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Urgent Help Needed- Oranda Mystery Illness


Queens4Fish

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Hi OK thanks,

Just checking back as we said we would confer on Octozin.

pffff... really don't know what to do about cleo :no: .

Kanaplex arrives tomorrow (Thursday) it's still Wednesday here :)

Shall I treat them both with the Kanaplex, saying as they have been in the same tank all their life- maybe it won't do Amidala any harm to get a does of kanaplex too??

What do you think?

Roger that on prazi break.

Qx

Edited by Queens4Fish
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The white nodules doesn't necessarily means flukes. You have a fish that is bottom sitting in an abnormal position slime coat will thicken when irritated. I don't know if anyone mentioned about wiping down the bottom of your tank during water changes but I would suggest it with a bottom sitting fish. The updated photo is showing quite a bit of irritation to the slime coat.

While swim bladder issues do occur and can be the cause of a fish side lying as such, organ failure is another. The are ways of alleviating swim bladder issues in an otherwise healthy fish. It seems Jared is leading you to try a second antibiotic and I wish you the best of luck. :hug

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The trouble is that no one seems to know what is really wrong with Cleo, so we are all doing our best but shooting in the dark here.

She seems eager to feed but cannot right herself at all.

The odd thing about the white nodules is that they are not the parts of her that are rubbing against the bottom in particular- so we went for the slime coat thickening as a result of presumed fluke infestation as discussed in the numerous previous posts.( we weren't using them as a way to diagnose for flukes) although in previous posts I did mention that at one point they had large white spots on their dorsal fins and tails, since treating for flukes these have disappeared, although as I mentioned Amidala has a couple of weak ones since yesterday.

How on earth can I determine whether it is organ failure... argh.

I feel very powerless here.

I can't think of any other way to find her a diagnosis???

I wish there were actual fish doctors I could visit locally too, it's a major pain in the :fbottom: .

Thanks for the advice so far Teletubby and for the well wishes Bodoba.

Qx

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Aside from posthumously the only one who could tell you is a vet. I sympathize with the vet issue as mine doesn't even believe goldfish are susceptible to parasites.

I had something similar happen to a blue oranda. I found out the kidneys were abnormal during an autopsy. I fed antibiotics but to no avail. I hope you and Jared can heal this fish but I just wanted to prepare you as from the pictures it seems the fish is advancing sadly. :hug:(

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Yes, unfortunately I was aware of this possibility right from the moment I came to Kokos...

Time will tell. x

Yes, unfortunately I was aware of this possibility right from the moment I came to Kokos...

Time will tell. x

I think we are done with the Octozin. I think you should try the Kanaplex on Cleo, but it would be best if you could separate her and leave Amidala in the main tank to continue Prazi in a few days. If you can get a plastic 10 gallon food safe tub for Cleo, that would be ideal. All you would need is an airstone for aeration and circulation. Then I would try the Kanaplex. Octozin is mainly for gram positive, anaerobic bacterial infections whereas Kanaplex is for gram negative infections. Kanaplex is one of the only water borne meds that is absorbed well through the skin. I have seen it succeed with bottom sitting fish when Metro has failed more than once. I can't guarantee that it will work, but I don't know of any better options at this stage of treatment. If that Kanaplex had arrived earlier, I would have had you pair it with the Octozin from the start.

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HI all,

I am still very greatful for the help Teletubby , regardless. Something is always better than nothing. :thumb:

Well, good news and bad news.

I have not been medicating the tank until today and have noticed significant improvement in both fish.

Amidala is swimming around much more freely and Cleo is moving around the tank much more( albeit on her side).

I can however still see symptoms... twitching chewing the water etc.

Shall I just start the prazi up again now, every other day?

The bad news is that the kanaplex STILL hasn't arrived and I am having huge difficulty tracking the package down, nowhere in the UK appears to stock it either.

If you know anyone who is within the UK who can send me some right quick, can you please let me know? Because it now says it may be another 2.5 weeks, which has me fuming.

p.s I have also managed to find a fish doctor in London in a small vet practice that specialises in ornamental fish and buoyancy disorders but am waiting for him to respond...

Qxx

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HI all,

I am still very greatful for the help Teletubby , regardless. Something is always better than nothing. :thumb:

Well, good news and bad news.

I have not been medicating the tank until today and have noticed significant improvement in both fish.

Amidala is swimming around much more freely and Cleo is moving around the tank much more( albeit on her side).

I can however still see symptoms... twitching chewing the water etc.

Shall I just start the prazi up again now, every other day?

The bad news is that the kanaplex STILL hasn't arrived and I am having huge difficulty tracking the package down, nowhere in the UK appears to stock it either.

If you know anyone who is within the UK who can send me some right quick, can you please let me know? Because it now says it may be another 2.5 weeks, which has me fuming.

p.s I have also managed to find a fish doctor in London in a small vet practice that specialises in ornamental fish and buoyancy disorders but am waiting for him to respond...

Qxx

I would definitely start the next round of Prazi today. We don't want the Flukes to gain a foothold again. I'm glad Cleo is moving around more. Let us know what the vet says :)

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Hi all

Well again with some bad news.

The fish doctor was a total waste of time :(

Apparently the only way he is happy to advise on antibiotics etc is if I bring Cleo in for an x-ray and the appointment itself will cost upto 250 dollars :krazy:

He has never heard of Kanaplex-( it's not available in the UK) and said maybe it was an OLD medication/formula.

I'm sort of in disbelief, he is the only fish vet in London and he seemed so tired and unenthusiastic ( didn't even tell me what he thought the red spots were- nothing) and basically said that after extensive research ( he even sent me this research) he has found that most buoyancy problems are not treatable anyway.. urgh.

SO

Onto positive things and self- education with my lovely people HERE. :hug

Shall I do the standard 7 day prazi rounds now or would you like me to do the 100 percent water changes still?

Thanks!

QXX

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The fish have noticeably started to sulk since I added Prazi again, not as active. And I have an ammonia and nitrite spike.

I am off to do water change as we speak...

Should I add prazi and salt?

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The fish have noticeably started to sulk since I added Prazi again, not as active. And I have an ammonia and nitrite spike.

I am off to do water change as we speak...

Should I add prazi and salt?

When did you add the Prazi?

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Continue like this? Unitl Kanaplex arrives?

And since I am not treating with kanaplex but still treating for flukes in both fish- do I still need to isolate Cleo?

Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3. we are here
Day 19: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.
Day 22: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.
Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.
Day 29: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.
Day 33: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.
Day 36: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.
Day 40: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

OR
Add Prazi and salt + 100 percent water change?-every other day

Edited by Queens4Fish
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Continue like this? Unitl Kanaplex arrives?

And since I am not treating with kanaplex but still treating for flukes in both fish- do I still need to isolate Cleo?

Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3. we are here

Day 19: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.

Day 22: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.

Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.

Day 29: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.

Day 33: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.

Day 36: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.

Day 40: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

OR

Add Prazi and salt + 100 percent water change?-every other day

Normally, I only do 4 rounds. But if you are still seeing symptoms at round 3, I would go to 6 rounds. Your schedule looks good, but I would do 100% since you have symptoms of parasite load as well as Ammonia and Nitrite. When the Kanamycin arrives, we can discuss whether it is worth trying in a separate QT with Cleo. I have a call into Seachem regarding the use of Kanaplex and would like to wait on their response.

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You called Seachem?

I heart you for that!

What are you hoping to clarify from that?

As I said I am still waiting for the really shoddy dhl system to tell me when it will come.

I should hope the schedule looks good lol since it's the one you gave me originally :teehee

Qxx

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Hi Again

OK so i think the flukes are gone :)

I have now completed the rounds.

The bad news is that Cleo albeit being otherwise fine- is still on her side.

Now the kanaplex people are royal idiots- I never received a thing from them and ended up waiting all this time over a month for the product and now after various tall tales, they have backed down and offered a full refund because they basically can't be bothered to expedite the product express delivery.

Stay well away from 'Healthy Europe' if you ever come across them , complete charlatans, and I am cross at this complete waste of time.

So I don't really know what to do,

Did you ever manage to hear back from Seachem?

At this point I am wondering if the best bet is asking someone trusted on Kokos to send me the kanaplex via courrier and I pay them directly via transfer.

If anyone is willing please let me know.

Otherwise- should I try something like Interpet 13- swimbladder treatment in a quarantine tank in the meantime?

Thanks

Qxx

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It is likely that Cleo has an infection or mass that is pushing her swim bladder out of position resulting in her sideways position. That is why the vet wanted to take an X-ray to verify this. Then they would probably suggest an injection of something like Baytril.

Since you don't want to go to a vet (which I understand), I think that an antibiotic such as Kanaplex or Triple Sulpha is your best bet. I would get the Kanaplex if you can. You can post a new thread specifically requesting Kanaplex from any British members in your area. Don't get into a discussion about treatment as we already have that here. You can also find it on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=kanaplex&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3Dkanaplex%26_arr%3D1

I am not a fan of the Interpet product as it contains formaldehyde.

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Yes, thank-you understood.

I take it Seachem never responded then?

Yes, they did respond. They said that Kanaplex can be used safely for up to 2 rounds which is 12 consecutive days. We usually go to 10 days.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Regular Member

Hi

 

OK the kanaplex is FINALLY here and I have started treating as per the packet which means half a level measure for 10 L.

 

Cleo is by herself in a 10 L clear bucket with an air stone.

 

I have just noticed that it's supposed to be 10 Gallons not 10 L, I'm worried this will make her worse-so should I just put her back in the main tank and treat them both with Kanaplex?

 

I should add that although Amidala is much better she still has a bit of those spots left on her tail and I have done everything we discussed, water parameters etc, prazi...

 

What do you think?

 

Qx

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Hi

 

OK the kanaplex is FINALLY here and I have started treating as per the packet which means half a level measure for 10 L.

 

Cleo is by herself in a 10 L clear bucket with an air stone.

 

I have just noticed that it's supposed to be 10 Gallons not 10 L, I'm worried this will make her worse-so should I just put her back in the main tank and treat them both with Kanaplex?

 

I should add that although Amidala is much better she still has a bit of those spots left on her tail and I have done everything we discussed, water parameters etc, prazi...

 

What do you think?

 

Qx

Hi,

 

I am just reading this as I was away yesterday.  Yes, I believe the dosage is 1 measure per 20 Liters or 5 US gallons.  So, a half scoop would be correct for 10L.  However, it is probably hard to judge precisely a half scoop and a 10L bucket isn't really big enough to keep her in.  So, It would be better to treat her in a 10 gallon (40L) QT tank or tub.  The dosage would be 2 measures per 10 US Gallons (40L) every other day for a total of 5 doses (10-day treatment).  Do a 100% water change before each dose and add Prime on the days in between doses to nuetralize any ammonia or nitrite.

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