No idea what is wrong with my fish, please help

[shekhina 17]

OK great thanks for that... we now have a shopping list and can get there before it shuts

I don't have blood worms though and they don't sell those at the supermarket LOL

[shekhina 17]

How much of everything to add and how am I cooking it, please? I'll get onto it as soon as we get home.

[shekhina 17]

Phoebe weighs 18g

That seems so small!

[Helen 8,511]

ok, sorry for the delay.

18 grams cute lil fishie

so, what ingredients have you managed to get re food?

peas are boiled till squishy soft. if you have a blender, don't worry about taking their shells off, if you don't, then you will need to take the shell off each pea after boiling.

zucchini, i remove the peel and seeds, i use only the white flesh and then boil it

carrots, peeled and boiled

spinach, boiled until you can almost dissolve a leaf by gentle rubbing between thumb and finger

have i missed anything? you get the idea.

[shekhina 17]

I've put some flakes in with her until I can do the gel food... and she wants to eat but she doesn't seem to have a lot of energy. When she did eat she was then frantically moving her mouth and spat it out like something was irritating her and sank to the bottom of the tank again

[shekhina 17]

OK thanks for that. How much gelatin am I using to make the food? Also how much medication to put in it and am I still dosing the tank as well? We're about to do the water change.

[Helen 8,511]

if we manage to feed her the meds, then we will not need to treat the water. gelatin will be as per instructions on the packet. we will make X amount of food, and then take a portion of that to medicate. so go ahead and make the amount of gel food you want to make for regular feeds and i will work out how much of that we need to separate for medicating, and the dose of Metronidazole.. but for now, since we want to syringe feed it (i feel it's best), do not add the gelatin to the portion that you will separate for medicating since it needs to pass through the syringe. ok? i hope that makes sense.

[Helen 8,511]

ok, so when you make the food and before adding the gel, separate 50 grams of wet food. finely crush 2.5 tablets of Metronidazole (as fine as you can make it) and blend it in with the food. we need to feed in total 0.20 grams of food daily (split over 2-3 meals a day). i have just put some gelfood on a scale for you, ontop of a 5c piece, so you can see what volume this is.

^ this is the entire daily feed.

[shekhina 17]

Is the 2.5 tablets referring to 2.5 400mg tablets? Or 2.5 200mg tablets? And the amount I separate for adding the medication to, do I then mix that with water to syringe feed it to her?

[Helen 8,511]

ok, i missed your post where you mentioned that your tabs are 400mg. sorry. so that would be 1 1/4 tablets of 400mg in 50 grams of wet food.

once you have parted the food to 50 grams, add the metronidazole to it, stir it in well. daily you will feed the 0.20 grams of medicated food. you can put the 0.20grams in the syringe and see how many ml it is, decide from there how many ml you will feed each time over the course of the day. when you've finished each feed, just wipe the syringe down and pop it in the fridge. once you have fed all the food from the syringe and it is empty, give it a wash and rinse well. reload it for the next day. this is exactly what i would do. if you have an easier method, go right ahead

if you see that she is spitting out too much food, crush a half tablet (200mg) and add it to the water as a normal routine in addition to the feeds you are attempting (as a back up) ok?

[shekhina 17]

OK, thanks very much! I've made the food up so will feed her and do the water change before going to bed. Hopefully she eats and regains her strength again, poor Phoebe

[shekhina 17]

She's just spitting it all out.;. or if not all of it, pretty much all of it. She looks so sad.

[Helen 8,511]

i'm sorry, hun. we really are doing all that we can for her. and you are doing a wonderful job at that. i can only recommend that you keep trying. if she is actually refusing food, that's not a good sign. usually from refusal of food to passing on, it can be 4-6 hours (this is quoting from my experiences, can take longer). but, if she's actually trying, there's still hope. give her another shot at eating for tonight and then just let her be until the morning. if she's still with us, try again. hugs to you. you really have gone above and beyond to help Phoebe.. hopefully she will take to the feeds and make some improvement.

[shekhina 17]

Thanks, I will try again and hope she eats. She did come up to the top and eat flakes while she was in the bucket during the water change. Hopefully she will eat the good stuff tomorrow though

[Helen 8,511]

would you like to update me with a video tomorrow so that i can see her behaviour as well as that blood patch and mouth movements?

[shekhina 17]

Sure, I will take another video for you tomorrow when we do her water change

[Helen 8,511]

hun, can you check with the fish shop, do they sell Blue Planet Tri-Sulfa? it's worth a try.

[shekhina 17]

I thought I still had some Tri Sulfa here but apparently not. They do have it and I could get some tomorrow. Is it safe to use with metronidazole, prazi and salt?

I'm just uploading a couple of videos now.

[shekhina 17]

OK, so here is a video of her behaviour today... she was resting on the bottom when we uncovered her (she has a blanket over the tank) but got up:

http://vid34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/shekhina/IMG_4256_zpsd1c1aad5.mp4

And this one shows her blood spot:

http://vid34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/shekhina/IMG_4258_zpsbf3ca619.mp4

Hopefully you can see the mouth movement too.

[Helen 8,511]

yes, it's very safe to use with the Metronidazole and salt. i will check the vids in a minute.

[Helen 8,511]

ok, she doesn't look too bad, considering.. any chance that she's eaten anything recently?

[shekhina 17]

Well I don't know how much of the stuff I syringe fed her last night and today made it into her tummy... there's no poo I can see. I think she's finding the syringe feeding really stressful to be honest... she resists opening her mouth, spits it all out and then sinks to the bottom of the tank... where as if she's left alone to feed herself she will swim about and try to eat. Is it possible to make the medicated food into a gel? She seemed interested in the bits that were floating around the tank after she spat it out so perhaps she will eat it herself if I can make it into a substance that doesn't dissolve in the water.

[Helen 8,511]

of course you can, hun.. just add some gelatin to it

[shekhina 17]

OK, well I've done that and I'm cooking up another batch (as I only made a small amount last night). Not sure how long the gelatin takes to set it but hopefully I'll be able to feed her some tonight before bed and hopefully she eats it! I added some garlic to it as well to make it nice and smelly

[Helen 8,511]

good and if you find that it is not solid enough, Metronidazole will keep well if you want to gently simmer the gelfood down to add more gelatin. please do get the Tri-Sulfa. i would like to add that to the routine. Alex suggested it today in conversation and i agreed that it would be a good additional treatment for Phoebe