Jump to content

Red Cherry Shrimp Dying Off


LisaCGold

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

I've tried other sources (LFS and other websites), but don't get sufficient help. I thought I would try here. I started with around 12-15 RCS earlier this year. They grew to almost 50 shrimp in about 3 to 4 months. I'm down to about 30 shrimp now after about 2 months of many of them dying off and babies not surviving.

7.5 gallon tank, Aqua Clear 20 with pre-filter sponge around the intake. Anubias, marimo moss, java moss. 1/2 inch sand substrate.

Last water change about 5 days ago - 70% with substrate vacuum. Usually I just change 25% of the water and don't vacuum substrate.

Am = 0, NO2 = 0, NO3 = trace. I use API drops and Seachem NO2/NO3 test skit.

Ph = 8.2 (LFS said too high)

GH = 8 drops

kh = 3 drops

Copper = 0; Phosphate = 0

I add prime, baking soda, and GH+ booster from GLA when I do a water change.

Temperature ranged from 75 - 80F this summer. Right now water is at 76F. I double checked the temp with two different thermometers.

Females are berrying up but the babies are not surviving. I have found three dead adult shrimps yesterday and today.

They've been fed Repashy shrimp souffle every three days. I'm thinking of changing to NLS Algaemax pellets. I also give Biozyme (probiotic) about 2-3 times per week.

I use to use plant fertilizers but stopped several months ago.

The LFS recommends I not add baking soda and GH+ booster and just do 10% water changes per week. They think I should get the ph down to 7.6 slowly.

Thoughts?

Thank you ahead of time!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Here are the ingredients for Repashy Shrimp Souffle:

INGREDIENTS: Squid Meal, Spirulina Algae, Krill Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Fish Meal, Seaweed Meal, Dried Brewer’s Yeast, Stabilized Rice Bran, Ground Flaxseed, Schizochytrium Algae (Source of DHA), Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Locust Bean Gum, Potassium Citrate, Guar Gum, Taurine, RoseHips, Hibiscus Flower, Calendula Flower, Marigold Flower, Paprika, Turmeric, Salt, Calcium Propionate and Potassium Sorbate (as preservatives), Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Manganese Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Copper Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Selenium Yeast. Vitamins: (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Choline Chloride, Calcium L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement).

There is copper in it. I've used this food since the beginning. If there was a problem with the copper wouldn't it show up right away?

In any case, I'm going to change to NLS algaemax for now. There is no copper in that food.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Not if it is a small enough concentration of it. Honestly it is the only thing I could think of. Being out of the right pH could affect the development of the baby shrimp as it does affect other baby fish from other species :idont

The only other thing I could think of is if your shrimp are too inbred and are dying out as that happens after so many generations without fresh shrimp added to the colony but that doesn't sound like a likely scenario for this .

I hope someone more knowledgable can come along. The only other suggestion I have is to email planetinverts they are quite knowledgeable and might be able to help with your specific case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Could they be calcium deficient? I read that can be a problem with shrimp. Do you supplement any calcium?

I have been using the GH+ Booster from Green Leaf Aquariums. That has calcium and magnesium. Maybe not enough?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Red cherries are pretty hardy, so this is interesting. It reminds me of what I've gone through with snails. For some reason it doesn't matter the tank or inhabitants, I cannot keep snails alive. The only ones that have thrived are some little pest physa that hitched a ride on plants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I've emailed planetinverts. I've been following their instructions on raising RCS pretty much to a "T."

Until I hear from them, I'll switch food and do smaller water changes without adding baking soda and gh booster. I'll add cuttlebone (or something) for calcium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I've not raised cherry, just CRS, but I'd recommend not changing things to fast. Not adding remineralizer with a water change sounds like a really bad idea to me, unless your tap water parameters are very similar to your tank parameters. A large GH/KH swing is not good, shrimp like stable parameters.

A couple of thoughts:

Maybe you're doing to large of water changes? Not sure how your tank water compares to the WC water, if they're not close maybe you need to do smaller/slower changes?

Do you test your TDS? Maybe its climbing to high?

Have you looked to see if maybe you have something like planaria in your tank?

You might try using a shrimp specific water remineralizer. I've actually not heard people talk about using baking soda with shrimp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I've not raised cherry, just CRS, but I'd recommend not changing things to fast. Not adding remineralizer with a water change sounds like a really bad idea to me, unless your tap water parameters are very similar to your tank parameters. A large GH/KH swing is not good, shrimp like stable parameters.

A couple of thoughts:

Maybe you're doing to large of water changes? Not sure how your tank water compares to the WC water, if they're not close maybe you need to do smaller/slower changes?

Do you test your TDS? Maybe its climbing to high?

Have you looked to see if maybe you have something like planaria in your tank?

You might try using a shrimp specific water remineralizer. I've actually not heard people talk about using baking soda with shrimp.

What remineralizer do you recommend for shrimp?

I don't test the TDS. What do you use to test that?

I don't have planaria as far as I can see.

I'm going to just do 10% water changes for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Here are the ingredients for Repashy Shrimp Souffle:

INGREDIENTS: Squid Meal, Spirulina Algae, Krill Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Fish Meal, Seaweed Meal, Dried Brewer’s Yeast, Stabilized Rice Bran, Ground Flaxseed, Schizochytrium Algae (Source of DHA), Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Locust Bean Gum, Potassium Citrate, Guar Gum, Taurine, RoseHips, Hibiscus Flower, Calendula Flower, Marigold Flower, Paprika, Turmeric, Salt, Calcium Propionate and Potassium Sorbate (as preservatives), Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Manganese Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Copper Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Selenium Yeast. Vitamins: (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Choline Chloride, Calcium L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement).

There is copper in it. I've used this food since the beginning. If there was a problem with the copper wouldn't it show up right away?

In any case, I'm going to change to NLS algaemax for now. There is no copper in that food.

I have spoken to Allen Repashy regarding the copper in his foods. He reassured me that it was in such trace amounts that it was safe for copper sensitive species. Not willing to take his word for it I took the numbers he gave me, read the research and did the math. Sure enough, not enough copper to cause any damage. He also informed me that virtually all fish foods have copper in them as it is a dietary requirement, but trance amounts aren't required to be listed by law. He has recently chosen to list the copper anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I've not raised cherry, just CRS, but I'd recommend not changing things to fast. Not adding remineralizer with a water change sounds like a really bad idea to me, unless your tap water parameters are very similar to your tank parameters. A large GH/KH swing is not good, shrimp like stable parameters.

A couple of thoughts:

Maybe you're doing to large of water changes? Not sure how your tank water compares to the WC water, if they're not close maybe you need to do smaller/slower changes?

Do you test your TDS? Maybe its climbing to high?

Have you looked to see if maybe you have something like planaria in your tank?

You might try using a shrimp specific water remineralizer. I've actually not heard people talk about using baking soda with shrimp.

What remineralizer do you recommend for shrimp?

I don't test the TDS. What do you use to test that?

I don't have planaria as far as I can see.

I'm going to just do 10% water changes for now.

I use Salty Shrimp GH+ for my CRS, I'd use the GH/KH+ one for cherry though. There are quite a few others out there though. I chose Salty Shrimp because it seemed like a lot shrimp people used it for CRS. Its on the expensive side (which all shrimp stuff seems to be *sigh*), but mostly because the smallest container size lasts years, unless you have lots of tanks.

TDS is total dissolved solids. You can buy a digital tester on amazon for like $25. I'm not sure if its "needed", but its a measurement thats quick to take. Easy way to quickly remineralize your water. Get your GH where you want it and then check TDS. Now you can just use TDS when remineralizing instead of testing GH. I still spot test GH occasionally but check my TDS all the time. There are some good descriptions on the shrimp forums about TDS, mostly with CRS though.

Just threw out planaria since your parameters seem in line. They will kill shrimp and they're kind of hard to see/find.

10% water change is probably a good number to shoot for, help keep things more stable.

I think as long as shrimp are molting ok your water minerals are good, I wouldn't fuss with adding extra calcium. Maybe your big water changes are making the parameters swing to much? I know I'm much more careful with water changes with my shrimp. Any water I add is the same temperature and remineralized. I keep a couple of gallons sitting next to my tank, 1 plain ro and one remineralized. And add any water to the tank sloooowly.

I am by no means a shrimp expert though, just thought I'd throw out some of my thoughts. My experience is with more sensitive shrimp, so it might be overkill with cherries, which are suppose to be bullet proof.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thank you everyone!

Shrimp are molting fine.

I've heard from planetinverts. He likes what the LFS suggested plus he said my shrimp may have a bacterial infection and to use seachem paraguard for treatment. I'll have to research that more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

if it's more of a case that the babies are not survieing, i would say they might be to inbread, have

you tried getting some more cherry's from a diffrent source?. adding some new genetics into the mix may help

(smilar thing happened to me just the babies not living past first week)

Red cherrys are one of the hardest shrimps you can buy :)

and a great food source for other fishes, sounds cruel but trust me after they get really well set in their numbers will blow up

and, you'll be thankful for the chance to remove some and so will the fishies lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

if it's more of a case that the babies are not survieing, i would say they might be to inbread, have

you tried getting some more cherry's from a diffrent source?. adding some new genetics into the mix may help

(smilar thing happened to me just the babies not living past first week)

Red cherrys are one of the hardest shrimps you can buy :)

and a great food source for other fishes, sounds cruel but trust me after they get really well set in their numbers will blow up

and, you'll be thankful for the chance to remove some and so will the fishies lol.

I'm finding both dead adult shrimps (two yesterday) and babies not surviving.

The plan the whole time has been to fed the extra shrimp to my fish. I just need to get the population up first.

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Here is my plan:

First: Stop using baking soda. Reduce the ph slowly over time with small water changes using distilled water that has been remineralized (GH+ booster). My tap water is 8.2 ph, so I need to use some other water. Goal is 7.6 ph.

If that doesn't work then:

Second: Seachem paraguard for 14 days.

In any case, I'm going to reduce the thickness of the substrate in the tank to 1/8 inch. Right now it is about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. I'm wondering if there has been bacteria growing in the substrate since I have not been vacuuming it on a regular basis (only once a month).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

also bogwood can be used to bring ph down slowly :) (just soak it well before putting it into the tank)

and shrimp do love sitting on it and provides hideing holes for molting shrimp.

you can never go wrong with a bit of bogwood in a shrimp tank. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I've slowly lowered the ph by putting in remineralized distilled water (1 gallon) every 2-3 days (currently ph at 7.8). Also, I started using Seachem Paraguard several days ago. Since starting the paraguard, I've not had any shrimp deaths. In fact, they seem more lively and out in the open.

I'll continue to slowly lower the ph and I plan to use the paraguard for a total of 10-13 days (depending on how they do).

Just today I fed my shrimp Biomax by Genchem. They love this stuff! Or they are just feeling better. In any case, they ate up the portion I fed them in less than an hour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Regular Member

I thought I would update this thread. I slowly reduced the tank ph to around 7.6. I used Seachem Paraguard for almost three weeks at 75% of the daily dosage. I started out with 25% dosage and built up to 50% over 3-4 days. By the end of the week the daily dosage was at 75%. Over this three week time period several more shrimps died, but at a significantly reduced rate prior to treatment.

Its been about two weeks since the last Paraguard treatment. I've had a couple of more shrimps die, but I currently have three females berried

I visited an acquaintance, Wilson, who I originally purchased some of the shrimp from. His tank ph is 8.2 and gh is 6. He changes about 50% of the water per week. He keeps the temperature around 75-77F. His shrimp breed like crazy.

I've only been changing about 20% of the water per week. I'm going to change that to 50%. Wilson noticed that after a large water change, more of his shrimp get berried. I use to do large water changes, but reduced it because a lfs said it would be a good idea.

I had an under the sink water filter installed. My regular faucet water is about 8.2 ph, whereas water out of the water filter is 7.4-7.6 ph. I started using the filtered water for the shrimps.

Hopefully by increasing water changes and continuing to use the filtered water (with prime of course), the shrimpies will thrive.

Did Paraguard work? It didn't hurt. It seemed to help along with the other changes I made.

Edited by LisaCGold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...