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Queens4Fish

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Here is what I found out about Octozin:

"OCTOZIN is active for up to 3 days after the last day of use. Although internal parasites are destroyed instantly, external signs of improvement to the fish may take up to 7 days."

So, I would treat as directed on Days 1, 2 and 3 and then again on day 5 and 7 The doses on days 5 and 7 should extend the presence of the medicine in the water to 8 or 9 days which should be sufficient. Do a 100% water change before adding the Octozin on days 5 and 7 and then wait until day 9 to do another water change. Make sure to test the water parameters daily and Prime if necessary.

If Cleo, doesn't respond to the Octozin, I would add the Kanaplex. We have used Metro and Kana together on many occasions :)

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Thanks teletubby :)

That's really useful!

My problem there is that I started Prazi and Octozin on the same day so they are overlapping:

If I do a 100 percent change on day 7, I will be taking The prazi dose I put in the day before out of the water, so shall I wait till day 10 so they get the max amount of prazi dose?

According to the schedule + what you just gave me:

Day 5 (today) : Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.

100 % WC. Treat with Octozin,

Day 6 (tomorrow): Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.

Day 7: Treat with octozin, 100% WC
Day 9: 100% WC
Day 10: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.

Hope this makes sense, Q xx

Edited by Queens4Fish
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Thanks teletubby :)

That's really useful!

My problem there is that I started Prazi and Octozin on the same day so they are overlapping:

If I do a 100 percent change on day 7, I will be taking The prazi dose I put in the day before out of the water, so shall I wait till day 10 so they get the max amount of prazi dose?

According to the schedule + what you just gave me:

Day 5 (today) : Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.

100 % WC. Treat with Octozin,

Day 6 (tomorrow): Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.

Day 7: Treat with octozin, 100% WC

Day 9: 100% WC

Day 10: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.

Hope this makes sense, Q xx

Try this instead:

Day 5 - 100% WC, replace salt and add full dose Octozin

Day 6 - do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 7 - 100% WC, replace salt, add full dose of Octozin and Prazi (start of round 2)

Day 8 - Do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 9 - 100% WC, replace salt and Prazi

We may want to add Octozin on day 9 if you have enough left. But, we can touch base before then and decide. Let me know when the Kanaplex arrives.

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Thanks teletubby :)

That's really useful!

My problem there is that I started Prazi and Octozin on the same day so they are overlapping:

If I do a 100 percent change on day 7, I will be taking The prazi dose I put in the day before out of the water, so shall I wait till day 10 so they get the max amount of prazi dose?

According to the schedule + what you just gave me:

Day 5 (today) : Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.

100 % WC. Treat with Octozin,

Day 6 (tomorrow): Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.

Day 7: Treat with octozin, 100% WC

Day 9: 100% WC

Day 10: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.

Hope this makes sense, Q xx

Try this instead:

Day 5 - 100% WC, replace salt and add full dose Octozin

Day 6 - do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 7 - 100% WC, replace salt, add full dose of Octozin and Prazi (start of round 2)

Day 8 - Do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 9 - 100% WC, replace salt and Prazi

We may want to add Octozin on day 9 if you have enough left. But, we can touch base before then and decide. Let me know when the Kanaplex arrives.

ok, if we are switching to the 7 day prazi, will they miss out because it wasnt double dosed on day 2?....

sorry for being a pain, but they are twiching still so anxious to get as much prazi in as poss :D

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Sorry, my last post was short, but I was running to work. I conferred with the other moderators last night on how to proceed with the Octozin. The schedule I posted in post #54 above will better synchronize your med dosing and water changes. It will also help not to waste medicine and should make your life easier. We will also be able to align the Kanaplex with this if it is needed.

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NO worries. Better short than silent, ty :clapping:

I have a question though: why 100 percent water changes every other day?

Doesn't that just mean we are putting meds in and taking them all out the next day- isn't that more wasteful? :blink:

I have at least 6- 3 day treatments of octozin left... (as you know the packet says to does 3 days back to back.)

I take it you have a special reason .... * listens carefully*

thanks again

Qx

Edited by Queens4Fish
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NO worries. Better short than silent, ty :clapping:

I have a question though: why 100 percent water changes every other day?

Doesn't that just mean we are putting meds in and taking them all out the next day- isn't that more wasteful? :blink:

I have at least 6- 3 day treatments of octozin left... (as you know the packet says to does 3 days back to back.)

I take it you have a special reason .... * listens carefully*

thanks again

Qx

100% water changes reduce much of the pathogen and toxin loads that might be in the water, therefore creating a healthier environment for your sick fish. It also helps you to know exactly how much medicine is in the water. If you dose meds on day 1 after the water change (say at 9:00 am) and then do a 100% water change on day 3 (say 9:00 again), then the meds are actually in the water for 2 full days (days 1 and 2). The Octozin says that it is active for "up to" 3 days which implies less than 3 full days. This is our reason for treating every other day. Similar products like Seachem Metronidazole and Kanaplex say to dose every other day, so we feel confident that this is an appropriate course of treatment especially if you begin the Kanaplex. Lastly, as Prazi is only effectively in the water for 4 days, it also syncs up better with the every other day approach with the antibiotic powders.

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The Octozin says that it is active for "up to" 3 days which implies less than 3 full days. This is our reason for treating every other day. Similar products like Seachem Metronidazole and Kanaplex say to dose every other day, so we feel confident that this is an appropriate course of treatment especially if you begin the Kanaplex. Lastly, as Prazi is only effectively in the water for 4 days, it also syncs up better with the every other day approach with the antibiotic powders.

Thanks- I guess its just confusing because the packet says to treat with octozin 3 days back to back and leave in the water till day 8, (which I can only assume is based on getting a strong concentration in there) and the information you guys have found is not mentioned on the instructions anywhere- this my pet hate about fish keeping: everything is quite vague and somewhat contradictory, if it wasn't for the internet sometimes I wonder if Goldies would survive as long as they do.

But in the end it's the people that deal with it everyday that know what works best, which is why I came to you, so thank-you!

Is it ok if its a 80 percent water change? As it really stresses the girls being taken out of the tank (Cleo has a panting fit every-time)

Qx

Edited by Queens4Fish
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You know when you said full dose of octozin you didn't mean days 1,2,3 all in one go did you?

Just checking, because that is NOT what I have done!!!!

I said that in post #51. At that point, I understood that you had already treated on days 1, 2 and 3 per the bottle directions. I meant for you to continue treatment on day five per the schedule I posted. What have you been doing?

I did not mean add 3 days worth of meds all in one dose, if that's what you mean. How are the fish?

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OK, clarity needed.

Yes I have followed the second schedule we agreed on.

Where by we medicate and water change every other day.

Yes previous to that I had done 1 Full treatment that is :4.5 tablets per day, on days 1,2,3.

So in the schedule you have given me- it says 'full dose octozin'- which by packet instructions COULD mean putting in 3 days worth of Octozin every other day:

e.g 4.5 crushed up tablets x 3 (as 3 days is a full dose)every other day- total 13.5 tablets every other day.

I reasoned this was not what you meant.

So I put in 4.5 tablets ( the dose per day not the 3 days condensed) + prazi and water change as instructed.

Is that what you were reccommending when you said FULL DOSE?.

Qx

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Amidala (Ryu) is markedly improved no longer bottom sitting but still flashing.

Cleo is still on the bottom. I know she can move because she changes position in the tank 2 or 3 times a day,

She has developed bad sores on her left side from lying there.

I am feeding her by hand and swabbing the wounds with hydrogen peroxide very gently, which has taken the swelling and redness down.

She has white bunched nodules on her tail too...

Could it be swim bladder on top of all these nasty flukes?

.

Is there a way to confirm if she has gill flukes other than a scrape?

P.s I think we are on the same track with Octozin dosage all good!!!!! :D

Thanks x

Edited by Queens4Fish
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OK, clarity needed.

Yes I have followed the second schedule we agreed on.

Where by we medicate and water change every other day.

Yes previous to that I had done 1 Full treatment that is :4.5 tablets per day, on days 1,2,3.

So in the schedule you have given me- it says 'full dose octozin'- which by packet instructions COULD mean putting in 3 days worth of Octozin every other day:

e.g 4.5 crushed up tablets x 3 (as 3 days is a full dose)every other day- total 13.5 tablets every other day.

I reasoned this was not what you meant.

So I put in 4.5 tablets ( the dose per day not the 3 days condensed) + prazi and water change as instructed.

Is that what you were reccommending when you said FULL DOSE?.

Qx

Yes :D

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Amidala (Ryu) is markedly improved no longer bottom sitting but still flashing.

Cleo is still on the bottom. I know she can move because she changes position in the tank 2 or 3 times a day,

She has developed bad sores on her left side from lying there.

I am feeding her by hand and swabbing the wounds with hydrogen peroxide very gently, which has taken the swelling and redness down.

She has white bunched nodules on her tail too...

Could it be swim bladder on top of all these nasty flukes?

.

Is there a way to confirm if she has gill flukes other than a scrape?

P.s I think we are on the same track with Octozin dosage all good!!!!! :D

Thanks x

Okay, so we are on day 7 of Octozin. By now, I had hoped that Cleo would have shown at least some improvement. At this point, I think the only thing left to try is the Kanaplex. Do you have it, yet? It would be best to put her in a separate quarantine tank if you go this route. We also have to accept the possibility that one component of her condition has progressed too far to cure with antibiotics or is not bacterial. It could also be cancer, a blown swim bladder or a number of other things that are untreatable.

There is no way to be 100% sure of Flukes without a scrape. We have to go by symptoms and typical patterns we see when Flukes are present.

I am very pleased that Amidala is improving. I would like to keep her going with the Prazi and Octozin in the main tank. Make sure to keep the ammonia and nitrite at zero with your water changes and Prime.

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Amidala (Ryu) is markedly improved no longer bottom sitting but still flashing.

Cleo is still on the bottom. I know she can move because she changes position in the tank 2 or 3 times a day,

She has developed bad sores on her left side from lying there.

I am feeding her by hand and swabbing the wounds with hydrogen peroxide very gently, which has taken the swelling and redness down.

She has white bunched nodules on her tail too...

Could it be swim bladder on top of all these nasty flukes?

.

Is there a way to confirm if she has gill flukes other than a scrape?

P.s I think we are on the same track with Octozin dosage all good!!!!! :D

Thanks x

Okay, so we are on day 7 of Octozin. By now, I had hoped that Cleo would have shown at least some improvement. At this point, I think the only thing left to try is the Kanaplex. Do you have it, yet? It would be best to put her in a separate quarantine tank if you go this route. We also have to accept the possibility that one component of her condition has progressed too far to cure with antibiotics or is not bacterial. It could also be cancer, a blown swim bladder or a number of other things that are untreatable.

There is no way to be 100% sure of Flukes without a scrape. We have to go by symptoms and typical patterns we see when Flukes are present.

I am very pleased that Amidala is improving. I would like to keep her going with the Prazi and Octozin in the main tank. Make sure to keep the ammonia and nitrite at zero with your water changes and Prime. What round of Prazi are we on now?

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Ok... :unsure:

Kanaplex is still on it's way unfortunately.

I have a feeling that if I separate them and put her in QT she will pass away...

I have read that there are some swimbladder cures now- is this true?

Argh, so awful...

Amidala has always been the big tough cookie...I hope this will be ok for her at least and there isn't anything else wrong with her I don't know about.

Any clue what those white nodules on Cleo's tail could be? Is that what flukes look like when inside and severe?

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Ok... :unsure:

Kanaplex is still on it's way unfortunately.

I have a feeling that if I separate them and put her in QT she will pass away...

I have read that there are some swimbladder cures now- is this true?

Argh, so awful...

Amidala has always been the big tough cookie...I hope this will be ok for her at least and there isn't anything else wrong with her I don't know about.

Any clue what those white nodules on Cleo's tail could be? Is that what flukes look like when inside and severe?

It depends on what is causing the swim bladder problem (constipation, physical damage or disease) and how far it has progressed before it is treated.

The spots could be a slime coat reaction to the flukes. This is typical. Some people mistake them for Ich, but they are generally larger and don't spread to the body. Can you post a picture of the spots?

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Day 5 - 100% WC, replace salt and add full dose Octozin

Day 6 - do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 7 - 100% WC, replace salt, add full dose of Octozin and Prazi (start of round 2)

Day 8 - Do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 9 - 100% WC, replace salt and Prazi

We are on day 8- so round 2.

Can you post me the next few days of treatment? Kanaplex won't arrive till Thursday at the earliest.

Cleo's white nodules :https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwdersu8563x2xa/white%20nodules.png?dl=0

Ty

Qx

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Day 5 - 100% WC, replace salt and add full dose Octozin

Day 6 - do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 7 - 100% WC, replace salt, add full dose of Octozin and Prazi (start of round 2)

Day 8 - Do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 9 - 100% WC, replace salt and Prazi

We are on day 8- so round 2.

Can you post me the next few days of treatment? Kanaplex won't arrive till Thursday at the earliest.

Cleo's white nodules :https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwdersu8563x2xa/white%20nodules.png?dl=0

Ty

Qx

Day 5 - 100% WC, replace salt and add full dose Octozin

Day 6 - do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 7 - 100% WC, replace salt, add full dose of Octozin and Prazi (start of round 2)

Day 8 - Do nothing except Prime if necessary

Day 9 - 100% WC, replace salt and Prazi

We are on day 8- so round 2.

Can you post me the next few days of treatment? Kanaplex won't arrive till Thursday at the earliest.

Cleo's white nodules :https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwdersu8563x2xa/white%20nodules.png?dl=0

Ty

Qx

Okay, Go ahead and do another dose of Octozin after the water change tomorrow with the salt and Prazi.

Mon Day 9 - 100% WC, replace salt and Prazi

Tue Day 10 - Do nothing except Prime if necessary

Wed Day 11 - 100% WC, replace salt but not Prazi (Let's confer about dosing Octozin)

Thu Day 12 - Do nothing except Prime if necessary (Let's confer about dosing Kanaplex)

Hard to tell from the pic, but it's probably what I said: Slime coat reaction to the Flukes with possible bacterial activity.

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Hi there,

Well it is day 11 and Amidala still has a slime coat reaction to the flukes but is much better.

Cleo is still on her side.

Should I add Octozin? :idont

What happens with Prazi now?

Qxx

Edited by Queens4Fish
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