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snowdrop89

Oranda dead today

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Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 20ppm
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) Not sure what does tap mean?
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap)
  • * Nitrate level(Tap)
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.5
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API freshwater master test kit
    • * Water temperature? 76
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20 gallons , 6months
    • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? AquaTech 20-40 gallons
    • * How often do you change the water and how much? 90% every week
    • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday and 90%
      • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3, medium oranda (5 inches) and 1 small oranda and 1 pearlscale (both 2 inches)
      • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, Stress Coat
      • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari pellet food, 2 times/day and starting feed Repashy gel twice a week starting last week.
      • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
      • * Any medications added to the tank? salt
      • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. just using Prime for water change. When I saw my pearlscale have ick, I treat in different tank(smaller like 15 gallons)
      • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? the tail tear yesterday and today look like he lost weight and tail become shorter than yesterday.
      • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? not swimming much

Yesterday I saw my medium oranda have tail tearing so I immediately test water and it turn out the nitrate is high like >80ppm, even though I just change water a week ago. So I immediately change water again and nitrate go down to 10ppm. I also use salt to treat the new water and prime for conditioner. the other 2 goldfish look fine without any tearing.

This morning the bigger one died and I have no idea why and what should I do to the tank now?

I just a new fishkeeping so I don't have much experience. Any advice will be much appreciated. Thank you

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Thank you Heidi030.

It is so unexpected that only one day and my fish is dead. That is really serious to me and I'm trying to check on the other two now

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Hang in there. Someone will be along to help you.

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I'm sorry for your loss. :hug

Tap means tap water. Like water out of the sink or whatever you use to fill your tank please get that tested for us.

For goldfish, it is recommended 15-20 gallons per fish.

Since you have 1 small Oranda and one small Pearlscale, you should be okay until you can upgrade to I would say no smaller than a 30 gallon but preferably a 40 breeder. Just make sure you keep an eye on your nitrates and upgrade when possible. You can find great deals on Craigslist. Petco has a dollar per gallon sale a couple times a year. I'm not sure when the next time that is ping to happen, but you can get up to a 55 gallon tank for only 55 dollars :)

The reason the nitrates were so high after a week was because there were three goldfish in the 20 and the one was decently sized.

Can we have some pictures of the other fish please? And how much salt was added? Also, what kind of salt?

Edited by Mikey

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I'm so sorry for your loss. I see you have a 20g tank for all of your fish. It's advised to have at least 20g for the first fish and an additional 15 gallons for each fish after that. It's also best to have 10 times the filtration on the back of your tank. That's great that you are doing huge weekly water changes. You might want to do your water changes twice a week. Is there anyway for you to upgrade your tank and filters?

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I agree. With nitrates reaching 80 ppm every week, it's a good idea to change your water at least twice a week. We don't want nitrate reaching levels high enough to harm/irritate your fish. I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope you find out the issue :)

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  • here is the test on tap water:
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 10ppm
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6

I'm trying to figure out how to post picture on here. And I use the API aquarium salt with 4 rounded tablespoon since I have 20gallons.

I bought the 20 gallons when the petco on sale for 1$/1gallon. the reason I bought small one because I already have the 40gallons with 3 comet goldfish inside and no more space but I really want the fancy one because they look so cute.

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You can use an Image hosting site such as Tinypic or photobucket :)

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okay, I figure out the Flickr not work for this website. Sorry it takes time for me to find the post how to post pictures :no:

Here the pictures

SAM_2202_zpsc5ddc034.jpg

SAM_2206_zps2a883376.jpg

and the two other:

SAM_2211_zpsb618f77a.jpg

SAM_2216_zpseb3529c1.jpg

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Welcome to the forum :hi I'm sorry for your loss :hug a moderator will be along soon to help you out :)

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I'm sorry your fish aren't doing well. It's very frustrating when things go wrong, and I'm sad to hear you lost one. :hug

How long have you had each of them? Did you buy them all together recently? What percentage of salt are you using - is it 0.3%? The reason I ask is because it's unusual to see ich appear in a fish you've had longer than a few weeks. If one fish had ich in the tank, then the entire tank is probably contaminated. But if you'd had this fish for six months and it suddenly developed white spots (without any new fish being added), then I would wonder if what you saw was ich. Ich normally becomes visible within the first 2 weeks, which is one reason why salt is recommended as part of the standard quarantine procedure - it's very common for pet store fish to develop ich, but it's easily treated in most cases with salt. If the fish still has white spots, do you by any chance have a photo?

Good for you for carrying out large water changes weekly. Clean water can only do good. :) If your nitrates are above 20-40 ppm, you may want to consider changing 50-90% twice weekly until they get under control.

Edited by *Amanda*

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Does your Oranda have any scales that look like they are popping out like a pinecone?

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I'm sorry your fish aren't doing well. It's very frustrating when things go wrong, and I'm sad to hear you lost one. :hug

How long have you had each of them? Did you buy them all together recently? What percentage of salt are you using - is it 0.3%? The reason I ask is because it's unusual to see ich appear in a fish you've had longer than a few weeks. If one fish had ich in the tank, then the entire tank is probably contaminated. But if you'd had this fish for six months and it suddenly developed white spots (without any new fish being added), then I would wonder if what you saw was ich. Ich normally becomes visible within the first 2 weeks, which is one reason why salt is recommended as part of the standard quarantine procedure - it's very common for pet store fish to develop ich, but it's easily treated in most cases with salt. If the fish still has white spots, do you by any chance have a photo?

Good for you for carrying out large water changes weekly. Clean water can only do good. :) If your nitrates are above 20-40 ppm, you may want to consider changing 50-90% twice weekly until they get under control.

Hi Amanda,

My memory is kinda bad so I cannot tell exactly though. But for small oranda I have like a year when it's only one inch and I bought the pearlscale 6 months ago with the 20gallons tank in petco. So they live together like 2 months and I bought the medium one. When I add the medium one, everything is fine until last 3 weeks ago I saw the pearlscale have ick because all the tail have white small dot like salt. So I just took the pearlscale out and use Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. It worked really well and all white spot disappear in a week and i put it back the tank. Change water. And yesterday I saw the medium with the tail like that :bye2:

Oops, I didn't take any picture when it has ick. Sorry. My bad.

Edited by snowdrop89

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Does your Oranda have any scales that look like they are popping out like a pinecone?

Nope, it totally looks normal, only the tail tearing and today tail looks shorter

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Does your Oranda have any scales that look like they are popping out like a pinecone?

Nope, it totally looks normal, only the tail tearing and today tail looks shorter
I am confused here. I thought the big Oranda passed away? So you had 4 fish in the tank and now 3? Just clearing this up.

I was talking about the red cap Oranda. Maybe it's just the way the picture was angled.

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Does your Oranda have any scales that look like they are popping out like a pinecone?

Nope, it totally looks normal, only the tail tearing and today tail looks shorter
I am confused here. I thought the big Oranda passed away? So you had 4 fish in the tank and now 3? Just clearing this up.

I was talking about the red cap Oranda. Maybe it's just the way the picture was angled.

sorry, maybe my English is so bad lol.

I only have 3, the big one dead and 2 small ones.

I thought your question is about the big one with tearing tail and nothing like pinecone.

the small oranda totally fine and the pearlscale have ick like 3 weeks ago but not anymore now.

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I'm sorry your fish aren't doing well. It's very frustrating when things go wrong, and I'm sad to hear you lost one. :hug

How long have you had each of them? Did you buy them all together recently? What percentage of salt are you using - is it 0.3%? The reason I ask is because it's unusual to see ich appear in a fish you've had longer than a few weeks. If one fish had ich in the tank, then the entire tank is probably contaminated. But if you'd had this fish for six months and it suddenly developed white spots (without any new fish being added), then I would wonder if what you saw was ich. Ich normally becomes visible within the first 2 weeks, which is one reason why salt is recommended as part of the standard quarantine procedure - it's very common for pet store fish to develop ich, but it's easily treated in most cases with salt. If the fish still has white spots, do you by any chance have a photo?

Good for you for carrying out large water changes weekly. Clean water can only do good. :) If your nitrates are above 20-40 ppm, you may want to consider changing 50-90% twice weekly until they get under control.

Hi Amanda,

My memory is kinda bad so I cannot tell exactly though. But for small oranda I have like a year when it's only one inch and I bought the pearlscale 6 months ago with the 20gallons tank in petco. So they live together like 2 months and I bought the medium one. When I add the medium one, everything is fine until last 3 weeks ago I saw the pearlscale have ick because all the tail have white small dot like salt. So I just took the pearlscale out and use Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. It worked really well and all white spot disappear in a week and i put it back the tank. Change water. And yesterday I saw the medium with the tail like that :bye2:

Oops, I didn't take any picture when it has ick. Sorry. My bad.

Thanks for clearing that up. I used the Kordon Rid-Ich Plus (formaldehyde/malachite green combo) for a long time and am familiar with the medication. Unfortunately, although it is very effective against ich, it is also very harsh on the fish, which is why 0.3% salt is recommended here - it's also a very effective ich treatment, and it's very safe for the fish.

In the future, I would recommend quarantining all new fish in a separate 10-gallon tank for 1 month before adding them to the main tank. This way, you can monitor them separately and not have to worry about the fish in your main tank catching anything from them. Here is a good description of the standard quarantine procedure: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/114492-how-to-quarantine-new-fish/

Edited by *Amanda*

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I'm sorry your fish aren't doing well. It's very frustrating when things go wrong, and I'm sad to hear you lost one. :hug

How long have you had each of them? Did you buy them all together recently? What percentage of salt are you using - is it 0.3%? The reason I ask is because it's unusual to see ich appear in a fish you've had longer than a few weeks. If one fish had ich in the tank, then the entire tank is probably contaminated. But if you'd had this fish for six months and it suddenly developed white spots (without any new fish being added), then I would wonder if what you saw was ich. Ich normally becomes visible within the first 2 weeks, which is one reason why salt is recommended as part of the standard quarantine procedure - it's very common for pet store fish to develop ich, but it's easily treated in most cases with salt. If the fish still has white spots, do you by any chance have a photo?

Good for you for carrying out large water changes weekly. Clean water can only do good. :) If your nitrates are above 20-40 ppm, you may want to consider changing 50-90% twice weekly until they get under control.

Hi Amanda,

My memory is kinda bad so I cannot tell exactly though. But for small oranda I have like a year when it's only one inch and I bought the pearlscale 6 months ago with the 20gallons tank in petco. So they live together like 2 months and I bought the medium one. When I add the medium one, everything is fine until last 3 weeks ago I saw the pearlscale have ick because all the tail have white small dot like salt. So I just took the pearlscale out and use Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. It worked really well and all white spot disappear in a week and i put it back the tank. Change water. And yesterday I saw the medium with the tail like that :bye2:

Oops, I didn't take any picture when it has ick. Sorry. My bad.

Thanks for clearing that up. I used the Kordon Rid-Ich Plus (formaldehyde/malachite green combo) for a long time and am familiar with the medication. Unfortunately, although it is very effective against ich, it is also very harsh on the fish, which is why 0.3% salt is recommended here - it's also a very effective ich treatment, and it's very safe for the fish.

In the future, I would recommend quarantining all new fish in a separate 10-gallon tank for 1 month before adding them to the main tank. This way, you can monitor them separately and not have to worry about the fish in your main tank catching anything from them. Here is a good description of the standard quarantine procedure: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/114492-how-to-quarantine-new-fish/

Thanks for your help. I am used to separate the new fish before adding to new tank. So I did same thing for the two small. The big one I'm afraid 15gallons not enough so I just put in the same tank with other. And I thought I bought from good pet store so I'm not worried much. I did observe the big one carefully and see nothing wrong until yesterday. Its my fault to quickly put into the same tank :(

The only thing I wonder now is what should I do to the tank. Should I change water again or just observe it?

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I'm sorry your fish aren't doing well. It's very frustrating when things go wrong, and I'm sad to hear you lost one. :hug

How long have you had each of them? Did you buy them all together recently? What percentage of salt are you using - is it 0.3%? The reason I ask is because it's unusual to see ich appear in a fish you've had longer than a few weeks. If one fish had ich in the tank, then the entire tank is probably contaminated. But if you'd had this fish for six months and it suddenly developed white spots (without any new fish being added), then I would wonder if what you saw was ich. Ich normally becomes visible within the first 2 weeks, which is one reason why salt is recommended as part of the standard quarantine procedure - it's very common for pet store fish to develop ich, but it's easily treated in most cases with salt. If the fish still has white spots, do you by any chance have a photo?

Good for you for carrying out large water changes weekly. Clean water can only do good. :) If your nitrates are above 20-40 ppm, you may want to consider changing 50-90% twice weekly until they get under control.

Hi Amanda,

My memory is kinda bad so I cannot tell exactly though. But for small oranda I have like a year when it's only one inch and I bought the pearlscale 6 months ago with the 20gallons tank in petco. So they live together like 2 months and I bought the medium one. When I add the medium one, everything is fine until last 3 weeks ago I saw the pearlscale have ick because all the tail have white small dot like salt. So I just took the pearlscale out and use Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. It worked really well and all white spot disappear in a week and i put it back the tank. Change water. And yesterday I saw the medium with the tail like that :bye2:

Oops, I didn't take any picture when it has ick. Sorry. My bad.

Thanks for clearing that up. I used the Kordon Rid-Ich Plus (formaldehyde/malachite green combo) for a long time and am familiar with the medication. Unfortunately, although it is very effective against ich, it is also very harsh on the fish, which is why 0.3% salt is recommended here - it's also a very effective ich treatment, and it's very safe for the fish.

In the future, I would recommend quarantining all new fish in a separate 10-gallon tank for 1 month before adding them to the main tank. This way, you can monitor them separately and not have to worry about the fish in your main tank catching anything from them. Here is a good description of the standard quarantine procedure: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/114492-how-to-quarantine-new-fish/

Thanks for your help. I am used to separate the new fish before adding to new tank. So I did same thing for the two small. The big one I'm afraid 15gallons not enough so I just put in the same tank with other. And I thought I bought from good pet store so I'm not worried much. I did observe the big one carefully and see nothing wrong until yesterday. Its my fault to quickly put into the same tank :(

The only thing I wonder now is what should I do to the tank. Should I change water again or just observe it?

That's good that you normally do this. I remember one time I bought new fish from a good pet store, and put them in after 2 weeks because of space concerns. Then my whole tank got ich, and I had to spend more money on meds to treat the 55 gal! It was very stressful. Even with good pet stores, the fish are still highly stressed from shipping and are more prone to outbreaks. After that disaster, I never QT for less than a month.

I would keep a close eye on your fish, and clean water definitely cannot hurt. Good luck!

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Please, everyone, relax about the size of the tank. Two small fish in a 20 gallon tank is not a problem, particularly with 90% weekly water changes.

Snowdrop, welcome to Koko's! I think you realize that you made a mistake when you didn't quarantine the oranda. Your other two fish have now been exposed to the bugs infecting the oranda. For that reason, I want you to go through the quarantine procedure we use here with your surviving fish.

If I understand correctly, you also have a 15 gallon tank? If so, you can use that as a hospital/quarantine tank for your current fish. Please get some Prazipro if you don't already have some. Most fish specialty stores carry it.

Please disinfect the hospital tank with beach, diluted 1 part bleach to 19 parts water before using it. The hospital tank should have no gravel or ornaments. You can transfer your filter to the hospital tank. Rinse it well before you do so.

It's easiest to measure salt and medicines in a ten gallon tank, so you might just measure 10 gallons of water into the hospital tank, then mark how full it is and use it with 10 gallons of water throughout the quarantine procedure.

Once you have the tank set up, you can start the quarantine procedure. Since your fish have been exposed to a fish that died, you should follow the full month of salt and Prazi treatments.

Once you have moved the fish from the 20 gallon, clean the 20 gallon tank, disinfect it with bleach and leave it dry until your fish are through quarantine. (Is this a 20 long? I had to go to 5 Petcos during the $ a gallon sale to get one of those.)

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Please, everyone, relax about the size of the tank. Two small fish in a 20 gallon tank is not a problem, particularly with 90% weekly water changes.

Snowdrop, welcome to Koko's! I think you realize that you made a mistake when you didn't quarantine the oranda. Your other two fish have now been exposed to the bugs infecting the oranda. For that reason, I want you to go through the quarantine procedure we use here with your surviving fish.

If I understand correctly, you also have a 15 gallon tank? If so, you can use that as a hospital/quarantine tank for your current fish. Please get some Prazipro if you don't already have some. Most fish specialty stores carry it.

Please disinfect the hospital tank with beach, diluted 1 part bleach to 19 parts water before using it. The hospital tank should have no gravel or ornaments. You can transfer your filter to the hospital tank. Rinse it well before you do so.

It's easiest to measure salt and medicines in a ten gallon tank, so you might just measure 10 gallons of water into the hospital tank, then mark how full it is and use it with 10 gallons of water throughout the quarantine procedure.

Once you have the tank set up, you can start the quarantine procedure. Since your fish have been exposed to a fish that died, you should follow the full month of salt and Prazi treatments.

Once you have moved the fish from the 20 gallon, clean the 20 gallon tank, disinfect it with bleach and leave it dry until your fish are through quarantine. (Is this a 20 long? I had to go to 5 Petcos during the $ a gallon sale to get one of those.)

Thank you so much for your help Shakaho

That's all I need to know what should I do to the tank and the rest of my fish now. I really appreciate that. I do have 15 gallons and The only thing I am not sure is that you suggest I just need to have 10 gallons?

The 20 gallon tank has width 24in, height 17in and dept 12in.

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I always use a ten gallon Tank for a hospital. One reason is that a lot of medicine doses are given per ten gallons of water. For example you use 1 teaspoon of Prazipro per 20 gallons of water. Using 1/2 teaspoon for 10 gallons is more convenient than measuring 3/4 teaspoon for 15 gallons. The simpler and more convenient something is, the less likely you are to make a mistake. So I would use 10 gallons of water in a hospital tank, but you can use 15 gallons if you prefer.

No that's not a 20 long, but it's a good tank too.

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