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My Oranada has been unwell


Jye

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    • Test Results for the Following:
      • * Ammonia Level(Tank) Ammonia is 0
      • * Nitrite Level(Tank) Nitrite is 0
      • * Nitrate level(Tank) Unknown
      • * Ammonia Level(Tap) Unknown
      • * Nitrite Level(Tap) Unknown
      • * Nitrate level(Tap) Unknown
      • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Unknown only know Kh, Kh is 90
      • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Unknown
      • Other Required Info:
        • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API, Drops
        • * Water temperature? 24 degrees Celsius
        • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 4.22 Gallons and has been established for 4 months (This is currently a holding tank i have a 150 litre i am moving them into soon.)
        • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Its a aqua one Hang Filter, it is rated for a 100 Litre tank.
        • * How often do you change the water and how much? Once or Twice a Week water change.
    • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 3 days ago, 20%.
    • * How many fish in the tank and their size? There are 2 Orandas, and 2 Ranchus. They are about 3 to 4 cm long (just the body).
    • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? I use Betta water conditioner.
    • * What do you feed your fish and how often? 2 times a day, in the morning at at night.
    • * Any new fish added to the tank? No.
    • * Any medications added to the tank? No.
    • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. There is no treatment.
    • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? He has red spots under gill and next to mouth.
    • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He has been sitting at the bottom of the tank under my plants but today is hanging out the top of the tank. I have also not seen him eat for about a week.
  • Just over a week ago I found my oranda literally stuck to my heater as he got stuck between the heater and the glass over night. In the morning i peeled him off the heater and he seemed happy. When i got up the next morning he was sitting at the bottom of the tank and not moving much but still breathing. For the past few days he has just sit at the bottom of the tank and I have not yet seen him eat. This morning i saw him swimming around a little bit and staying in the top corner. Can some one please help me, If he is not better soon i think he may die from starvation. What should I do?. Thanks
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I'm sorry about your fish. Can you get test kits for the nitrate and ph? Please test tank and tap.

Since you have 4 small fish in a 4 gallon tank, you should just feed once a day and change water completely at least twice a day. This will help to maintain the water conditions that goldfish need to stay healthy. On kokos we recommend one goldfish per 20 gallons and water changes of at least once a week of 50% or more. Hopefully you can get a larger tank soon.

Have you treated your fish for flukes before? If not, you'll want to get praziquantel.

A moderator will be by to give further instruction.

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I doubt it could be my water conditions as the other 3 goldfish are all healthy. I will try the Prazi after school, could it be a bacterial infection?.

Lisa is right, 4 gallons is not a suitable home for 4 orandas. Twice daily water changes will help to maintain water quality until you upgrade. A mod should be along soon to help you out, good luck!

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I doubt it could be my water conditions as the other 3 goldfish are all healthy. I will try the Prazi after school, could it be a bacterial infection?.

Yes, red spots like that can be indicative of a bacterial infection ... or an injury. Can you pick up the fish and gently feel his belly, and let us know if it feels soft and mushy? If you have not done this before, I would recommend that you do this with each of your fish to see if there is any difference.

The Praziquantel is for fluke parasite treatment. I believe in Australia it is sold in tablet form. Most if not all goldfish have flukes, and the praziquantel reduces the population to prevent them from causing damage to the fish. It is recommended that goldfish be treated with this medication every six months. Here is a link to the treatment protocol: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/105076-schedules-for-the-treatment-of-flukes-etc-using-praziquantel/

Larger and more frequent water changes were suggested because the tank you are holding them in is so small. The standard recommendation here is to change at least 50% weekly, but that's with 15-20 gallons per fish. There are other toxins that build up in a tank besides the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate that we can test for. Another reason is because you have a sick fish, and even in a 10-gallon QT tank containing one sick fish it is recommended to change 100% of the water daily to assist the fish in healing. A regular supply of clean water makes a world of difference to a sick fish. :)

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I will do a 50% water change as I will feel uneasy doing a full water change as i have had bad experiences with doing large water changes . I will feel his belly when I get home, what does it mean if he has a soft or hard belly?. Thanks for the info so far :thumbup2:

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Jye, I am sorry your fish is ill. Many of us have started out with tiny tanks and fish that became ill because of their conditions. We understand.

It is important now to get the fish into a larger space and more water. Plastic sterilite containers (clear plastic) and even children's swimming pools will work. No treatment can be suggested for a fish in a 4 gallon tank with 3 others. Changing all the water twice a day (and using a water treatment like Prime) will improve the conditions but not solve the problem.

My best advice. Move the three healthy fish over to the 150 litre immediately. Place the ill fish in a sterlite container that holds at least 45 litres.

A moderator can then offer treatment suggestions for the ill fish.

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I will do a 50% water change as I will feel uneasy doing a full water change as i have had bad experiences with doing large water changes . I will feel his belly when I get home, what does it mean if he has a soft or hard belly?. Thanks for the info so far :thumbup2:

Please provide your tap, nitrate and pH results, as well. 100% water changes shouldn't be an issue if you are changing the water once or twice a week and your tap parameters are OK. Problems with large water changes are normally seen with people who either don't change the water very often or who have vast differences between their tap and tank results.

A soft and mushy belly can be indicative of a bacterial infection; the belly should be quite firm in a healthy fish. But please wait for a mod to come along before adding any medications to your tank. If any medications are needed, the fish will need to be in its own tank. I would pick up a 10 gallon (38 L) tank or something like motherredcap recommended.

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you may had a bad experience of doing a 100% water change if the PH is to low or it drops... It is very important to have all your water quality numbers to help you.....

Also as stated your tank is way way to small even for one fish.... Goldfish need atleast 20 gallons per fish... They are big and make alot of waste....

Please for us to help you, you need to help your self and try to do these things.... The tank is so small that one fish is showing signs of either flukes or some other bacterial infection, which means the water quality isnt that great. Just cause one is showing signs of stress doesnt mean the other wont follow soon.

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One thing to consider is that although the other fish seem ok now, it doesn't mean they are not more susceptible to contracting the illness your Oranda has now since they are in very unideal conditions. I am actually wondering if you need a new test kit because 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite in a 4 gallon tank with 4 fish that gets too small of water changes is nearly impossible.

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I doubt it could be my water conditions as the other 3 goldfish are all healthy. I will try the Prazi after school, could it be a bacterial infection?.

hey Jye

Look for Blue planet fluke and tapeworm tablets at city farmers (or your local pet stores.. where abouts in Australia are you?)

Bottle looks like this : http://www.petcircle.com.au/product/blue-planet-fluke-tapeworm-tablets

also, if money is an issue, Bunnings have these awesome tubs for like $16 each. They hold water very well and do not bow.

i bought two, and each one can easily hold 50L. (using them for fry and QT etc).

http://www.bunnings.com.au/storage-crate-handy-storage-54l-652x413x282-blue-hclbl_p2580613

(the website says $23, but i definitely bought mine for $16 :P )

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Thanks for the help every one but so unfortunately he passed away while i was treating him with the prazi. I have moved the other 3 into big containers and I replace the water 2 times a day. The reason that the fish have been in the little tank for so long was that i had to pay for stitches for my dog after she got into a fight :( (it cost $800 for anaesthetic and stitches), so i was unable to purchase the necessary filter for the tank. Today how ever I got enough to get the filter and i am picking it up today which means I can start cycling the tank. I would like to thank all of you for helping me and teaching me some valuable points.

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One thing to consider is that although the other fish seem ok now, it doesn't mean they are not more susceptible to contracting the illness your Oranda has now since they are in very unideal conditions. I am actually wondering if you need a new test kit because 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite in a 4 gallon tank with 4 fish that gets too small of water changes is nearly impossible.

The thing is that they where both 0 i tested with new test kits as well. I believe that the amount of plants i have (its a heavily planted aquarium) help with removing nitrates and continuing the nitrogen cycle. (Waste-Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate-Plant Matter)

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I am very sorry for your loss. [emoji17]

From what I've read, aquatic plants are great at consuming ammonia but aren't so great at removing nitrate. Some people here use typically land-based plants in their aquarium to help with the nitrate, such as bamboo and pothos. I am not sure what kind of plants you have, but many people have reported success with this. I don't speak from experience, though - my tank is apparently one of the few that contains nitrate-consuming bacteria, so mine is 0 all the time. [emoji4]

Either way, it's very cool that you have a planted tank. I started one myself several months ago and it's been quite an adventure. [emoji4]

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