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Strange lumps on fantail.


MadMooCow

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Test Results:

- Ammonia (Tank): 0

- Nitrite (Tank): 0

- Nitrate (Tank): 10

- pH (Tank): 6.6

- Ammonia (Tap): 0

- Nitrite (Tap): 0

- Nitrate (Tap): 0

- pH (Tap): 6.8-7.0

I have no idea what's going on with the pH difference. I hope its not a problem for the fish! They don't seem bothered.

Other Info:

- Test kit: API drops.

- Water temp: Not sure.. 18°C-ish? Room temperature anyway.

- Tank size: 200L, its been going for about 18months now.

- Filters: 1, 000Lph filter that came with the tank, and Aqua Nova 1, 200Lph canister.

- Water changes: 50% once a week, 75% on occasion.

- Last water change: Thursday (31st July), 50%

- How many fish: 3. Two are 5-6cm, and the fantail which is 7-ishcm

- Water additives: API Tap water conditioner and blue crystals for water hardness

- Fish food: Formerly Hikari Lionhead, now a homemade gel food with pumpkin, peas, kale, Lionhead pellets, garlic and gelatine. Bloodworms every few days. I aim to feed them the gel food at least a couple of times a day.

- New fish: None

- Meds added: Nothing yet. I wanted advice before I started anything.

- Medical history: Treated everyone for flukes with salt dips back in April. Treatment Thread Here I gave them a final / booster round about a month after (in May). Before that all the fish went though quarantine with fluke treatment and salt and showed no issues.

- Description of fish and problem:

The fantail, last I fed them (last night) is still a voracious eater, and swims around as it always has, sans the air gulping.

Unfortunately I can't really do much better than "strange swellings". It started out looking as though there were clear air bubbles under the skin of the fish which were creating these lumps, one on each side behind the gills, causing the scales to lift. They've turned a rather nasty looking yellow-red colour (like old bruising) in the past 24 hours. I first noticed these bubbles a few days ago and wasn't really sure what I was looking at. This fish has undergone (and still is) a colour change, and with the random metallic scales, I wasn't sure if it was a thing or not. Anyway, it clearly is now.

This fish was a serious air-drinker for as long as I've had it. I've recently changed its food to a veggie-based gel food and the time the fish spends at the surface has been reduced by well over 90%. So behaviour wise, this fish really has never been better.

Unfortunately, these "bubbles" have turned up within two weeks of the new diet. However, I wouldn't think that anything in the new food would have caused a reaction (peas, pumpkin, kale, some mushed up Hikari Lionhead and gelatine) as I've given all (except the kale) to the fish before with no issues and the other two fish appear to be perfectly fine.

I've got some photos here, hopefully they are good enough that you can see what's going on. If not, I might have to physically grab the fish and see if I can get some better ones. These are actually the best photos I've ever got of my fish. Haha.

If you need better photos than these, I'll need to get handsy with it.

I'm linking to the photos because they are rather large and I didn't want to shrink them, in case they lose too much detail.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2h2k08w.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/90zk10.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/30cbzpe.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/zofb0p.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/1249gkw.jpg

Medication on hand:

Salt

Prazi

Tri-sulfa

Melafix

Thanks for reading and for any advice. :)

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from this picture: it looks like bacteria cysts affecting both sides.:

zofb0p.jpg

from this pciture: there may be some pineconing going on or that we have several cysts creating the swell i see.

1249gkw.jpg

can you please post a picture from top view? i will be here for a few more hours. is it the only fish in the tank? i will read the rest of your post in a minute.. meanwhile, i look forward to topview photos and if you can, a short video of your fish getting around, displaying both left and right sides.

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Hi Helen,

Waaaaiting for things to upload.

There's definitely some pineconing around the trouble areas (even if you can't see it in the photos, I can see it in person well enough) and there are two other fish in the tank with it, though they seem perfectly fine.

I'm going to apologise in advance for the terrible photography skills, I hope you can see what's going on. The lighting in the video is crazy, unfortunately, but that's probably the best its going to get until the sun's up again, plus, phone camera.

If it is bacterial cysts, how treatable is it?

Edit: I should say, thank you, Mernany, for the well wishes. :)

Edited by MadMooCow
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bacteria cysts are not treatable with anything but time :) that doesn't mean they won't go away. the only thing we can treat is the wound they cause. as you can see, the one i pictured above has some traces of blood in it. that will most likely pop, leaving behind a cavity until healed. we can dab that with some betadine to sterilize the site and nothing more. that's how we treat cysts.

what i am trying to determine is if the cysts are causing the scales to lift or if the fish is actually pineconing from the amount of bacteria in it's body. in the meantime, please don't feel bad about any of this. absolutely nothing you have done would have caused such cysts.. some fish coast through life for many years before they are affected, others experience them really early and some not at all :) these are out of your control :)

have you room for a QT set up? min 8 gallons with air pump, heater and a cycled filter?

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Sounds like a relatively stress free treatment then (for me, anyway). I was desperately worried that it was the dreaded "D" illness (if you know what I mean), when I saw those scales. Anyway, the scales only look raised where the cysts are, the rest of the body looks normal, if that helps any. Hopefully you'll be able to see it in the (terrible) photos, when they upload.. if they upload.

Thank you for the reassurance. I was desperately trying to figure out what had changed that might have caused something to go wrong. I start second guessing myself, like did I put enough water treatment in during the last WC... I always put the same in but what I'd done something different... but the other two fish are fine so what's up... is there something crazy with the filter, or in the water... you know, the usual panic that goes along with sick pets.

As for QT... I've got a two plastic buckets (one is 40L the other I usually fill to 50L) that I can and do use as QT when needed. I do have a 30L tank that I'm running a plant experiment in, but I'm reluctant to use it for fish at the moment because I'm not sure what the substrate is doing (especially for an unwell fish). I don't have any filters or heaters though. In the past I've moved the fish from bucket to bucket as the water needed changing, but that'll mean the fish will have to be in some pretty cool water if I go that way... although, if I fill up one now, and let the water temp stabilise overnight / the next 24 hours THEN put the fish in, and have the other bucket filled to allow the water temp to stabilise while the fish is in the first one and cycle though like that it might not be so traumatic. Poor fish, she did so hate the QT when she went through it the first time.

I grossly underestimated how long it took for videos to upload. :|

Oh! Hang on!

http://tinypic.com/m/idenhx/2 - Video, I had a longer one, but it might take seven years to upload.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2z5vq4w.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/s682sk.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/2vlofvd.jpg

Again, I apologise for the poor quality.

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ok.. good and bad news, but nothing that can't be treated. she is actually pineconing as a result. so, we are going to need Metronidazole and Epsom. do you have the Metronidazole? i can't remember if you were one that i supplied a while back.

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Heidi030, Thank you. :)

Ok, I was told by Helen via email to get the fantail's weight. She weighs 25 grams. :)

I'm setting up a QT tub for her now. I won't put her in until tomorrow, with no aquarium heaters the water coming from the tap will be pretty cold, so I'll let the water sit so that the temperature can come up to room temperature. I don't want to shock her too badly. I intend to get a couple of heaters on Thursday.

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ok, that's awesome that you have her weight. i will make the food tomorrow for you and put it in the freezer, we can discuss on Friday how much you will need to be feeding her, daily.. how's the pineconing doing? any better or worse? i have a spare heater here that you can borrow if you are unable to get one by the time you visit to collect the food.

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Helen,

Pineconing looks like it may have spread around the areas more. The areas where the cysts are have some red now too. The fish continues to behave as normal (including trying to eat my finger hehe). I'll have her in the QT tub tomorrow afternoon, until then she's still hanging with the other two.

Thanks for the heater offer. Hopefully I can get a few of my own. I've been meaning to for a while now anyway, fingers crossed I can get the ones I want from the local stores.

Assuming all goes according to plan and she recovers, is this likely to be a thing that will come back in time?

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any chance you can get here tomorrow, hun? if her pineconing has increased significantly from last night to tonight then we may have to act fast and treat. the alternative is that i find you in Fairfield and drop the meds off and you can make the food tomorrow night? i travel to Reservoir daily, so it's not too far out of my way. you have my email, let me know what you decide. i can give you my spare heater so that you can begin treating the moment you return to her.

the symptom of pineconing is a strange one. in most fish, yes, it can come back.. in few cases, it never returned. but this all depends what the influences are. my fish rocky suffered multiple cysts as your fish has. although Rocky had scales which were lifted, they were only lifted over the area where the cysts were and nowhere else. she was quite sick, but never actually considered pineconed. the pineconing on your fish is quite even on both sides. so we either have two separate issues going on here, or that some of her cysts are trying to be reabsorbed by her body (which is not uncommon) but they are doing a lousy job of it. i am not really sure why she is pineconing, i am just throwing possible causes out into discussion. in either scenario, we are dealing with bacteria and one of it's symptoms is pineconing.

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I think I can get there tomorrow. It will definitely be after 4:00PM though, almost certainly after 5:00 (I have no idea what the traffic will be like). I can't say for certain though, I have an exam in the afternoon, is the thing, so I'm not even sure what time I'll be able to leave uni. If that's ok with you, of course?

I'll see if I can nip up early tomorrow and grab a heater from the local shop, but I might need to borrow yours if they don't have one in.

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I think I can get there tomorrow. It will definitely be after 4:00PM though, almost certainly after 5:00 (I have no idea what the traffic will be like). I can't say for certain though, I have an exam in the afternoon, is the thing, so I'm not even sure what time I'll be able to leave uni. If that's ok with you, of course?

I'll see if I can nip up early tomorrow and grab a heater from the local shop, but I might need to borrow yours if they don't have one in.

that's fine even after 5.. and if you smell human food when you walk through the door, consider yourself a dinner guest, lol.. :rofl

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I think I can get there tomorrow. It will definitely be after 4:00PM though, almost certainly after 5:00 (I have no idea what the traffic will be like). I can't say for certain though, I have an exam in the afternoon, is the thing, so I'm not even sure what time I'll be able to leave uni. If that's ok with you, of course?

I'll see if I can nip up early tomorrow and grab a heater from the local shop, but I might need to borrow yours if they don't have one in.

that's fine even after 5.. and if you smell human food when you walk through the door, consider yourself a dinner guest, lol.. :rofl

Helen, you are so sweet. :heart

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I think I can get there tomorrow. It will definitely be after 4:00PM though, almost certainly after 5:00 (I have no idea what the traffic will be like). I can't say for certain though, I have an exam in the afternoon, is the thing, so I'm not even sure what time I'll be able to leave uni. If that's ok with you, of course?

I'll see if I can nip up early tomorrow and grab a heater from the local shop, but I might need to borrow yours if they don't have one in.

that's fine even after 5.. and if you smell human food when you walk through the door, consider yourself a dinner guest, lol.. :rofl

Helen, you are so sweet. :heart

:blush:

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Thanks Helen, you're awesome! I'll text you when we are on our way this afternoon. :)

I did manage to get a heater and a better air pump this morning. Ok, I've got to head off now, Helen, I'll see you this arvo. :)

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awesome, i had a pretty disgraceful attempt at sleeping last night... so there is a VERY slow start to the day.. if you can aim for after 5pm, that would suit me perfectly.. see you then.

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