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Large Common has tumor in mouth and bulging on one side


austinado16

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Hi Gang,

Long time since I've posted. Things w/ the fish have been going well, but here I am in the 9-1-1 area for my big Common who I think needs to be euthanized.

For a long time now, he's had a lump inside his mouth, on the left side, a the bottom. It was small at first, almost like maybe his mouth just wasn't formed right in that location, but it started growing, and in the last month or so has gotten big. I figured cancer or similar...aka, not much I can do about it. A couple days ago, he started clamping fins, and when I looked at him straight on, I noticed he was starting to bulge out just behind the left gill, and in another location just back from there.

I put him in my 10g hospital tank, 1/4tsp of espsom salt, and started him on Marycin 1, with a heater trying to keep the water in the 75-80*F range. No change, of course and today he's much worse. The bulging areas are pine-coned and there's red in the areas around the scales, like internal bleeding. The tail is now getting a couple splits, and there's a red vein in the very middle, just where the tail meets the body.

I've been changing the water in the 10g daily, and re-dosing the salt and Marycin, but I think this is the end of the line, and I'm ready to get some clove oil and do the deed. Hate to, but he's been a great fish, and I don't want to see him suffer any longer.

Any advice greatly appreciated, even if it's just to say, "Yes, he's not able to be saved."

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i would like to add my complete thoughts, but not before seeing a video. do you think it's possible that you can hold your fish to the surface of the water, with it's head slightly out to encourage air gasping mouth movement, whilst someone else holds a flashlight and video camera? it shouldn't be too difficult.

if the tumor is somewhere where long nose scissors (prefer from sterile dissection kit) or even sterilized hairdressing scissors can easily reach, we may be able to easily lengthen the life of your fish.

should you think this is possible, i offer you my company and guidance via skype video during the entire procedure.

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Can I also add this form for you to fill out, please, so that we can monitor things if necessary? First priority, though, is the video that Helen requested. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/116133-help-request-check-list/

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Thanks for the fast replies! The lump in the mouth is just in from the "lips" so it's easily accessible.....however, it's not an external growth. It's something going on under the tissue. So carving it out would leave a 3/8" diameter raw opening.

And that lump is seemingly very secondary to what appears to be a lot of internal bleeding or blood seepage.

Stand by for photos.

BTW, I know you guys like to know water params, but he's in a 10g hospital tank getting daily changes, so that's about as good is it's gonna get. But I certainly blame myself for his condition, as I've not put any live plants or other fish in with he and his 2 gals in a couple of years. So it's a sealed environment, other than my care.

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i think this could be doable... so i am not encouraging euthing at this stage (but that's just me).. i will be busy for the next 4 hours. and then i am home for a day and a half.

if there is any chance you want to go this way and would like to connect with me on skype, there is a link on my profile. or just send me a PM and we can discuss more about how before returning to the thread. i do not believe that the hole will cause the fish to bleed out. there is no major vein in that area that i am aware of which will cause blood to continuously be released.

if you think that you would prefer not put the fish through surgery, i have a euthing link in my signature.

either way, we support your decision :)

i'll check back when i return :)

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Helen, thanks so much for the offer to help. If he was otherwise doing great, I might be inclined, but at this point, there's so much other very serious looking "stuff" happening, that IMO, takes precedence, that surgery would just be adding cruelty.

The splits and now tiny holes in the tail, have appeared, literally, over night, as did all the bleeding areas. Any idea what the cause is? Just some really bad infection?

He's still eating, in fact, just gave him a huge piece of avocado and he inhaled it, as is his usual method.

Oh, and he's also been breathing very rapidly for about 2 days. I put him in the hospital tank on Friday.

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One thing to consider is the fish is also pineconing and has what appears to be internal bleeding. It's one thing to remove a tumor on a healthy fish. I don't think at this point the tumor is the biggest concern. I'd try and deal with the internal issues first. :idont

I'd recommend adding metronidazole to the water also. How many days has he been in the maracyn?

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I treated them all for flukes, with Prazi, about 18mos ago. Treated them in their big tank.

Don't have any metro, but can get it tomorrow.

Today makes day 3 on the Marycin.

Edited by austinado16
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i have no experience with the maracyn.. but i have heard that it can be hard on the organs and since blood like symptoms appeared overnight, i now grow concerned in what condition your fish is actually in. so, from an honest perspective, i too would decline to do the surgery and am happy that you are caring fr your fish and honest with us to conclude this.

i will continue to monitor progress and wish you well in deciding on what to do next. :hug

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He's getting better!

Swollen areas were much improved yesterday and fins were unclamped. No freshly bleeding looking areas between the scales and the blood that was showing, was getting dark. By mid-day he was eating from my hand again, and spending less time sitting on the bottom, propped up against he back wall. By late last night, he was swimming around foraging for food and occasionally eating from the slice of lime I'd left for him to find. This morning he's basically back to normal as far as swimming and eating goes. He's got a few more days on the meds, so maybe by Monday he'll be back in the big tank with the girls.

Thanks for all the help and support you guys!

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Still looking good. The rapid breathing has improved to be more normal. All the bloody spots have been absorbed and are gone. The worst one is now just a dark dot in the middle of one scale. So I guess we're getting there, slowly but surely.

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I think it was maybe 3 days (Friday/Sat./Sun) on the Maracyn 1 before the advice here sent me out after Metromeds. The LFS (not a petboxstore) didn't have any, and that was Monday. They did have "Focus" by Seachem. So I purchased a tube of that and that's what I've been using. The LFS said they'd have more Metromeds by Wed. by in previous experience, they are very unreliable in getting stuff in.

So I stuck with the Focus, the 80*F water temps and the 1tsp of Epsom Salts in the 10g tank. The big lug wouldn't eat the focus mixed with avocado, so I decided to just heavily dose the water. I'm doing 80% water changes twice a day, so with each water change, it was a new round of salt, and 3 heaping scoop fulls of Focus, dumped right in front of where he was laying. I figured he'd breathe it in initially in that heavy concentration, and then soak in it the rest of the day.

It's been 6 days total, on the Focus, the tube is nearly empty, and as of this afternoon, he's doing even better. His breathing is back to that slow methodical big goldfish breathing (he's about 10 inches), and he's just hovering around in the tank waiting for each time I walk over, and then it's, "FEED ME" eyes as he comes up to the glass.

I'll keep treating him until the Focus is gone, which will probably be Monday. I've got the heater off, and he's been in regular 66*F temp water for about 12hrs. I've also stopped salting.

Don't know if what I've done is right or good, but I was willing to try anything as opposed to giving up on him.

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Metro meds is a medicated fish food. Available at goldfish connection which is going out of business soon if it hasn't already. (Rick is retiring.) fantailfan1 suggested Metronidazole. Seachem makes metroplex which is Metronidazole. I'll check in with moderators if anything else should be done. How's the growth in his mouth?

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