, sealed container, but I would not recommend them for this fish. Let's start with just the Epsom Salt (1/4 Teaspoon per 10 gallons) and the lower water depth of the 10 gallon tank (or something similar). I would stop the gel food for now. We may decide to try the Metronidazole powder if the Epsom doesn't work, but let's hold off for now. The BiFuran is better for external issues. Can you pick up some API Triple Sulpha instead? Have you seen any poop?

I can pick up Triple Sulpha if needed (I believe they sell it at Petsmart?). I have not seen any poop. Either he's eating it, or the filter is sucking it up. I saw him "fart" a bubble once, and he gulps air for quite a while after he eats.

What should I feed him? I gave him a pea this morning.

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Were you able to move him to a qt tank and add Epsom?

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Were you able to move him to a qt tank and add Epsom?

I just now got home and got him set up in the 10 gallon with the Epsom. I took some pictures but because of his coloration you really can't see the pineconing. It is definitely there, but it is very slight. What temperature should I keep him at? The tank is currently at 70 F. And what should I feed him?

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Were you able to move him to a qt tank and add Epsom?

I just now got home and got him set up in the 10 gallon with the Epsom. I took some pictures but because of his coloration you really can't see the pineconing. It is definitely there, but it is very slight. What temperature should I keep him at? The tank is currently at 70 F. And what should I feed him?

Great! 72-74 F is good. Did he eat the pea you fed him this morning? Is he floaty right now?

Watch for poop and let us know what it looks like.

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Great! 72-74 F is good. Did he eat the pea you fed him this morning? Is he floaty right now?

Watch for poop and let us know what it looks like.

He's been in there for about an hour, I just caught him suspended basicallt upside down in the middle of the tank. He is having a very long stringy see-through/white poop. He did eat the pea I fed him this morning. Should I give him another one? He seems like he is not doing well in the epsom.

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Great! 72-74 F is good. Did he eat the pea you fed him this morning? Is he floaty right now?

Watch for poop and let us know what it looks like.

He's been in there for about an hour, I just caught him suspended basicallt upside down in the middle of the tank. He is having a very long stringy see-through/white poop. He did eat the pea I fed him this morning. Should I give him another one? He seems like he is not doing well in the epsom.

Let's not feed him anymore while he's upside down. The Epsom will only help him. Let us know how he looks in the morning. We may need to try antibiotics. Do you have a filter or an airstone on his tank for circulation?

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Great! 72-74 F is good. Did he eat the pea you fed him this morning? Is he floaty right now?

Watch for poop and let us know what it looks like.

He's been in there for about an hour, I just caught him suspended basicallt upside down in the middle of the tank. He is having a very long stringy see-through/white poop. He did eat the pea I fed him this morning. Should I give him another one? He seems like he is not doing well in the epsom.

Let's not feed him anymore while he's upside down. The Epsom will only help him. Let us know how he looks in the morning. We may need to try antibiotics. Do you have a filter or an airstone on his tank for circulation?

There's an airstone in there. I'm just concerned because he was not having any issues staying upright before I put him in the epsom. Are you sure he'll be ok?

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I don't think it's the Epsom, but the change in tank depth that he might be adjusting to slowly because of the swimbladder problem. He should adjust by tomorrow, but don't feed him anymore. Swimbladder problems can be very difficult to diagnose and treat, but we have a better chance of this in the QT tank.

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You matched the temperature and pH of the water and added Prime before moving him, correct?

We really need some pics and a video would really help, too.

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Yes I matched the temp and the pH and remembered to add the Prime (thank God).

Here are some photos:

IMG_7585_zps5a0d6885.jpg

IMG_7584_zps665cb46f.jpg

IMG_7583_zps4bc9da85.jpg

And a video:

Sorry it's so dark, the light in that area is really bad.

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It's been about 12 hours and he's still in the same position as the video.

Okay, thanks for the pics and video. I think we better start some antibiotics. Is your Metronidazole the Seachem brand? If so, let's do the 200 mg/10 gallons dosage which is 2 measures/10 gallons. I would also add API Triple Sulfa per the package directions. Ignore their water change instructions. The Metro is dosed every other day and the Triple Sulfa is dosed every day. We will want to do a 100% water change(WC) every other day before adding the antibiotics:

Tue 11/17 (Day 1) - Add Prime, Metro and Triple Sulfa

Wed 11/18 (Day 2) - 100% WC, Add Epsom, Metro and Triple Sulfa

Thu 11/19 (Day 3) - Add Prime, Triple Sulfa

Fri 11/20 (Day 4) - 100% WC, Add Epsom, Metro and Triple Sulfa

Sat 11/21 (Day 5) - Add Prime, Triple Sulfa

Sun 11/22 (Day 6) - 100% WC, Add Epsom, Metro and Triple Sulfa

Mon 11/23 - Let's check in.

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Will you also update us on what this fish has eaten over the last 7 days?

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I agree it's time for meds. Good luck with the treatment. SBD is no fun. I've got one fish right now that is getting floaty and it makes me :(

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I'm sorry that your beautiful oranda is having issues :hug I hope you see improvement once he's on the meds :)

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Will you also update us on what this fish has eaten over the last 7 days?

He had Super Green on the 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th. I fasted him on the 15th and 16th. He had one pea on the 17th. I did see some normal looking poop this morning, that was pea color. There was also some very long stringy transparent stuff.

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