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DawnyBee

Help/Advice for 2 poorly goldfish

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Okay, Jared or another moderator will be by soon.

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Try one more time with Metro Meds tonight and then again in the morning. If he won't eat them, I would do a 100% water change and dose the Metronidazole powder again. I don't think the Kana is a good idea at this point.

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Just seen your message Jared, I tried him again this morning and he ate a half dose so will try to get the rest into him tonight. Maybe he was just having an off day yesterday.

Is there a time limit of how long I can feed him MMs? Or is it just until he gets better?

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We generally go to 14 days. You may need to offer him several smaller meals rather than 2 big ones. Good luck :)

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I try to spread it out but have been working long hours so hasnt been possible. Didnt manage to get any in him yesterday :( id run out of garlic juice in the morning so intended to give him a few small doses to make up the full dose of the day when i got home from work with more garlic juice, but i didnt get home til gone 9pm and then he refused every attempt to feed him.

i got a half dose in him this morning. He'll only eat them when they have gone mushy in the garlic juice, any hardness at all and he spits them right out. I hope hes still getting all the goodness when they are mushy? i know its not ideal as it mucks the water and Squeesh is probably hoovering up crumbs (i know she is) but its the only way i can get him to eat them, and while id love to isolate him, or remove him to feed him its just not practical - or even possible - with my broken wrist :(

Im doing my best but im just not sure its good enough.

Will try to stay positive until he's finished the course. Still no improvement though.

Round 4 of Prazi ends tonight, is that it now?

Could i up the salt to 0.2%? Squeesh's facial wound is still not closing. It looks nice and clean but is wide open. Would that help?

My cycle has taken a battering and the Nitrites are bad, we are doing regular water changes to try to keep on top of it, just dont want to put them under any more stress from bad water after everything they have been through!

So frustrated. Cant wait to get this cast off my arm!!

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I think you are done with the Prazi. I don't think that raising the salt is necessary, either. As long as the wound is clean, I would just focus on keeping the water as perfect as possible. Keep up your efforts with feeding Norman the Metro Meds. How many days has he been on them now?

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We're on day 11 now and there were 2 days in there that he wouldn't eat them, so he's had 9 actual doses.

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We're on day 11 now and there were 2 days in there that he wouldn't eat them, so he's had 9 actual doses.

Okay, go to 14 days with the metro Meds. There's really nothing better to try at this point :hug

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It's the last day of MMs today and so far he has refused 2 attempts to feed him, after eating them all with gusto yesterday! So frustrating.

Will keep trying but if he doesn't eat any today should I try again tomorrow?

I'm going to phone a vet tomorrow who is a very experienced aquatic specialist. He's performed surgery etc on goldfish, and really cares about fish. After everything we've tried and all your help and advice with no improvement I just want to get one last opinion by someone who can see him and then decide what to do. I can't bear to let him go but I also can't bear to see him struggle any more.

I so appreciate everything you have done to help, I really feel we've given him the best possible chances so far but there's been no change in him and it's been about a month now. Fingers crossed for a miracle? I'm not giving up just yet!!

So....a last dose of MMs tomorrow if he continues I refuse today? Or is that it now?

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I would just stop the Metro Meds after today. I don't think they're helping :(

I'm sorry that he isn't responding. Let us know what the vet says.

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We have an appointment at the vets on Friday morning for an x-ray to see what's going on inside his belly. It's expensive and I have to lie to work (told them it's the dentist for me) and James also has to take time off to help me get Norman to the vets practice seeing as im still one-handed - so I'm constantly second guessing whether I should go through with it when the vet made it very clear there may be nothing he can do for him. But I figure I have to try right? After everything he's been through I don't think I can give up at the last hurdle, there's a very small chance something will show up in the x-ray that can be fixed and if we don't try then we'll never know.

If it's bad news and he's never going to get better then at least ill know I did everything for him and can make a properly informed decision on what's best for him.

Thanks again for all your help guys, you made a very stressful situation easier to bear and your advice definitely saved Squeesh at least :)

Kat if you're reading this, once I'm sorted I'll arrange to meet you and return the Kanaplex and Metro I borrowed from you :)

I'll let you all know what happens at the vets.

X

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Oh Dawn, I am so sorry he is not responding to treatment. Which vet are you taking him to? x

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I know, so sad, I'm hoping for a miracle now.

Taking him to Mr Wildgoose at the Midlands Vetinary Practice in Leyton. He gave me advice on a poorly Platy a few years ago and he was recommended by the guy who gave me the first load of Kanaplex I used. He wants to x-ray him and see what's happening in there. I'm nervous but don't think there are any other options.

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I know, so sad, I'm hoping for a miracle now.

Taking him to Mr Wildgoose at the Midlands Vetinary Practice in Leyton. He gave me advice on a poorly Platy a few years ago and he was recommended by the guy who gave me the first load of Kanaplex I used. He wants to x-ray him and see what's happening in there. I'm nervous but don't think there are any other options.

I agree that at this point, a vet is your only option if you are intent on continuing treatment. :hug

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Hopefully you get some answers, Dawn. Dr Wildgoose has a really good reputation. :hug

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Hi guys,

So I took Norman to see Mr Wildgoose today and the good news is he didn't suggest euthanasia just yet. Norman is still with us for now :)

He took some x-rays and it looks like his swim bladder is being pushed over to the right hand side by something that's going on in his left hand side - hence him always lying on his left. Mr Wildgoose's opinion was it might be something kidney related, possibly something he's always had which had just flared up. It's impossible to know for sure and also impossible to know if he'll ever get better but we are giving it one last shot. He had an injection of Baytril and I have a 10 day course of it to bathe him in for 5 hours a day. Also going to bathe Squeesh in it as he was concerned about fish TB for her and said it may help heal the hole in her face.

So there we are, Norman is currently in a bucket of 10litres of treated water with an air stone. I'll take him out at midnight and put Squeesh in then I have an alarm set to get up at 5am and take her out and that's my evening/early mornings for the next 10 days :)

There's no guarantee he'll recover but we may as well try everything at our disposal and the fact Mr Wildgoose suggested this rather than euthanasia makes me happy that it's worth a go.

I'll keep you all updated and let you know the final outcome if you like? This really is the last chance saloon so keep your fingers crossed! :)

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Baytril injections are mentioned in the Johnson and Hess book. I'm glad you have access to a vet that is familiar with this treatment and also able to administer it for you. X-rays are expensive, but take much of the guess work out of diagnosing :)

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Super expensive! But it's only money, you can't take it with you, I can work hard and earn more - Norman is part of our family, can't put a price on that.

Between all your advice and help and the vets injection and treatment he has really been given the best chance - it's down to him to pull through now. At least I know we've done everything we can. I have faith in him, GO NORMAN!! :)

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Hi guys,

Hope you are all doing well.

Just thought I'd give you a quick update on how things are this end while I still have two fish to talk about.

Yep - still got both of them, but I'll be honest I'm not sure for how much longer.

This is what has been going on:

Norman was on Baytril baths for 5 hours a day for a total of 10 days. On Mr Wildgoose's advice I bathed Squeesh in the water for 5 hours after Norman to help with her facial wound. Needless to say it was a long 10 days!

After the 10 days I was to leave it another 4 days and then phone Mr Wildgoose with an update.

I did that - the update being there was absolutely no change in Norman other than cosmetic - his skin, scales and fins looked lovely from the baths, but he is still unable to sit upright or swim. Squeesh's face remained un-infected and looked 'neat'

After updating Mr Wildgoose he advised me to give him another 2 weeks on the basis that the Baytril would kill only bacteria - so if it was bacteria causing the problems and the Baytril killed it, it may take a couple more weeks for the healing process to complete and for his swim bladder to be able to move back to its normal position.

Unfortunately the 2 weeks is up on Thursday and there is still no change.

He has been like this for 2 months now and I have tried everything at my disposal and spent a ridiculous amount of money. I've cried more tears than I can remember over this little guy and his plight, I love him with all my heart - but it is absolutely breaking my heart to see him lying on the bottom of the tank every day, unable even to get up and eat by himself. Whereas I just wasnt ready to say goodbye to him a couple of weeks ago, I now think that I can handle it and I think it would be cruel to leave him living like this any longer.

I'll give it til Thursday as there is no point giving up at the very last hurdle, and then Ill phone Mr Wildgoose and see what he thinks. He hadnt mentioned euthanasia until the phone call 2 weeks ago, but I think that is the suggestion he will be offering on Thursday. I'm so sad, but at the same time it's not fair to leave him like this. Ill let you know what happens either way. If there is any hope for a miracle between now and Thursday then keep everything crossed for him!

With regards to Squeesh - not such great news there either. Mr Wildgoose mentioned Black Moors are susceptible to eye tumours and now that I look at it and see how much it is growing, the extra flesh, the refusal to go down I'm almost certain that's what it must be. The wound has never closed but it is now just a mush of pink tissue. The entire lump is getting bigger and bigger, its quite grotesque. I'm sure she is now blind in that eye too. Once I have closure with Norman one way or another I will take her to the vet too to see what Mr Wildgoose says and if it is a tumour see what our options are. She is usually happy in herself, although she spends alot of time hovering around Norman, I think she knows he is very sick. Im hopeful there is something we can do for her to make her more comfortable or stop it growing.

Anyway - I just thought I'd update you so you didnt think I had taken all your help and advice and then just disappeared!!

I'll let you know what happens over the next couple of days.

Hope everyone is keeping well and enjoying your little fishies, Im going to go home and do a water change and sit Norman upright for a bit the poor boy.

xx

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Hi Dawn,

I'm glad you touched base. I'm sorry that the Baytril did not solve your problems. But, I think you can be sure that you have done all you can for Norman. Let us know what the vet says on Thursday :hug

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Your fishies are so blessed to have you caring for them.

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Hi guys, just thought Id let you know I put my lovely Norman and Squeesh both to sleep with clove oil last night.

Needless to say it was heartbreaking and I’ve barely stopped crying since, but I know it was for the best so that gives me a tiny bit of comfort.

I made the decision after speaking to Mr Wildgoose again. There had been no change in Norman for 2 months regardless of any treatment attempted and Mr Wildgoose felt we had done everything we could. I couldn’t leave him living like that, he couldn’t swim or eat by himself. Seeing him struggling to get up all the time and spending all day slumped in a corner was just too much, it was no life for him. I sent Mr Wildgoose photos of the growth on Squeesh’s face which had started to grow at an alarming rate, with the skin splitting all round it and her bottom sitting a lot and just generally looking miserable. He confirmed he was pretty sure it was a tumour and the only options are surgery or euthanasia. He said it couldn’t be left as it would continue to grow and it would only be a matter of time before she got an infection. Surgery would involve removing her eye and the surrounding tumour with the chance she would die on the operating table or even after the surgery. The growth was so big that taking it off would remove the majority of her face. She was always a shy, slightly skittish fish and I felt personally that putting her through the stress of an operation with no guarantee she would make it through was too much. Even if she did survive the surgery she would have missed Norman terribly, they were very close, and then she would be at massive risk of infection until everything healed. I just felt it was a lot to put her through and that it was grabbing at straws – so I made the hard decision to put her to sleep at the same time as Norman. So they went together and have been buried together. Just an empty tank now. Trying to keep reminding myself it was for the best, I hope I start to feel better about it all soon.

 

Thanks again for all the help and advice you offered, you gave me hope when I thought there was none and Im grateful that I was able to give them both every chance possible.

I had them for 3.5 years and I like to think they had a good, if rather short, life in a nice big tank with lots of care and attention. Just wish I could have kept them a bit longer.

 

Thanks again

Dawn 

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Hi Dawn,

 

I am so sorry to hear about your fish.  I do, however, think you made the right decision.  You went above and beyond what most people would have done to save those fish and you should feel at peace with your choices.  

 

I hope this doesn't discourage you from having more Goldfish in the future.  If you do decide to acquire some new fish, we will be happy to help you with them :)

 

Kind Regards,

 

Jared

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