No idea what is wrong with my fish, please help

[shekhina 17]

• Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0 in main tank, now present in hospital tank
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) <20
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) ph - 6.8, gh - 15, kh - 20
  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? ammonia is API liquid, others are API strips
    • * Water temperature? 24 degrees C
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 150L
    • * How often do you change the water and how much? bi-weekly, 25-30%

• * How many fish in the tank and their size? one goldfish, 3 guppies
• * What kind of water additives or conditioners? seachem Prime
• * What do you feed your fish and how often? daily flakes
• * Any medications added to the tank? Kusuri (in case of parasites, flukes etc.) have tried triple sulfa which didn't seem to help, now on tetracycline (after removing TS) but doesn't seem to be helping either
• * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Please see photos

Hello,

I am having an issue with my goldfish. About a week ago she started hanging out at the bottom of the tank but was still eating well and swimming about a bit. Over the last week her condition has deteriorated and she has now not eaten for the last four days and sits at the bottom of the tank not moving.

She is breathing faster than normal (and sometimes gets a shudder as she breathes) and has red through her fins and one of her fins is torn quite badly. She looks like she's lost weight and her scales look a bit odd... sort of like some are missing, or have a weird coating over them. There is no fluffy stuff on her body, it's more slime like and changing to a lighter colour in places)

I've moved her into a hospital tank (water taken from main tank) and am currently using tetracycline (after trisulfa didn't seem to work). There is now ammonia present in the hospital tank which I know isn't going to be helping things... however there was no ammonia present in the main tank. I'm doing a 25% water change every day before adding in the medication and she has a heater (24 degrees celsius) and an air stone.

Other test results are:

GH: 15

KH: 20

ph: 6.8

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: <20

These are the same in both the hospital tank and the main tank.

What is happening to her? Obviously ammonia isn't helping the situation now, but that wasn't there to start with. How should I be treating her?

Photos from when first unwell:

And from tonight, getting worse:

[koko 14,366]

Can you check your Tap water reading for me

[shekhina 17]

I have no test strips left unfortunately, I used the last one tonight. But when I have tested it previously the pH was slightly above neutral and 0 for all the others.

[koko 14,366]

I have no test strips left unfortunately, I used the last one tonight. But when I have tested it previously the pH was slightly above neutral and 0 for all the others.

OK hun.... Can you take your tap water to the LFS and have them test it...

The reason is 6.8 PH is kinda low for goldfish. If your KH is low and your PH is low this can cause the problems.... SO please when you can please do this for me...

Also Have you ever treated your fish with Prazi?

[shekhina 17]

Yes I questioned the pH at the shop but he didn't seem too concerned about it.

I treated the tank with Kusuri, not prazi... are they similar?

[koko 14,366]

Yes I questioned the pH at the shop but he didn't seem too concerned about it.

I treated the tank with Kusuri, not prazi... are they similar?

Which Kusuri?

yeah LFS are in it for the money, so if your fish dies you get another one...the win....not here....

So if you can please get the ph and kh tested for me....tank and tap....if you can it buy a test kit off of http://www.amazon.com/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit/dp/B000255NCI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405619089&sr=8-1&keywords=test+kit+aquatic

[*Amanda* 556]

I noticed you are only changing 25-30% of your water every 2 weeks in your main tank. It would be much better to do a weekly water change of no less than 50% (75-95% would be great). Clean water is the best preventive treatment.

For your quarantine tank, you will probably need to change 100% of the water daily. You didn't mention how big the QT tank is or how big the goldfish is, but in most cases this is necessary to keep the ammonia at 0, unless the fish is extremely small and the tank is big. If you could provide these details, along with the ammonia result you are getting in the QT tank, that would help us determine what is needed.

I wish you the best of luck in treating your fish; you came to the right place!

[koko 14,366]

I noticed you are only changing 25-30% of your water every 2 weeks in your main tank. It would be much better to do a weekly water change of no less than 50% (75-95% would be great). Clean water is the best preventive treatment.

For your quarantine tank, you will probably need to change 100% of the water daily. You didn't mention how big the QT tank is or how big the goldfish is, but in most cases this is necessary to keep the ammonia at 0, unless the fish is extremely small and the tank is big. If you could provide these details, along with the ammonia result you are getting in the QT tank, that would help us determine what is needed.

I wish you the best of luck in treating your fish; you came to the right place!

Sorry Justine happened. Thank you

Also I would suggest getting him out of that med now....Can you get a video I want to see how hes acting.

[DawnMichele 6,045]

Hope he feels better.

[Helen 8,511]

where in AU are you, hun?

[shekhina 17]

Thank you so much for all the replies, I really appreciate it.

The Kusuri I treated with says it does flukes and parasites.

The quarantine tank is very small unfortunately, around 20L, but I have nothing bigger. I did another water change last night before I went to bed and another 60% change again today. I am about to go and test the ammonia again to see if it's coming down. Are changes bigger than that OK, as in wont stress her out even more if the water is changing so much so quickly?

Last night after posting this I noticed one of the guppies in the main tank has been hiding away and when he came out he had a white thing hanging from his bottom... it was thick and didn't look like poo... it might have been poo I guess but it had gone by this morning and I did see normal coloured poo earlier today.

I asked a vet and they have given me metronidazole because they think it might be hexamita.

I'm in Tasmania

[Helen 8,511]

that's great.. since that is what i was going to help you with.. at cost. so, if you are unable to get it from the Vet.. ok?

good luck & keep us updated either way

[shekhina 17]

That's so lovely of you, thank you!

Fortunately I have a great vet who was happy to give me the medication without having to worry about a consultation or script writing fee.

I have put the metronizadole into the tank earlier today and for now she seems much the same... hopefully there will be an improvement really soon because I don't know how much longer she's got otherwise I did see her flashing tonight and that's new... at least every other time I've checked on her (which is every couple of hours max to ensure the heater doesn't malfunction... had that happen before...) she has only sort of tried to swim over to me, no freaking out or flashing. I hope that doesn't mean she's getting worse or we've got the wrong medication in or something.

[Helen 8,511]

that's so awesome of your vet to help out like that could you tell me the treatment plan you did with the kusuri?

[shekhina 17]

Yes, they're wonderful

My sister gave me a Kusuri pack, it says Wormer Plus (aquatic fish wormer, fluke and parasite killer). I used this while Phoebe was still in the main tank which is 150L. I added one level scoop of the powder (which is 0.3g/0.5ml) to some tank water and shook it to combine. Then I added it slowly into the main tank over about 4 minutes or so. I did just one treatment. The pouch does say in heavy infestations that it can be used again after 4 days, however I haven't done that as yet as to be honest I am super unsure what I'm dealing with here and just trying to do the very best I can to save her

[Helen 8,511]

rocky is 9+ years old.. she's been through quite a few 'trying times' in my care, but she never before displayed what you see here:

i tried the yellow powder (which is an antibiotic) and she didn't improve. i then was able to set up my microscope and found that she had an infestation of flukes. they came from having introduced some pearlscales to the main tank. i had QT'd the pearlscales for 4 weeks, it seems not all the flukes were gone.

after seeing under the microscope what the problem is, i treated with Blue Planet Flukes and Tapeworm Tablets.. in addition to the Metronidazole i decided using. both these treatments together made such a difference that she had almost healed from her ordeal in 2 days. i kept Rocky in QT for 3.5 weeks. i continued to treat with the Prazi product during this time. she's now joined the others in the main tank and doing extremely well

would your Vet be able to microscope some slime coat from your fish to see if perhaps she has flukes?

[shekhina 17]

I'm glad Rocky is better, what a beautiful fish

I don't see why the vet wouldn't have a look under the microscope for me... they did ask for me to let them know either way what happened because they were quite interested (I guess they don't get a lot of fish patients!). However, how would I go about getting a sample for them? Phoebe is so unwell I get nervous changing her water let alone handling her. Should I worry that she hasn't eaten in a long time? How long can she go before starvation becomes an issue?

[Helen 8,511]

thank you.. as is Phoebe

i would transport Phoebe to the vet and have them do a slime coat scrape there. it is very important that the sample is investigated almost immediately after it has left the fish for best results. you may want to call the Vet and tell them what your intentions are so that they can be prepared to do a slime coat scrape. see on youtube on the 'how to' that's the best guide and how i learned from my own observations, i find the slimecoat to be the thickest at the base of the dorsal running from head to tail. let the vet know that it is very ok to take a small snippet of the actual tail (where the blood smears are present) to microscope if they are unsure of how to do a slime coat scrape. don't worry, it will grow back in a few weeks with pristine water

whilst they're at it, they can microscope some poop why not?

how long has it been since Phoebe has eaten? is she just totally not interested or just that she can't. ie, does she try by sucking the food in and then spitting it out? or is she not interested at all?

[shekhina 17]

Unfortunately there is no poop to microscope, she hasn't passed anything for days now and hasn't eaten at all for 4-5 days but had been eating a little the couple of days before that and eating normally before that again.

When she was still eating a little she would try to eat, but seemed to not have the energy to keep trying for more than a few seconds. Now she isn't interested in it at all.

The vet is only open for a few hours tomorrow I believe. I have one of those fish transport bags here I could take her in... but how do I keep the temperature up for the duration of the trip? It's a 20 minute car ride there, then they'd need to do the scraping etc. and another 20 minutes back home. We'd be lucky to have it all done in a bit over an hour. I'm very, very nervous about stressing her out and killing her, but I know it's important to figure out what's going on.

Edited July 18, 2014 by shekhina

[Helen 8,511]

when i had to transport my fish one winter from one side of melbourne to another, i used a tub which was filled only 1/4. underneath the tub i had a hot water bottle wrapped in bath towels so that it distributed the heat evenly. i then had all that sitting on a plastic drop sheet on the back seat of my car, i used the seat belt to hold the bucket upright & to keep it from moving a lot. then you just drive like a granny..

[shekhina 17]

I've got the bucket I use for water changes, I could transport her in that. My husband could drive so I could hold it steady. I don't have a hot water bottle but I do have one of those wheat pack things I could put underneath the bucket.

[Helen 8,511]

sounds like a plan keep us updated

i am wondering, since this has worked for my fish and other members on the forum.. if we can make a pasty gel food and syringe feed her? a few days of this is usually enough to bring the appetite back.

usually if a fish is giving up,, it's resting on it's side in a 'C' shape position and refusing food of any sort. however, on a few occasions, i found that depending on what the issue is, syringe feeding can bring enough energy back to continue the fight.

i have a video on it, if this interests you. if you don't have a syringe at home, perhaps you can ask one from the clinic when you go?

[shekhina 17]

I actually had a look at some of your videos in your signature and thought it might be an idea to try and feed Phoebe. Why do you use Epsom salts with the peas? I do have syringes here and salts (although it's aquarium salt, is that OK?) and peas so could put something together. How much does handling stress fish out? She's not on her side, she's still sitting upright for now.

Edited July 18, 2014 by shekhina

[*Amanda* 556]

That's so lovely of you, thank you!

Fortunately I have a great vet who was happy to give me the medication without having to worry about a consultation or script writing fee.

I have put the metronizadole into the tank earlier today and for now she seems much the same... hopefully there will be an improvement really soon because I don't know how much longer she's got otherwise I did see her flashing tonight and that's new... at least every other time I've checked on her (which is every couple of hours max to ensure the heater doesn't malfunction... had that happen before...) she has only sort of tried to swim over to me, no freaking out or flashing. I hope that doesn't mean she's getting worse or we've got the wrong medication in or something.

Thank you so much for all the replies, I really appreciate it.

The Kusuri I treated with says it does flukes and parasites.

The quarantine tank is very small unfortunately, around 20L, but I have nothing bigger. I did another water change last night before I went to bed and another 60% change again today. I am about to go and test the ammonia again to see if it's coming down. Are changes bigger than that OK, as in wont stress her out even more if the water is changing so much so quickly?

Last night after posting this I noticed one of the guppies in the main tank has been hiding away and when he came out he had a white thing hanging from his bottom... it was thick and didn't look like poo... it might have been poo I guess but it had gone by this morning and I did see normal coloured poo earlier today.

I asked a vet and they have given me metronidazole because they think it might be hexamita.

I'm in Tasmania

Regular, larger water changes will not stress the fish out. They need clean water, especially in QT. I change 95% every week on my main tank and 100% every day in QT. I had heard the same thing, too, when I started - that big water changes were bad. The only way they can be bad is if someone lets their tank go, not changing the water for months on end, the pH drops in the tank, and suddenly a huge water change is done and the pH is now drastically greater than what the fish were used to. But if you change your water every week, the pH will not drop.

Also, some people have very low or very high pH in their tap water and may need to alter it, but these folks are in the minority. Most of us have tap water between 7 and 8 pH, which happens to be ideal for goldfish, as long as it stays relatively constant.

Edited July 18, 2014 by *Amanda*

[shekhina 17]

Oh that is good to know, thank you. I will do a 100% water change in the QT tank tomorrow before putting in the next lot of metronidazole