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Wilbur is Sick


amoonklein

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Hi guys,

I've been away from the forum for a while for some personal reasons (some minor medical stuff for me and the pets) and this wasn't the way that I wanted to jump back into things after being gone, but Wilbur is sick and I could really use your help. Wilbur has been moved to a 10 gallon QT tank, no filter has been set up yet.

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) Main Tank 0ppm, QT .5ppm
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) Main Tank 0ppm, QT 0ppm
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) Main Tank between 5-10ppm, QT approximately 5ppm
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) Approximately .5ppm
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0ppm
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) Approximately 5ppm
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Main and QT between 8.0-8.2 (KH Approximately 7-8)
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Between 8.0 - 8.2 (KH approximately 5-6. I add baking soda to keep it stable)
  • Other Required Info:
    • * How often do you change the water and how much? About once a week, between 80%-90%
    • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Two Marineland C-360 canister filters for 720GPH
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? Originally had a 65 gallon tank cycled since about March (I think?), then transferred everything to a 75 gallon, which has been running for a few months (May... I think)
    • * Water temperature? Main and QT are 77F
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Drop Test
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Friday, 8/22/2014, 90%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 fancies (an oranda, oranda/chu, and chu), Wilbur and Humphrey are about 5-6" and Winnie is almost 4"
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Main Tank: Prime, Baking Soda. QT: Prime, Baking Soda, and currently 1.5 teaspoons fine kosher salt (for a .2% concentration)
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? It varies... Mostly a Repashy mixture of meat pie, soilent green, and super green. I also feed a variety of frozen foods, throw in a few fasting days here and there followed by peas, and they also get NLS 1mm pellets. I stopped giving them Saki Hikari because Wilbur is a floaty boy... although lately, almost everything has made him a bit floaty
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No... just the salt but I have medications on hand (Metro Meds and Hikari PraziPro)
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Only salt was added for an initial QT period for the fish originally... plus the salt that was added to Wilbur's QT tank.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Please see below for a full detailed description
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Please see below

OK... Friday, I did a large water change because Hubby and I were left to go out of town at the crack of dawn Saturday, the 23rd. Things seemed very normal, nothing unusual for the fishies and water params were good. I gave them some Repashy Super Green. Wilbur was a bit floaty afterward, but lately he has been getting floaty after meals so I didn't think too much of it. I thought a few days fasting would do them some good, in case he was constipated or something.

Side note: The fishies have always been surface pipers, especially after meals and if Wilbur pipes at the surface longer than the others, he gets floaty or his swimbladder is a bit off for a few hours but usually rites itself by morning. I checked the oxygen of the tank and it's 8ppm with the tank temp around 77.5, so I wasn't too concerned about a problem with dissolved oxygen. I have Prazi Pro on hand and though once I got back into town, a Prazi treatment may do them good to rule out flukes... I haven't had a change to do that yet.

Back on track... While out of town, my Mom has been watching the animals and she sends me a text message on Monday, 8/25 with a video showing Wilbur being floaty, but with his head up (facing towards the top of the tank). I was a little concerned, as they hadn't eaten since late Friday, but I asked her to keep an eye on him.

Tuesday, 8/26 she sent me another text with a video showing him in the same position followed by another video showing him in that position, but it looked like he was stuck next to the filter intake. I asked her to look super close and his tail stuck to the filter intake. I had her immediately shut off the filters and he was released and started floating around, but wasn't really swimming. She checked to make sure his gills were still moving (yes, but slowly). I had her add some bloodworms to the tank to see if he was interested in food. He tried swimming around a bit and could rite himself but didn't get any bloodworms and ended up in that same position, head up, tail down.

With instruction, my Mom was able to set-up the 10 gallon QT for him with 3/4 teaspoon salt and just an airstone so he could get settled. Later, I had her feed him 1 pea, which he happily ate. Later he would swim around a bit, but settle/rest in that same position, almost resting on his tail.

Wednesday, 8/24 was the same. I had my Mom do a 100% water change for him later in the evening and increase the salt an additional 3/4 teaspoon.

Thursday we were on the road to come home and I arrived very early this morning. The first thing I did was come check on him. He is still resting in that position and his gill movement is good, but his tail is frayed and tattered, there are a few red spots on his face next to his eye (maybe he bumped into something in the main tank?), and I noticed that his scales are pineconing :( He isn't full blown porcupine, but they are definitely prickly.

I'm hoping whatever is going on, I caught it early enough?! I just wish I wasn't out of town when this happened, but I am thankful my Mom was there caretaking because I would have felt lost without her.

Before I got home, my original intention was to get the tank to a .3% salt concentration and see how he did, but now that I know he's starting to pinecone, he needs epsom salt instead. I'm planning on doing a 100% water change in the next few minutes and I will add 1/4 teaspoon epsom salt and will wait for further instruction. I have kosher salt, epsom salt, Metro Meds (unopened packet), and Prazi Pro handy.

Sorry for the long backstory, but I thought the more information the better. Thank you so much in advance for any advice you may have... I have a sad face at the moment, but I know Wilbur is a fighter, so whatever is going on, we will kick it's butt!!!

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:hi. Sorry Wilbur isn't feeling well. :hi5 to mom for helping out.

Get him in Epsom as you said then please post a pic or video ASAP so we can decide on a treatment plan. :hug

Is he interested in eating? Have you seen any poo?

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I'm so sorry! That must have been really hard to be gone while all that was going on, but it sounds like your mom really came through for you. :) I hope things improve quickly for Wilbur, and you!

Thank you, Kathleen. My Mom has rocked it :)

:hi. Sorry Wilbur isn't feeling well. :hi5 to mom for helping out.

Get him in Epsom as you said then please post a pic or video ASAP so we can decide on a treatment plan. :hug

Is he interested in eating? Have you seen any poo?

Hi Lisa. Yes, I told my Mom I am forever indebted and that she is an awesome Emergency Doctor/Transporter.

Water change is done and he's chilling in QT with 1/4 teaspoon epsom.

I will get some videos/photos and post back asap!!!

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He is definitely interested in food. Before I knew he was pineconed, I had my mom giving him peas over the last few days. And I fed him 1 pea this morning. That's when I realized he was pineconed. I'm happy he has an appetite :D

OK... here are a few pictures:

This was him Wednesday in his resting position:

IMG_1848_zpsgbrny3o3.jpg

This is him in his current resting position. Looking better than before:

20140829_134843_zpsvgxpicuq.jpg

This shows his tail:

20140829_131952_zps6qdpx3yx.jpg

Some videos:

This is when my Mom found him on Wednesday stuck to the intake :( Sorry for the quality, it was a text message video:

This is when she set up his QT on Wednesday, looking a bit better:

While waiting for his water change:

This is today after his water change. He is swimming around a bit more and his resting position is less tilted. It's tough to see, but when he swims at certain angles, you can see his pineconing:

EDIT: Fixed the link on the last video

Edited by amoonklein
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I'm on my phone and it isn't letting me watch the videos. I will be in the car and unable to watch the videos for quite a while. You might want to hit the Report button to get someone else on the mod team to take a look. I can't find that on my phone either. :peeka

#OldSchool

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I'm on my phone and it isn't letting me watch the videos. I will be in the car and unable to watch the videos for quite a while. You might want to hit the Report button to get someone else on the mod team to take a look. I can't find that on my phone either. :peeka

#OldSchool

LOL... silly technology not letting us use technology! Thanks for trying, Lisa :) Hugs! I'll hit report.

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I just had problems with my goldfish yesterday but she is doing much better today, so I sure hope Wilbur feels better soon too! He sure is being a trooper so far! Good Luck! :)

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I just had problems with my goldfish yesterday but she is doing much better today, so I sure hope Wilbur feels better soon too! He sure is being a trooper so far! Good Luck! :)

Thank you! Happy to hear that your goldie is feeling better and I hope Wilbur follows in her footsteps :)

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Hi Allie,

You've summoned me! :rofl :rofl :rofl

I'm sorry Wilbur is having some issues, and hopefully we can help him, and quickly. I am going to want to read your posts again before coming up with a more comprehensive plan, but I do want to address a couple of points really quickly.

1. The possible pineconing. I admit that I have looked as closely, but I do trust your judgment. So, whatever we do, we need to take this into consideration.

2. Skinniness...one of the things that strikes me is that he seems to be on the skinny side. Has he gained or lost weight since the time he's been with you? How are the others doing in terms of weight? Does Wilbur eat less?

What I am trying to get at is that it's possible that he may be harboring some internal parasites. That, along with the pineconing, allows me to be very comfortable in suggestion metronidazole as part of the treatment. Let's get the powder to add to the water, since I am unsure that he will get a full dose by eating.

I may want to add another antibiotic as part of the water treatment, both to treat the tail issue, as get as a general treatment, but I would like to sit on that for a tad. However, if you can, I would like to start the metronidazole as soon as possible. I'd like to use 200 mg metro per 10 gallons, please.

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Hi Allie,

You've summoned me! :rofl :rofl :rofl

I'm sorry Wilbur is having some issues, and hopefully we can help him, and quickly. I am going to want to read your posts again before coming up with a more comprehensive plan, but I do want to address a couple of points really quickly.

1. The possible pineconing. I admit that I have looked as closely, but I do trust your judgment. So, whatever we do, we need to take this into consideration.

2. Skinniness...one of the things that strikes me is that he seems to be on the skinny side. Has he gained or lost weight since the time he's been with you? How are the others doing in terms of weight? Does Wilbur eat less?

What I am trying to get at is that it's possible that he may be harboring some internal parasites. That, along with the pineconing, allows me to be very comfortable in suggestion metronidazole as part of the treatment. Let's get the powder to add to the water, since I am unsure that he will get a full dose by eating.

I may want to add another antibiotic as part of the water treatment, both to treat the tail issue, as get as a general treatment, but I would like to sit on that for a tad. However, if you can, I would like to start the metronidazole as soon as possible. I'd like to use 200 mg metro per 10 gallons, please.

Hi Alex :D Thanks to Lisa, you have been summoned :)

Thank you for jumping in. Now that you mention it and look through pictures, he does seem more skinny than when I got him. :( Poor guy. His appetite is great and he always eats a good amount... the same if not a little more than Winnie and Humphrey and both of them seem to be keeping a stable weight. If Wilbur has an internal parasite, is there a good chance that the other two may have it as well?

I will work on getting the Metro powder. Is this something that I might be able to easily buy at an LFS or something I'd need to order online?

Also, slight hiccup but probably no biggie... I have to leave again tonight and won't be returning until Sunday evening, but my Mom will be here watching the animals again and she's been an awesome caretaker so far so I totally trust her to help while I'm out.

In the meantime... should I add an HOB and put in media from the main tank or continue to do 100% daily water changes?

Thank you thank you!!

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I thought he looked skinny just from the still shots I could see.

You can get powdered metro at locally owned pet stores. Petsmart and Petco don't carry it. Do you have a good lps? If so, give them a call. Otherwise it can be ordered online. :). If you do have to order it, you may also want to get whichever antibiotic Alex wants to possibly add later. :)

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I thought he looked skinny just from the still shots I could see.

You can get powdered metro at locally owned pet stores. Petsmart and Petco don't carry it. Do you have a good lps? If so, give them a call. Otherwise it can be ordered online. :). If you do have to order it, you may also want to get whichever antibiotic Alex wants to possibly add later. :)

I'd like for him to get in on the metro ASAP, if possible. If that means using General Cure for the first few days, it's fine. :)

You can use a filter to keep a current going, but I always advocate daily water changes in addition to everything else. :)

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I thought he looked skinny just from the still shots I could see.

You can get powdered metro at locally owned pet stores. Petsmart and Petco don't carry it. Do you have a good lps? If so, give them a call. Otherwise it can be ordered online. :). If you do have to order it, you may also want to get whichever antibiotic Alex wants to possibly add later. :)

There are 2 local stores I can call that may have it. I'm calling them now to see if they have the powder in stock.

I thought he looked skinny just from the still shots I could see.

You can get powdered metro at locally owned pet stores. Petsmart and Petco don't carry it. Do you have a good lps? If so, give them a call. Otherwise it can be ordered online. :). If you do have to order it, you may also want to get whichever antibiotic Alex wants to possibly add later. :)

I'd like for him to get in on the metro ASAP, if possible. If that means using General Cure for the first few days, it's fine. :)

You can use a filter to keep a current going, but I always advocate daily water changes in addition to everything else. :)

Sounds good to me! I will let you guys know what I am able to get my hands on this afternoon. I will add the HOB just for mechanical filtration then and will keep up with his daily water changes... I'm sure he'll like constant clean water :)

Many thanks!

I'll update asap.

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Okie dokie! Successful mission! I picked up a 5 gram tube of Seachem Metronidazole powder at a local spot :) Whoot!

The directions say to use 1-2 measures (each measure is about 100mg) per 10 gallons. Would you like me to follow these instructions or would you like me to add a different dose? Is it OK to add this with the epsom salt that is already in there?

Also, can I feed him as I normally would or should I also feed him the Metro Meds?

Thanks so much!

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I think Alex said 200 mg per 10 gallons. Still on my phone but I think that's what he said on the previous page. You can use metro with Epsom. And don't feed MMs at this time. Feed normally. :)

I'm do glad you were able to find it locally. Great news! :rockon

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Your right, Lisa. Sorry about that, I totally glanced right over his instruction. Oops! I will add 200mg to his tank now and will give him some repashy for dinner. Poor guy needs to bulk back up.

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Thanks Lisa and Alex for your help today and to my kokos peeps that posted their support. You guys are wonderful. Meds are in the tank and he has had dinner. He seems to be more active this evening, which is very good. Many hugs and thanks to such a great community. Good night :)

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