No idea what is wrong with my fish, please help

[shekhina 17]

Look who is up and about!

http://s34.photobucket.com/user/shekhina/media/IMG_4229_zps7575d575.mp4.html

Massive improvement in the last few hours.

Today she's had a 100% water change and I put the salt and Prime back in. I fed her while we were changing her water and I think most of it actually made it's way to her tummy...she had peas and garlic. She appears to cope with the handling quite well and stays very calm, but both times has been very quiet immediately afterwards... like she's actually really stressed and weakened by the whole thing. So instead of putting the medications in straight away I left her be for a couple of hours with her blanket over the tank thinking I'd let her settle before adding anything else in to the water. Went back in 2 hours later and she's swimming over to me probably hoping I'm about to feed her more garlic LOL

I've just added in the metronidazole and thought I'd give her another hour or so before I also add the Prazi medication in to the tank as I'm a bit worried about throwing so much stuff at her in such a short time... I'm sure it's probably fine but I'm a bit paranoid.

I have a question about the Prazi stuff... on the bottle it says to change 25% of the water after 48 hours... now obviously I'm doing a 100% change every day due to having no filter and such a tiny tank... so do I need to add in the full amount of Prazi again each day to give it the right amount of time to work?

Also, I have just seen the expiry date on the bottle of Prazi is March 2014... sigh. My poor husband drove all the way in to the shop to get it today while I studied and now this! I assume it's not safe to use now? Pretty disappointed that the shop hasn't checked their stock (husband didn't even think to look for an expiry date). I haven't opened the bottle so if it's not safe I'll leave it out of the tank tonight and pick some more up tomorrow.

Edited July 20, 2014 by shekhina

[Helen 8,511]

awesome news!! i hope she's finding the strength she needs via the feeding, so that the meds can do their thing

what prazi did you buy? the tablets or liquid? (although i am not sure the liquid can be brought in AU).

[shekhina 17]

We've got the tablets.

She's quiet again tonight, hopefully just trying to recover, How much can I feed her each day to regain her strength? I don't want to overfeed her and make her worse.

[Helen 8,511]

awww. i would just keep it light meals for now. she will definitely not be ingesting the entire offering you feed her. so if you can try for 3 or 4 times a day, that would be awesome.

re the tablets, since it's 100% praziquantel, it should be fine. i do not believe that they expire as quickly as the package says.. in fact, mine says March 2014 also and i used it 3 weeks ago.. it saved my Rocky!

in actual fact, i believe MAR 2014 is the packaging date and not the expiry.. since on my bottle, the expiry date is empty.

[shekhina 17]

OK great, I will use the Prazi as well when I change the water today then

[motherredcap 6,284]

Great work, you two!

[shekhina 17]

This is Phoebe today waiting in the bucket for her water change to be complete... please excuse my 4 year old son hacking up a lung in the background, poor little mite is very unwell.

http://vid34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/shekhina/IMG_4231_zps398693bb.mp4

She's still up and swimming about tonight and even fed herself this evening (I put a few flakes in the bucket with her to see if she had her appetite back). Prazi went in today.

As I'm doing 100% water changes every day should I put in a tablet of Prazi each time I change the water? How long should I be treating her with the Prazi and Metronidazole?

[Helen 8,511]

she's looking quite good good work

well, Prazi usually stays active for 4 days. so for 4 consecutive days, if you are doing a 100% wc daily, yes, you will need to add prazi each days for the first 4 days. then nothing for the next 3 days.

we usually uphold this routine for 4 - 6 weeks when we're treating our fish for parasites. fluke eggs are not affected by prazi, so, the first 4 days of treatment is to kill hatched and adult flukes. we do not treat the last 3 days (in a 7 day week) to give the eggs time to hatch. then, we do a second round as explained above to kill the newly hatched flukes..

the process in breaking the cycle and ridding or lowering fluke numbers to a safe amount takes minimum 4 weeks.

[Helen 8,511]

the metronidazole will need to be for a minimum 14 day treatment. since you are treating the primary cause being the parasites, you will find an improvement in her health overall because the metronidazole is treating the secondary infection at the same time.

[shekhina 17]

OK that makes sense, thanks very much! I will have to get a bigger bottle of Prazi to be able to do all of that in the main tank also, but that's no worries. I may need some more metronidazole treating for so long but I doubt the vet will mind giving me some more

Should I continue feeding her with the peas and garlic, or if she's happy to eat on her own should I let her eat the flakes again?

[Helen 8,511]

ok

hun, why don't you reduce the water volume to 10 gallons? (40 litres).. you can save some money on meds if you're treating less water. this is ideal since you are doing daily water changes.

here's another thing, if your filter is cycled, after the first week, you don't need to be doing daily water changes. we're just doing them now to provide her with pristine water which makes a huge difference to a sick fish. after she's gained her strength back and if you have her in a cycled tank, you can relax the water changes to twice weekly.

for a staple food, i would prefer you look at feeding her something other than flakes. flakes usually do not have enough nutritions or protein in them. i use NLS Thera +A (New Life Spectrum) sinking pellets.. they have loads of garlic and other essential ingredients to maintain a healthy tract in goldfish. fresh veggies and gelfood also is ideal. but we will discuss that again when she's feeling a lot better. unless of course you would like to try and make gelfood soon(ish)? here is the goldfish food sub-forum: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/forum/12-goldfish-food/ if you have any questions on it, feel welcome to ask

[shekhina 17]

Phoebe is currently in a 20L tank as that is the only other tank I had available to separate her from the guppies who were picking on her when she became really weak. I still have to treat the three guppies who have been left in the 150L tank... but that tank is cycled so doesn't need the daily water changes. I also have a third tank with scaleless fish in it who I'm assuming I will need to treat as well (and then start making sure not to share equipment between tanks).

I am happy to change her food around, no problems... the sinking pellets sound nice and easy but also happy to try making some gel food if she'll enjoy it

[Helen 8,511]

Phoebe is currently in a 20L tank as that is the only other tank I had available to separate her from the guppies who were picking on her when she became really weak. I still have to treat the three guppies who have been left in the 150L tank... but that tank is cycled so doesn't need the daily water changes. I also have a third tank with scaleless fish in it who I'm assuming I will need to treat as well (and then start making sure not to share equipment between tanks).

ah! that's right, sorry i have been helping a few members out these past few days and i forgot we have Phoebe in a hospital tank. (i also called someone else's fish Phoebe.. and quickly edited my mistake )

I am happy to change her food around, no problems... the sinking pellets sound nice and easy but also happy to try making some gel food if she'll enjoy it

sounds good. recipes are fun and easy. just be sure to add some garlic to each batch.. it's great for her insides

[shekhina 17]

Haha, Phoebe on the brain!

Feeding her garlic makes me hungry for some really nice garlic bread

[Helen 8,511]

Haha, Phoebe on the brain!

Feeding her garlic makes me hungry for some really nice garlic bread

there is a smell of garlic in my house every day! we're Greek and Italian.. a meal is not a meal without garlic in it

[shekhina 17]

Haha I like the sound of that, yum!

[*Amanda* 556]

I'm not sure if it's available where you live, but I've found Aqua Prazi powder to be a big money saver. My fish also seem to tolerate it better than PraziPro - I gave both to the same fish at different times and she didn't even react to the Aqua Prazi, but seemed very agitated by the PraziPro, which contains other ingredients. I know you're using the tablets, but I am curious about this. I might start a thread or do some more research on this subject.

Haha, Phoebe on the brain!

Feeding her garlic makes me hungry for some really nice garlic bread

there is a smell of garlic in my house every day! we're Greek and Italian.. a meal is not a meal without garlic in it

Hehe me too! Mostly Sicilian family here.

[shekhina 17]

Looks like we'd have to order it from the US, which is very expensive. Phoebe doesn't seem agitated by the Prazi thankfully, she's still swimming about and eating today... each time I've checked on her she's been off the bottom of the tank so I think she's probably feeling a lot better already.

Even though she's been eating there's still no poo anywhere in the tank... should I be concerned or might this be normal after so long of not eating anything?

[Helen 8,511]

Looks like we'd have to order it from the US, which is very expensive. Phoebe doesn't seem agitated by the Prazi thankfully, she's still swimming about and eating today... each time I've checked on her she's been off the bottom of the tank so I think she's probably feeling a lot better already.

Even though she's been eating there's still no poo anywhere in the tank... should I be concerned or might this be normal after so long of not eating anything?

which? the AquaPrazi? if that's what you're wanting to order, forget it, you can only get it from goldfishconnection.com and they don't ship any of their products to AU or anywhere outside the USA.. the PraziPro you can get shipped over, but the Blue Planet Fluke and Tapeworm tablets crushed is 100% Praziquantel, which is the same as the AquaPrazi.

there may not be enough food in her system as yet to see poop as yet give her some time, she may be wanting to hold onto her 'energy' a little longer her staying off the bottom is definitely a good sign do you know if she wants to eat on her own now? or are we still syringe feeding?

[shekhina 17]

Yep the Blue Planet one seems to be fine, none of the fish have had a bad reaction to it as yet... although I've not dealt with the scaleless tank yet and wont until I'm sure how much to give them.

Phoebe seems happy to eat on her own now, but I think I will probably still syringe feed her at least one meal so I can be sure she's getting enough until she's as strong as she was before... she's a LOT better than she was, but still doesn't seem as strong and healthy as usual.

[Helen 8,511]

it's usually the case.. they bring us a really good start to healing that we can notice, and then the rest is done nice and slowly. sounds like a plan with the feeding and i agree, compared to what she was, she's a lot better.. you're such a good fish mummy

[shekhina 17]

Thank you, I'm certainly trying my best

Thank you so much for all you've done and all the support and information you have given me, it has been absolutely invaluable and I've no doubt Phoebe is still alive today because of it. This forum is an absolute wealth of knowledge and in a time where I felt like packing it all in with fish I'm now hopeful I can turn my tanks around and make them a healthy place.

[Helen 8,511]

Thank you, I'm certainly trying my best

Thank you so much for all you've done and all the support and information you have given me, it has been absolutely invaluable and I've no doubt Phoebe is still alive today because of it. This forum is an absolute wealth of knowledge and in a time where I felt like packing it all in with fish I'm now hopeful I can turn my tanks around and make them a healthy place.

[Helen 8,511]

how is Phoebe? i hope all is well

[shekhina 17]

Phoebe is still doing well, thank you!

We have poop finally yesterday, I tried to get a photo but it's really tricky when she's swimming about all the time. There was the one in the photo, but there was also another one which looked like a casing with very small amount of green (pea I suppose) in it... but mostly it was empty.

This one looks quite empty too?