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SweetMamaKaty

Finley & Franklin's First Fry

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I raised the water level to 5" today. They are so funny - they have started to associate me with food! I also noticed they seem to be getting lighter in color, so I wanted to make a note of it.

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The water quality started going downhill really quickly, so I raised it to 6" and put the sponge filter back in. WAY better! I don't know if it wasn't working quite right when I tried it the first time, or if the need just wasn't as great then... but it's helped tremendously now. I also put in a little salvinia that I bought not knowing for sure what it was and didn't work with the filters in the main tank. New video should be ready tomorrow. :)

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The sponge filter might be working better because your water level is higher. :)

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The sponge filter might be working better because your water level is higher. :)

Ah ha! I really appreciate the suggestion, because it has made a world of difference!

Short new video. Not only are they hard to photograph, they're getting hard for me to get videos without giving the viewer motion sickness. :P So I tried a different method this time. :)

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Adorable little babies :D They look healthy and happy! :thumb:

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They are so sweet!

Adorable little babies :D They look healthy and happy! :thumb:

Thank you both :)

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New photos and videos today!

The fry are 8.5 weeks old, and I'm eagerly watching for colors to start and eyes to start telescoping... nothing on either front yet. :)

There are three that seem like veiltails to me, they have incredibly long fins. Interestingly, they are the ones I was worried about from a few weeks ago. Two of them continue to be smaller than the rest, while the one who had the tail defect is now the largest of all. At least two of them have poor balance though. I think the largest struggles because the tail is not symmetrical, but so large. And one of the smaller two... well I'm not sure if it's blind or what - when I put food in, it can smell it, but pecks around furiously on the wrong side of the tank. When it finally makes its way to the food, it seems to completely loses its balance. Somersaulting and swimming upside down while eating and hunting for the next bite.

The pictures and videos today are in a different light. I wanted to show HOW golden they look, but I'm not sure it really worked. :P

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IMG_8011_zps64b88d4b.jpg

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Wow, 146 minutes left on the video upload... I guess I will come back to post that later. :)

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Amazing! So many healthy little fishies!

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Amazing! So many healthy little fishies!

Thank you - I see yours are doing well, and I'm a little jealous that they have color already! :)

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Cuties!! :D

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I can't wait to see when their eyes get the Telescope look to them! Telescope goldfish are my favorite kind of Goldfish next to Pom-pom goldfish :)

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Awww can't wait to see them when they are bigger with telescope eyes :)

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Beautyfull! You have done very well! :pease:

I see they will be 2 months tomorrow? Soon they will develop telescope eyes aswell!

What is your feeding and WC regime, treatments for flukes planned? It seems you are feeding BBS mostly, if you are planning to start feeding pellets you would need to treat for flukes aswell, BBS is a very clean foodsource but will be limiting in their development after 2 months. Especially when you decide to let a few go to new homes getting them used to a good pellet food would be beneficial. Probably many more options, but mine did very well when i gradually changed them to Hikari purple crushed up a bit.

Have you thought about what you are going to do with the spawn, selected the keepers?

Sorry if i missed any info in the previous pages.

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Beautyfull! You have done very well! :pease:

I see they will be 2 months tomorrow? Soon they will develop telescope eyes aswell!

What is your feeding and WC regime, treatments for flukes planned? It seems you are feeding BBS mostly, if you are planning to start feeding pellets you would need to treat for flukes aswell, BBS is a very clean foodsource but will be limiting in their development after 2 months. Especially when you decide to let a few go to new homes getting them used to a good pellet food would be beneficial. Probably many more options, but mine did very well when i gradually changed them to Hikari purple crushed up a bit.

Have you thought about what you are going to do with the spawn, selected the keepers?

Sorry if i missed any info in the previous pages.

Thank you for the compliment. :)

Feeding - 4x day, alternating between Repashy Spawn & Grow gel food and BBS - That is a great point about the BBS limiting, I had started to wonder how much longer to continue with it, and was about to order more - maybe I will reconsider that. What about protein though? They like bloodworms, but for the expense BBS seems more economical - could I just make larger batches maybe? Also a great point about preparing them for the food they will be eating when they leave me, I had not considered that.

Water Changes - since adding the sponge filter, I've been doing approx 80% every day or every other day.

Flukes - I've been treating with Prazi Pro approx every three weeks for four days each time. My next round will start Sun, 10/26.

Of the 15 fry, I'm planning on trading about 7-10 to my local pet store in the next few weeks (as soon as the eyes develop and they can see that they are teles). Then I'm planning on raising the remainder until August when the next AGA show/auction is in my state. I originally planned on just selling them at the auction, but if any are nice enough it would be really fun to try showing one. :blush: Ultimately I would like to keep two for myself, and I am keeping my ears open for anyone here on Koko's who is interested. Now for which ones for each of these things, I'm not totally sure. :) I keep watching them for good or bad traits - the prettiest long fins have balance issues, so I'm torn on them. Short fused tails will automatically go to the LFS in the first batch to leave.

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Thank you for the compliment. :)

Feeding - 4x day, alternating between Repashy Spawn & Grow gel food and BBS - That is a great point about the BBS limiting, I had started to wonder how much longer to continue with it, and was about to order more - maybe I will reconsider that. What about protein though? They like bloodworms, but for the expense BBS seems more economical - could I just make larger batches maybe? Also a great point about preparing them for the food they will be eating when they leave me, I had not considered that.

Water Changes - since adding the sponge filter, I've been doing approx 80% every day or every other day.

Flukes - I've been treating with Prazi Pro approx every three weeks for four days each time. My next round will start Sun, 10/26.

Of the 15 fry, I'm planning on trading about 7-10 to my local pet store in the next few weeks (as soon as the eyes develop and they can see that they are teles). Then I'm planning on raising the remainder until August when the next AGA show/auction is in my state. I originally planned on just selling them at the auction, but if any are nice enough it would be really fun to try showing one. :blush: Ultimately I would like to keep two for myself, and I am keeping my ears open for anyone here on Koko's who is interested. Now for which ones for each of these things, I'm not totally sure. :) I keep watching them for good or bad traits - the prettiest long fins have balance issues, so I'm torn on them. Short fused tails will automatically go to the LFS in the first batch to leave.

I fed BBS exclusively for the first month, second month i introduced high proteine dry foods and kept the BBS on the same amount but added more and more dry foods(small colour enhancing crumble, spirulina etc). Then at month 3 i switched gradually to a small grower pellet (1,5mm) and DIY gelfood. After introducing dry foods(50-60% proteine) i noticed some were growing in bodymass faster and others slowed down a bit. Food is also a tool in grooming fish, various foodsources will not only promote growth, but also body mass, depth and muscle structure(big back and peduncle). This will then influence their tail development aswell.

I think the high proteine dry foods in combination with gelfoods are a good way to grow out fry, bloodworms would be better but i cannot source any quality FBW (like Hikari) where i live.

A combination of any of these foods would be even better, but i would recommend to get them used to eating pellets before you take the fish to the LFS or rehome them.

An imbalance in the tail will not restore itself i'm afraid. :no:

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Thank you for the compliment. :)

Feeding - 4x day, alternating between Repashy Spawn & Grow gel food and BBS - That is a great point about the BBS limiting, I had started to wonder how much longer to continue with it, and was about to order more - maybe I will reconsider that. What about protein though? They like bloodworms, but for the expense BBS seems more economical - could I just make larger batches maybe? Also a great point about preparing them for the food they will be eating when they leave me, I had not considered that.

Water Changes - since adding the sponge filter, I've been doing approx 80% every day or every other day.

Flukes - I've been treating with Prazi Pro approx every three weeks for four days each time. My next round will start Sun, 10/26.

Of the 15 fry, I'm planning on trading about 7-10 to my local pet store in the next few weeks (as soon as the eyes develop and they can see that they are teles). Then I'm planning on raising the remainder until August when the next AGA show/auction is in my state. I originally planned on just selling them at the auction, but if any are nice enough it would be really fun to try showing one. :blush: Ultimately I would like to keep two for myself, and I am keeping my ears open for anyone here on Koko's who is interested. Now for which ones for each of these things, I'm not totally sure. :) I keep watching them for good or bad traits - the prettiest long fins have balance issues, so I'm torn on them. Short fused tails will automatically go to the LFS in the first batch to leave.

I fed BBS exclusively for the first month, second month i introduced high proteine dry foods and kept the BBS on the same amount but added more and more dry foods(small colour enhancing crumble, spirulina etc). Then at month 3 i switched gradually to a small grower pellet (1,5mm) and DIY gelfood. After introducing dry foods(50-60% proteine) i noticed some were growing in bodymass faster and others slowed down a bit. Food is also a tool in grooming fish, various foodsources will not only promote growth, but also body mass, depth and muscle structure(big back and peduncle). This will then influence their tail development aswell.

I think the high proteine dry foods in combination with gelfoods are a good way to grow out fry, bloodworms would be better but i cannot source any quality FBW (like Hikari) where i live.

A combination of any of these foods would be even better, but i would recommend to get them used to eating pellets before you take the fish to the LFS or rehome them.

An imbalance in the tail will not restore itself i'm afraid. :no:

Great info, thank you!

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I fed BBS exclusively for the first month, second month i introduced high proteine dry foods and kept the BBS on the same amount but added more and more dry foods(small colour enhancing crumble, spirulina etc). Then at month 3 i switched gradually to a small grower pellet (1,5mm) and DIY gelfood. After introducing dry foods(50-60% proteine) i noticed some were growing in bodymass faster and others slowed down a bit. Food is also a tool in grooming fish, various foodsources will not only promote growth, but also body mass, depth and muscle structure(big back and peduncle). This will then influence their tail development aswell.

I think the high proteine dry foods in combination with gelfoods are a good way to grow out fry, bloodworms would be better but i cannot source any quality FBW (like Hikari) where i live.

A combination of any of these foods would be even better, but i would recommend to get them used to eating pellets before you take the fish to the LFS or rehome them.

An imbalance in the tail will not restore itself i'm afraid. :no:

They are taking to the pellets really well! So far I have given them Omega One (33% crude protein) and Hikari Lionhead (45% crude protein) because that's what I have on hand. But I'm wondering about the Saki Hikari line, and wondering which one I should choose. I think we are past the blue bag stage because they are already an inch long before the tail. I'm thinking maybe a combination of green and purple, but I need to just buy one bag right now instead of both. I wonder which would provide something different from the Hikari Lionhead that I already have... :hummm

Lionhead

91s23JlXsJL._SL1500_.jpg

Blue: Baby Diet

For All types of Baby Goldfish

For 3cm or shorter

Green: Balance

Basic Diet - Growth (Mini pellet)

For All types of Fancy Goldfish

For approx. 3cm/1in min. Length of Fish

*cannot find image of back of bag to compare

Purple: Color Enhancing

Ideal for all goldfish varieties

For 3cm or longer

91Krl%2B5w3jL._SL1500_.jpg

Red: Extreme Color Enhancing

For all types of fancy goldfish

For 2cm or longer

*cannot find image of back of bag to compare

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I use the Hikari purple alot for the fry, it is proteine rich and easy to digest. The lionhead is not as easy to digest i think, the pellets are also quite hard and i dont think they are good for fry personally.

A combination of green and purple might be good aswell, it seems the green is even easier to digest. Any of these have a probiotic system which i prefer over pellets without probiotics. I must say i dont know what it exactly does, but the waste seems less given some time to work on the fish and the excrements seem more consistent in colour.

I also mixed the purple (crushed up a bit like a crumble) with a tiny grower pellet to offer different sources of proteine. I personally do not think the proteine count is most important in a grower pellet, the digestibility and it not being too fatty is. Ive read that too much fat and (chemically produced)colour enhancers can way heavy on the fry's liver at young age. This seems no different with adult FG, i even prefer to feed gelfood exclusively for adult ranchu.

There is a nice read here on the forum about colour changing and probiotics(scroll down a bit)

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

The beneficial effects are not all researched and documented, there are also different kind of probiotic systems but hikari has a well proven systems and is used by many goldfish and koi keepers around the world.

I do admit a more natural foodsource like bloodworm would be highly preferable for the fish, but like ive said earlier, i think a pellet and gelfood diet for fry (or adults) is a good way to feed the fish.

Just to be my overcautious self again, do make sure you introduce the pellets and probiotics gradually, fry can react strongly to changes in their diet.

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Thank you Hinfin! I did have a scare with one of the longer tailed ones last night. It was already prone to balance issues, but was flipping and floating upside down. So it makes perfect sense since I did two meals of pellets yesterday. I will move forward much more slowly, and probably go with the green bag -thank you for that info! I would love to do more bloodworms myself, but the expense is more than I want until there are fewer of them here in a few weeks. :)

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No problem, glad i can help out.

You might see more balance or even beginning swimbladder issues while raising waterlevel gradually aswell. Allthough these issues may pass after some time adapting to the new situation, these are not the strongest fry i think.

I made the mistake of changing their diet to dry foods suddenly while increasing their water depth and ended up culling a fair part of the fry for balance/SB issues at the next cull. Allthough very hard on me on that moment, i am glad to say i had no SB or balance issues in the fry since. Like ive said before, my primary goal is to breed healthy fish, some may be not the prettiest but they are well balanced, healthy and strong :flex::fishtank:

I know it might seem pellets are inferior to natural foodsources like FBW, do note that even the most renowned breeders also feed dry foods and a good part even feeds pellets exclusively. To any kind of fishfood there are positive and negative aspects and by observing the fish we can determin the quality of the diet we provide. Crushing the pellets up a bit in a mortar does make it easier for the fry.

The debate about dry foods vs. wet foods is very interesting to keep investigating into. It has proven worthwile for me to feed wet foods as the fish' last feed and not to feed this last feed too late(around dinnertime). You could try this if you have gelfood in their diet anyway.

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